Jdb case

[blacksafake]

Can we all just settle down & let all this play out where it should, in the courts.
I’m far from being a lawyer but due process needs to happen so the truth can be found out one way or the other. There are families involved in this case who deserve respect. For all those who wish to argue or disagree, how about we do it over a game, player, selection, decision, L plate, the board etc.

 

[Morotti]

Can we all just settle down & let all this play out where it should, in the courts.
I’m far from being a lawyer but due process needs to happen so the truth can be found out one way or the other. There are families involved in this case who deserve respect. For all those who wish to argue or disagree, how about we do it over a game, player, selection, decision, L plate, the board etc.

Tend to agree. Seems like a lot of this is off the topic at hand.

Which I believe to be whether there is justification for the nrl's decision to enact a rule that allows them to stand down players for serious offences whilst awaiting judgment.

 

[blacksafake]

Nah, not a lawyer, nor do I play one on tv. Not a spy either, though if the nrl wants to put me on the payroll I’m game.
On the NRL rule stuff it’s just my opinion, but I like to base my opinions on evidence and I read a lot.
On the sexual assault stuff I’ve got more experience, I’ve worked with people with disabilities for 20 years, and in that time I’ve supported more than a few victims, and a few perpetrators through the process of allegations, charges, trial, therapy for the trauma and rehabilitation after release from prison. So not a lawyer but I know how the system works in a practical sense.
I am also a relative, friend and partner to multiple people who’ve been assaulted, and know how harmful some of the attitudes expressed in this thread are. Which is why I push back on them even when I know the person is acting in bad faith.

You’re a good person Damo & I can only admire & appreciate you on your chosen career.

 

[ST Tangles 01]

Can we all just settle down & let all this play out where it should, in the courts.
I’m far from being a lawyer but due process needs to happen so the truth can be found out one way or the other. There are families involved in this case who deserve respect. For all those who wish to argue or disagree, how about we do it over a game, player, selection, decision, L plate, the board etc.

Spot on.
People need to remember they don't have to agree with each other but there is a way to debate without abuse.
Not that anyone has abused me nor I them and I've had differing opinions on a few of the posts.

 

[rasaint]

From the get go on this issue I have never commented on the actual police charge led against JDB, nor the court case. That is for the legal process to decide.

Now to the NRL policy.

I have reasoned simply on the means that the NRL have dealt with the matter. As I understand the NRL had a policy negotiated with clubs and the players union that players charged with a crime would be considered innocent until proven guilty by the court process. The charged players would continue playing until any guilty verdict was reached. That was the policy. Innocent until proven guilty is a long standing legal tenet.

Then I read newspaper scuttlebutt ( I think the Tele.) that indicated that the NRL ‘heavyweights’ wasn’t it Nick Politis, Melbourne CEO? apparently picked up up the phone to Beattie and Greenberg and wanted stand down action against JBD regardless of the existing policy on these issues. Next both Beattie and Greenberg certainly came out commenting about the matter and also advising of a hasty policy change which would be retrospectively applied against JDB. It is my gut feeling that the other stand downs against I think Dylan Walker and someone else was a ‘smoke screen’ for appearances that this retrospective policy was not aimed at JBD. (BTW judge Rares noted there wasn’t even the new policy in place when JDB 1st went to the Federal court!).

I am not saying that JDB will win his bid to be back playing in the Federal Court. I think he is up against it still. However, the new lady Federal Court judge has noted that some of the NRL’s case is weak and not even admissible, going on today’s report.

Brian Johnston our CEO has been sensible and dignified in this matter with his comments and approach which I believe is a credit to him and the Dragons. Yes, the same Brian Johnston who gave back his last year contract money to StG when he was affected by a chronic injury saying ‘ a contract has to be fair to both parties’. An honable guy.

In a nutshell, stick to your word when you put a policy in place and don’t capriously and hastily change to something rushed and retrospective. Cheers all.

