Joey risks his future

[Razor]

Why do you think “able” players from the NRL Grand Final would not be selected in the Tri Series first game? Considering the NRL Grand Final is two week prior on the 2 Oct and the Test is on the 15 Oct?

I didn't say this year. In the past they've played matches against PNG, etc 1 week after the Grand Final before leaving for England. They leave most of the Grand Final players out.

 

[Green Machine]

I didn't say this year. In the past they've played matches against PNG, etc 1 week after the Grand Final before leaving for England. They leave most of the Grand Final players out.

They usually leave most of them out because these games are not Test Matches. They usually put players in who haven’t played for a few weeks. Last years game against PNG was not a Test. It was an invitational game. It was the Junior Kangaroos plus Kangaroos who were not involved late in the Final series:
Australian Invitation side: Matt Bowen (Cowboys); Matt Cooper (Dragons), Brent Tate (Broncos), Tonie Carroll (Broncos), Luke Rooney (Panthers); Scott Hill (Storm), Brett Kimmorley (Sharks) (c); Ben Kennedy (Knights), Ben Creagh (Dragons), Nathan Hindmarsh (Eels), Petero Civoniceva (Broncos), Heath L'Estrange (Roosters), Jason Ryles (Dragons). Res: Berrick Barnes (Broncos), Sam Thaiday (Broncos), Keith Galloway (Sharks), Tom Learoyd (Broncos).

 

[Razor]

They usually leave most of them out because these games are not Test Matches. They usually put players in who haven’t played for a few weeks. Last years game against PNG was not a Test. It was an invitational game. It was the Junior Kangaroos plus Kangaroos who were not involved late in the Final series:

Last years was but in previous years they've had TESTS against PNG

 

[Kiwi]

Joey may end up playing not too many more games for Newcastle than for Warrington. I really don't see the time thing as relevent - what's relevent is a contractual obligation that may clash with a Tri Nations game.

He signed a new 2 year deal for the Knights, I think he expects to play more than 4 to 6 games for the Knights. Whats really relevant is it was an obligation he made knowing about the clash and chose to risk his australian jumper over it.

I guess you are saying that if Johns played for Warrington in the first ESL game, he should be exemp, but iff he missed the first game and started only with the second, he's a money grabbing arsewipe who should be banned fromplaynig for Australia ever again?

I has been widely accepted that ESL players are not selected for Australia. Whether it's written or not isn't the point, Anderson made only 1 mistake as Australian coach, he called up the ESL based Smith, Anderson no longer coaches the Australian team. So playing ESL from the second game, only missing the first is the same as signing at the end of the year missing all but 2 rounds of the ESL regular season now is it?

There is no rule banning the selection of ESL players for Australia. Just because it isn't generally done doesn't mean there is a rule. Smith proved that. So may Jamie Lyon.

How many ESL based players in the history of League have been selected for Australia? 1 and what happened to the coach who called that player up?

Johns was not risking the ENTIRE tri-nations by signing the deal - only 1 game. Certain elements are now trying to make him miss the tour. However, Johns has signed, and there is no rule that he has to miss all of the tri nations if he played in the ESL GF for Warrington.

Yes he was risking it, he knew the policy or stance if you like the ARL has with regards to ESL based players. He also knew the ARL wouldn't look to kindly or be happy with a player missing a Test because a player wanted to play 6 ESL games and try to get an undeserved ESL title.

He expects nothing to change. He will only miss 1 tri nations game because of bodgey scheduling.

And round and round we go, it was his choice, he chose to miss the test knowing what could happen.

 

[Razor]

I has been widely accepted that ESL players are not selected for Australia. Whether it's written or not isn't the point, Anderson made only 1 mistake as Australian coach, he called up the ESL based Smith, Anderson no longer coaches the Australian team.

And it's also accepted that ESL players don't play Origin either. You didn't have a problem with Langer coming back.

Yes he was risking it, he knew the policy or stance if you like the ARL has with regards to ESL based players. He also knew the ARL wouldn't look to kindly or be happy with a player missing a Test because a player wanted to play 6 ESL games and try to get an undeserved ESL title.

Johns isn't an ESL based player though. He is going for a guest stint. Not a regular. Also that policy isn't official, because it's illegal. As I said before if the ARL says he won't be considered, all Johns has to do is take them to court and they'll rule he must be considered. If the ARL say they considered him and thought he wasn't good enough, then we'll all know they are talking sh*t.

It is clearly obvious what this is about. The only people against Johns playing are supporters of SL, former SL players, former SL clubs and the News Ltd media. Every other supporter, club, and media organisation think he should still play.

The fact that Johns going to England has created an unprecedented level of media coverage in England shows what affect this has. People like you Kiwi, seem to be happy with a lower level of coverage. Eurosport basically ignores League, yet this story received major coverage on Eurosport and was placed a higher priority than soccer stories in many media outlets.

