Jdb case

[The Damo]

Ahhh Damo ya got this completely wrong. It has everything thing to do with it. And this is why each case is determined individually. A blanket 11 years to be suspended is not right either. Matters can be upgraded and downgraded. Imagine the turmoil that would cause. This policy is fraught with danger to all involved. Back to the drawing board for the NRL

Ahh Nope - it’s 100% correct that a bail hearing makes zero determination on likelihood of conviction. Google it friendo. And then consider how you can be so sure of any of your opinions when you’ve got this very basic fact 100% wrong.

And nah it wouldn’t cause turmoil at all if a charge was downgraded. It simply goes from automatic suspension to CEO’s discretion.

 

[2218]

Ahh Nope - it’s 100% correct that a bail hearing makes zero determination on likelihood of conviction. Google it friendo. And then consider how you can be so sure of any of your opinions when you’ve got this very basic fact 100% wrong.

And nah it wouldn’t cause turmoil at all if a charge was downgraded. It simply goes from automatic suspension to CEO’s discretion.

Ok if you are at a bail hearing you have already been refused bail and are making application for bail by a higher authority. So someone has already deemed you sufficient a risk to be refused. However the bail act states that consideration be given to the strength of the prosecution case ie likelyhood of conviction. The person determining bail will look at the evidence available and if it is damning that would go amongst other considerations but would lean towards refusal. If the evidence is weak but enough to establish Prima facie once again along with other considerations lean towards bail. Now that is similar to how the NRL deals with things currently and I think is more appropriate than the policy they intend to introduce. Sure it may need some tweaking.

Now it’s not so simple as the CEO discretion. Example a club has a player suspended and that club is on the salary cap and player max. They bring in an equal player at the suspended players value. The suspended player has his charge downgraded to a charge less than 11 years penalty and is able to play. What happens to the club in relation to salary cap and players on the book? Just one example.

 

[2218]

*Deleted*

Slayer he definitely wants to be given the option to play and no doubt he and his legal team think the new policy is shite and should be scrapped. My opinion is that if he is given the green light to play he will do so. He appears on the front foot taking on the nrl in court and his protest of innocence. I think it would be far more stressful playing this out in the media than the crowds and opposition could dish up. He would have all the club and teammates rallying around him and he just loves playing footy. Getting closer to the court date I’m not so sure

 

[getsmarty]

Dragons want NRL to pay up for a Jack de Belin replacement as no-fault rule finally drafted
Dragons

• March 10, 2019 12:42pm
• by Staff writers with AAP
• Source: AAP

St George Illawarra Dragons player Jack de Belin is suing the NRL over his playing ban.Source: AAP
The Dragons are demanding the NRL foot the bill for Jack de Belin’s replacement if his legal bid to overturn the game’s ‘no-fault’ standown isn’t granted.

According to Fairfax, the Dragons have asked the NRL to bear the cost of replacing banned players, under the idea that the ‘no-fault’ rule would have a greater impact on clubs in a less financially secure position.

While the Dragons wait to see if de Belin’s bid to overturn his NRL ordered suspension is granted, it’s believed neither the Panthers or Manly will apply for salary cap exemption for Tyrone May and Dylan Walker, both of whom have also been banned by the new policy.

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Round 1
Meanwhile, the NRL’s new no-fault stand-down policy is one step closer to being enacted with ARL Commissioners to meet on Monday to approve the rule.

Just a day after the Federal Court ruled de Belin was technically not yet stood down as the rule hadn’t been enacted, the ARL Commission (ARLC) received a draft of it on Friday night.

Commissioners have spent the weekend considering the details of the new rule and will come together on Monday to discuss its approval.

St George Illawarra Dragons player Jack de Belin is suing the NRL over his playing ban.Source: AAP
“It will then be implemented. It will be in place before the season starts,” ARL Commission chairman Peter Beattie said.


“When the Commission announced its stance on February 28, it had always intended that the necessary changes in the rules would need to be finalised in consultation with our legal advisers, recognising that the applicable new rules would be in place prior to the start of the season.”