 

[getsmarty]

NRL had no evidence of De Belin behaviour before introducing 'no fault' policy

• Dragons Den
  
  
  
  Challenge: Jack De Belin. Picture: AAP Image/Peter Rae
• 
  
• NRL CEO Todd Greenberg has been forced to admit he had no evidence of Jack de Belin misbehaving before he was controversially stood down.
  
  The game's boss took the stand in the Federal Court on Tuesday as the St George Illawarra forward's challenge to the game's "no fault" stand-down policy continued.
  
  De Belin is suing the ARL Commission and the NRL after he was stood down under the game's controversial new rules which were penned on February 28 and rubber-stamped in March.
  
  De Belin's barrister Martin Einfeld grilled Greenberg on his motivations for introducing the new rules.
  
  Despite sitting in the court in the morning, De Belin was not present during Greenberg's two hours of testimony in the afternoon.
  
  The Dragons star was stood down indefinitely after he was charged with the aggravated sexual assault of a 19-year-old woman.
  
  He has pleaded not guilty and the case is scheduled to be mentioned in Wollongong Local Court on Wednesday.
  
  Under the "no fault" rules, the game can stand down any player charged with a serious crime which carries a jail term of 11 years or more.
  
  Einfeld argued that Greenberg and the game had no right to stand him down given they had no evidence of his conduct.
  
  "The only evidence I had was the charge he was facing," Greenberg said.
  
  Einfeld pointed to a February 27 tweet by ARL Commission chairman Peter Beattie in which he said: "De Belin is innocent unless proven guilty. Neither I, nor the ARLC & NRL are in possession of any evidence that enable us to form a view on this matter."
  
  Greenberg responded: "Our chairman does tweet a quite a bit."
  
  The day prior to the February 28 ARL Commission meeting during which the rules were drafted, Greenberg met with De Belin at St George Leagues Club at Kogarah.
  
  It was there that he urged him to stand down on his own so that the game did not have to impose a ban.
  
  Greenberg presented the NSW State of Origin lock with a draft statement written under De Belin's name which he himself could release in the hope that it would convince him to step away from his playing duties voluntarily.
  
  "I was hopeful in my discussions that he would see merit in making the decision himself," Greenberg said.
  
  "If that was his position, I could assist him with the narrative publicly.
  
  "But it was clear in my discussions that was not his position."
  
  Greenberg argued that he acted to protect the image of the game, corporate support, broadcast revenues and participation rates, in particular female player numbers.
  
  Pushed on whether the misbehaviour of NRL players would affect the attitudes of the game's 175,000 male and female participants, Greenberg said: "I would absolutely assert that is the case."
  
  Greenberg's testimony will continue on Wednesday.

https://www.illawarramercury.com.au...r-before-introducing-no-fault-policy/?cs=3713

 

[Ronnie Dobbs]

Not a very good one.

Yeah. That’s what Im getting at.

Beattie is the biggest bullshit artist I’ve ever heard. He is a mouthpiece for sale. No idea. Just a flat out talking head.

 

[JamesRustle]

Beattie is a lawyer.

Dennis Denuto would own his arse.

And poor Peter would be oblivious to it, smiling away like a toothy gibbon.

 

[Ronnie Dobbs]

And poor Peter would be oblivious to it, smiling away like a toothy gibbon.

And he’s our chairman.

These people are stupid.

 

[JamesRustle]

And he’s our chairman.

These people are stupid.

I think Greenberg was saying that in his coded message "Our chairman does tweet a quite a bit." - if that's the best thing he can say about him, then there is a fracturing of co-alignment at the top.

 

[rednwhites]

Nice suit JDB. 3 year extension.

 

[possm]

I say when looking at this subject members should ask themselves, would this policy be brought into effect if the subject player was from the Storm, Roosters, Broncos or Dogs?

If this new rule is thrown out today, Beattie, Greenburg some backroom operatives should resign.

 

[st penguin]

I say when looking at this subject members should ask themselves, would this policy be brought into effect if the subject player was from the Storm, Roosters, Broncos or Dogs?