Beattie announced last month the rule will include players being automatically stood down if charged with a crime that faces a sentence of 11 years or more, while chief executive Todd Greenberg will have discretionary powers to sideline players charged with other offences.

NRL CEO Todd Greenberg (left) and ARLC Chairman Peter Beattie (right) chat ahead of the 2019 NRL Season Launch in Sydney.Source: AAP
Essentially, it means de Belin will again be stood down on Monday if and when the rule is approved, as will Walker and May under the discretionary powers.

All will remain on full pay and be able to continue training with their respective teams, as per the original details announced by Beattie and Greenberg.

It will come just three days before the season kicks off and before de Belin’s case against the NRL returns to court on Thursday morning.

There, it’s expected that de Belin will try and stop the ARLC and NRL from implementing the rule, in turn allowing him to play until his court case on an aggravated sexual assault charge is complete.

The NSW State of Origin lock has strenuously denied the charge from an alleged incident last December and pleaded not guilty in a Wollongong court in February.

Jack de Belin in action for the Dragons.Source: Getty Images
The 27-year-old is also attempting to sue the league on the basis it did not have the power to stand him down late last month, and claims the NRL engaged in misleading and deceptive conduct.

Beattie last week admitted his job as ARLC chairman was on the line over his determination to fix the cultural and behaviour issues plaguing the game.

But the former Queensland Premier told sponsors at Thursday night’s season launch to stick with the code as the new rules would work.


https://www.foxsports.com.au/nrl/nr...y/news-story/ceac1c224ce9f6a7320c2d19617d948f

 

[2218]

I reckon this is a great move by the club to put it back onto the NRL if it’s correct reporting. If it is correct reporting did the dragons ask or demand?

 

[Dragons 09]

What does this actually mean? "The Dragons are demanding the NRL foot the bill for Jack de Belin’s replacement if his legal bid to overturn the game’s ‘no-fault’ standown isn’t granted."

I might just be interpreting it wrong, but if "Jacks legal bid to overturn the standown is granted" doesn't that mean that Jack would be able to play? If Jack is allowed to play but Dragons are wanting money from the NRL to find a replacement for him, is that suggesting the club will stand him down if he beats the NRL in court and will need to find a replacement for him?

Someone set me straight, i'm sure my brain is not computing correctly at the moment.

 

[2012....Sharks Year]

What does this actually mean? "The Dragons are demanding the NRL foot the bill for Jack de Belin’s replacement if his legal bid to overturn the game’s ‘no-fault’ standown isn’t granted."

I might just be interpreting it wrong, but if "Jacks legal bid to overturn the standown is granted" doesn't that mean that Jack would be able to play? If Jack is allowed to play but Dragons are wanting money from the NRL to find a replacement for him, is that suggesting the club will stand him down if he beats the NRL in court and will need to find a replacement for him?

Someone set me straight, i'm sure my brain is not computing correctly at the moment.

Bingo....Dragons will be compensated if JDB is stood down by the Nrl but it will get a bit tricky if they are forced to do it themselves. Best result for you guys is Jack gets stood down under the no fault rule rather than having to do it yourselves. Can someone please explain this to Willow?

 

[2218]

Bingo....Dragons will be compensated if JDB is stood down by the Nrl but it will get a bit tricky if they are forced to do it themselves. Best result for you guys is Jack gets stood down under the no fault rule rather than having to do it yourselves. Can someone please explain this to Willow?

We will stand down jack when you stand down your tainted premiership

 

[possm]

What does this actually mean? "The Dragons are demanding the NRL foot the bill for Jack de Belin’s replacement if his legal bid to overturn the game’s ‘no-fault’ standown isn’t granted."

I might just be interpreting it wrong, but if "Jacks legal bid to overturn the standown is granted" doesn't that mean that Jack would be able to play? If Jack is allowed to play but Dragons are wanting money from the NRL to find a replacement for him, is that suggesting the club will stand him down if he beats the NRL in court and will need to find a replacement for him?