If this new rule is thrown out today, Beattie, Greenburg some backroom operatives should resign.

Let's look at it a slightly different way. Imagine JDB is cleared to play the Anzac game.

Do you think he would cop abuse from the crowd? Would he be booed every time he touches the ball? Would it happen every away game? Would it be bad publicity for an accused rapist to pull on a Women in League jersey?

Sure, innocent until proven guilty. But from a purely business perspective, to protect NRL brand, I can see why Beattie and co are trying to avoid having JDB on the field.

 

[Mr Angry]

I would cheer, right now he is accused not convicted.

 

[The Damo]

I would cheer, right now he is accused not convicted.

Genuine question - how would you feel having cheered if he ends up convicted? Dunno if you’ve got kids but If so, how would you feel having them cheer if he’s convicted?
I don’t think there’s a right or wrong answer to that question , but I do think it’s worth fans asking themselves.

 

[Mr Angry]

Would have no issue at all, the system has been working. Innocent until found guilty. If guilty he will go to jail, rape is a serious crime with serious concequences in this country.

Let the system do its job.

The NRL are reactionary fools who think they are above the law.

 

[Willow]

Let's look at it a slightly different way. Imagine JDB is cleared to play the Anzac game.

Do you think he would cop abuse from the crowd? Would he be booed every time he touches the ball? Would it happen every away game? Would it be bad publicity for an accused rapist to pull on a Women in League jersey?

Sure, innocent until proven guilty. But from a purely business perspective, to protect NRL brand, I can see why Beattie and co are trying to avoid having JDB on the field.

You're asking a few good questions and we don't know the answers. But I'm willing to bet that any boos from the crowd will be drowned out by the cheers, if JDB is allowed to play.

Why do I think this? Well, firstly, the early outrage has largely passed, that's normal as the public reach a point of news fatigue. With things settling down, some people will look at it differently and find that they are more accepting of the presumption of innocence in this case.

We also know that some of the early media reports have been just outright speculation. We had the bizarre 'poll' done by News Corp, and that has run its course.

IMHO, loads of people are either tuning out or are distracted by something else... and there's a plenty of non-JDB news about.

I have to disagree about the NRL brand being damaged. It has always been a knee jerk reaction brought about media led outrage. As it stands, the NRL's claims to this end are being tested in court as we speak.

 

[giboz71]

Would have no issue at all, the system has been working. Innocent until found guilty. If guilty he will go to jail, rape is a serious crime with serious concequences in this country.

Let the system do its job.

The NRL are reactionary fools who think they are above the law.

Exactly.

At least wait till he's tried and convicted before throwing the book at him. If he's guilty, he'll have other more pressing worries other then footy.

Whether he should be allowed to keep playing until the trial can be debated forever. I have heard good arguments on both sides. Kent and Crawley went at it on NRL 360 and both provided good points for either side.

But the NRL trying to rush in a no fault stand down policy after the fact was always going to end in tears. I called this as soon as it happened and any good lawyer would have licked their chops (the same as JDB's lawyer).

Can't believe Beattie has a legal background thinking he could just waltz this ruling in past the Players Association and the Courts.

 

[Mr Angry]

Genuine question - how would you feel having cheered if he ends up convicted?.

Do you feel bad about cheering him before he was accused?
Or just after?

 

[Willow]

Genuine question - how would you feel having cheered if he ends up convicted? Dunno if you’ve got kids but If so, how would you feel having them cheer if he’s convicted?
I don’t think there’s a right or wrong answer to that question , but I do think it’s worth fans asking themselves.

If I may..

To me, there's no IF about it because I just don't know the facts. But given the IF scenario, I guess the question works both ways: How do you feel about them booing him if he is found not guilty?

Here's the thing, JDB hasn't been found guilty of anything. Due process is a basic principle and it must be respected.

And yes, I am a parent. But I'm uncomfortable with dragging them into any moral argument, plus I don't believe it is relevant to any legal argument.