Someone set me straight, i'm sure my brain is not computing correctly at the moment.

I have mentioned in other posts that, if the ARLC/NRL decide to implement a rule that will stand down a player, then they should take full responsibility for this actions; that includes financial and legal responsibility.

It is essentially unfair for the ARLC/NRL to make such a rule and have the Club bare the financial and legal burden. As the rule dictates a stand sown on full pay but does not compensate for salary cap relating to the subject player or the legal responsibility to defend such action, the ARLC/NRL are implementing a policy that is not responsible.

The player is contracted to a club and that contract is registered by the NRL so, the player is an employee of the club.

The proposed rule is not included on any current player contracts. I'd say this rule would need to be included on a player's contract prior to it being able to be used.

 

[Obi Wan]

It's refreshing to hear a top female lawyer and rape victims' advocate presenting her views on why Jack should play, don't see much of the other voice of reason in our papers.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...-says-accused-NRL-rapist-Jack-Belin-play.html

 

[Willow]

What does this actually mean? "The Dragons are demanding the NRL foot the bill for Jack de Belin’s replacement if his legal bid to overturn the game’s ‘no-fault’ standown isn’t granted."

I might just be interpreting it wrong, but if "Jacks legal bid to overturn the standown is granted" doesn't that mean that Jack would be able to play? If Jack is allowed to play but Dragons are wanting money from the NRL to find a replacement for him, is that suggesting the club will stand him down if he beats the NRL in court and will need to find a replacement for him?

Someone set me straight, i'm sure my brain is not computing correctly at the moment.

There's a bit of paraphrasing going on in the article.

The next line (not in bold) is probably more accurate:
the Dragons have asked the NRL to bear the cost of replacing banned players

This would or could be applied to all Clubs that have a player stood down.

The ARLC aren't 100% on this yet, and Beattie himself admits that it may ultimately cost him his job.

But we still have a mind reader in here trying to predict the future.

 

[Pablooo]

It's refreshing to hear a top female lawyer and rape victims' advocate presenting her views on why Jack should play, don't see much of the other voice of reason in our papers.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...-says-accused-NRL-rapist-Jack-Belin-play.html

Says a lot when someone like Margret Cuneen an ex Dpp star comes out in suppprt of the notion innocent until proven guilty. She is a well respected silk who doesn’t mix words or suffer fools. She now represents Ian McDonald who was jailed on false evidence and later released with his conviction quashed.

 

[2012....Sharks Year]

Not about being a mind reader Willow. You are spot on...St.George bank are sticking behind the iconic Dragons brand. If you don't think there is a recent condition placed on this ongoing support I'd suggest you're being a little naive. Rightly or wrongly Jack won't be playing for the Dragons until he is aquitted or otherwise. Was never here to stir up shit...actually feel sorry for your club and supporters having to endure this on the eve of a new season. As a Sharks supporter i have experienced similar emotions during the Todd Carney, Greg Bird and Buster Seymour situations. Unfortunately with the way the court system works this will not be a quick solution. I only hope that the Dragons have put in place adequate support structures for Jack and his family in the interim.

 

[Obi Wan]

Says a lot when someone like Margret Cuneen an ex Dpp star comes out in suppprt of the notion innocent until proven guilty. She is a well respected silk who doesn’t mix words or suffer fools. She now represents Ian McDonald who was jailed on false evidence and later released with his conviction quashed.

I think it says allot about the Australian media, the fact that even though she's such a well respected Australian, it was only published in the UK because she presents a view that opposes the unlawful objective of much of the media here.

 

[Willow]

Not about being a mind reader Willow. You are spot on...St.George bank are sticking behind the iconic Dragons brand. If you don't think there is a recent condition placed on this ongoing support I'd suggest you're being a little naive.

OK, tell us what is this "recent condition" that St George Bank have brought in. Seriously, unless you've got something tangible to back this up then you're just making it up as you go along.

But hey, if you're going to start making assumptions, then at least consider the following questions....

Why would there need to be any alterations to the agreement? What makes you think they don't already have contingencies in place? Have you ever seen a complex contract or agreement?

They are usually weighed down heavily with standard clauses and not so standard clauses to cover a whole raft of scenarios.

Naive? lol

Rightly or wrongly Jack won't be playing for the Dragons until he is aquitted or otherwise.

Maybe, maybe not. But I would suggest that if it is 'otherwise', Jack won't be playing for anyone. But I'll leave the crystal ball gazing to you.

Was never here to stir up shit...

Haha... Yeah, sure.

actually feel sorry for your club and supporters having to endure this on the eve of a new season.

Yes, we really need someone to feel sorry for us. Saccharine sweet springs to mind.

Save your pity for your own team after they get toweled up in round 11.

As a Sharks supporter i have experienced similar emotions during the Todd Carney, Greg Bird and Buster Seymour situations. Unfortunately with the way the court system works this will not be a quick solution. I only hope that the Dragons have put in place adequate support structures for Jack and his family in the interim.

Thank you for sharing your emotions.

 

[2012....Sharks Year]

OK, tell us what is this "recent condition" that St George Bank have brought in. Seriously, unless you've got something tangible to back this up then you're just making it up as you go along.

But hey, if you're going to start making assumptions, then at least consider the following questions....

Why would there need to be any alterations to the agreement? What makes you think they don't already have contingencies in place? Have you ever seen a complex contract or agreement?

They are usually weighed down heavily with standard clauses and not so standard clauses to cover a whole raft of scenarios.

Naive? lol

Maybe, maybe not. But I would suggest that if it is 'otherwise', Jack won't be playing for anyone. But I'll leave the crystal ball gazing to you. Haha... Yeah, sure.Yes, we really need someone to feel sorry for us. Saccharine sweet springs to mind.

Save your pity for your own team after they get toweled up in round 11.Thank you for sharing your emotions.

Dear oh dear....somebody has lost their shit...best you keep your head in the sand. Enjoy the season ahead.

 

[Willow]

Says a lot when someone like Margret Cuneen an ex Dpp star comes out in suppprt of the notion innocent until proven guilty. She is a well respected silk who doesn’t mix words or suffer fools. She now represents Ian McDonald who was jailed on false evidence and later released with his conviction quashed.

The points she raises shouldn't even need to be debated, but here we are.

She believed the NRL had to support the fundamental principle of the presumption of innocence and said standing down players before they had their day in court could not be justified.
...
'We really mustn't accept these things unquestioningly because otherwise we erode the presumption of innocence which we are all entitled to.'

"...in the recent case of Jack de Belin he was given bail, which seems to suggest that he is not regarded as a danger to the community,' she said.

'The legal system has made that determination and the NRL could equally decide he is not a danger to any woman while he is playing a game of football under the eyes of so many people.'

The whole article:
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...-says-accused-NRL-rapist-Jack-Belin-play.html

 

[Willow]

Dear oh deah....somebody has lost their shit...best you keep your head in the sand. Enjoy the season ahead.

And there we have it, the self righteous cop out. You've simply been confronted with an alternative viewpoint.

I note that you didn't answer any of the questions, but I'm not surprised.

Never mind, you still have your crystal ball.

 

[possm]

And there we have it, the self righteous cop out. You've simply been confronted with an alternative viewpoint.

I note that you didn't answer any of the questions, but I'm not surprised.

Never mind, you still have your crystal ball.

I just hope De Belin will be cleared to play in round 1 and that Beattie and Greenburg resign shortly after the decision is handed down by the couts on Thursday.

 

[st penguin]

Says a lot when someone like Margret Cuneen an ex Dpp star comes out in suppprt of the notion innocent until proven guilty. She is a well respected silk who doesn’t mix words or suffer fools. She now represents Ian McDonald who was jailed on false evidence and later released with his conviction quashed.

FFS, false evidence? I swear to god people here just make stuff up.