So tell me Kiwi why do you insist on England having a low level of League coverage in the media?

 

[Misty Bee]

Kiwi, I guess you are saying that when he made himself available for NSW this year, he did so knowing he'd have to miss Knights games. Therefore, he shows no pride in his Knights jumper.

That is how stupid you look!

 

[Razor]

And read Gould's article this morning. He says people(and you were one of them Kiwi) have short memories who "forgot" about the group of players 10 years ago who signed with a rebel organisation knowing they won't be able to play for Australia. And you must remember Johns was one of the players that did not sign with that other organisation.

 

[Kiwi]

Kiwi, I guess you are saying that when he made himself available for NSW this year, he did so knowing he'd have to miss Knights games. Therefore, he shows no pride in his Knights jumper.

That is how stupid you look!

Now your just grasping at straws.

 

[~knights~]

interesting article by gould....

from
http://www.smh.com.au/news/league/joeys-critics-just-taking-cheap-shots/2005/08/06/1123125942784.html

Joey's critics just taking cheap shots
By Phil Gould
August 7, 2005


Andrew Johns wants to play in the Super League grand final in England, thereby making himself unavailable for the Tri-Nations game between Australia and New Zealand the same weekend. What's the problem?

Oh, he's putting money before playing for his country, cheapening the Australian jersey and putting himself above everyone else in the game. I've never heard such rubbish and hypocrisy.

First, money has nothing to do with it. Johns has always dreamt of playing in big, end-of-season games in England. Why wouldn't he? Like all kids, Johns watched Challenge Cup finals live from Wembley Stadium.

The atmosphere at these big games in England is very special. Johns should be entitled to take advantage of this once-in-a-lifetime chance.

Second, if he is doing it for the money, he wouldn't be the first player to turn his back on a green-and-gold jersey for a bit of the folding stuff.

Some speaking out against Johns have very short memories. Ten years ago, a host of professional players signed with a rebel rugby league competition owned by a media company for lucrative contracts despite knowing this would exclude them from representing the traditional Australian Kangaroos.

They didn't think twice about taking the money. We've seen plenty of players declaring unavailability for tours for reasons less important and far less legitimate than Joey's.

Clubs have encouraged players not to play representative football so they can repair injuries or have a rest.

The line about cheapening the Australian jersey really makes me boil. Newsflash, boys and girls: people have been cheapening and devaluing the Australian jersey for decades.

Don't kid yourselves. Selections for our national teams have been very political. Powerful figures in the game have influenced selections to get certain players a start. We've seen trade-offs between Queensland and NSW selectors. Coaches have shown favouritism towards players, leaving more deserving players from rival clubs to miss out.

On the Kangaroos tour a couple of years ago, Australia selected an ageing Australian player from the local league in England rather than give an opportunity to perfectly fit players who were already part of the touring party.

Don't talk to me about cheapening the Australian jersey. Every time we stop the New Zealanders fielding their best line-up to play against Australia we cheapen the Australian jersey.

The following blokes could play for New Zealand but for the antiquated qualification system we have in place: Tonie Carroll, Luke Covell, Sam Harris, Karmichael Hunt, Reni Maitua, Willie Mason, Timana Tahu, Brad Thorn, Johnathan Thurston, Anthony Tupou, Richard Villasanti and Carl Webb.

Discouraging them from playing for their country with the lure of State of Origin football is cheapening the Australian jersey more than anything Johns is contemplating.

Why are we cheapening the international game by playing a Test match before the Origin series?

Who scheduled a Tri-Nations game for the same weekend as the English grand final? An international would never clash with the grand final in Australia.

The same thing happened last year. New Zealand had six players involved in the Super League grand final between Bradford and Leeds who, as a result, were unavailable for New Zealand in the game against Australia: Shontayne Hape (Bradford), Lesley Vainikolo (Bradford), Joe Vagana (Bradford), Robbie Paul (Bradford), Logan Swann (Bradford), Ali Lauiti'iti (Leeds).

This year there are 12 New Zealand players in the running to be playing on Super League grand final day so who is responsible for scheduling a Tri-Nations game that weekend and weakening the Kiwis' national team?

How does this happen? Who is responsible? Why don't the Kiwis have access to their best players when they play Australia? Without strong competition on the international stage, we are cheapening the results attained by the Australian team.

Johns could never damage the international game to the degree Australian administrators have over the years. And what about those who destroyed rugby league in the Pacific Islands?

Johns's appearance will assist the game in Britain enormously. Lifting league's profile there will do far more good for the game internationally than any act we have seen from an administrator in my time.

Let Andrew play his grand final in England and, when it's done, welcome him back into the Australian team with open arms.

 

[drake]

A great piece by Gould.

 

[Razor]

I agree totally. It humours me that most of the people anti-Johns are also supports of Super League clubs, where the players all turned down Aussie jerseys for money then expected(and were given) the jersey when they came back. That makes me laugh so much. Also the fact that the News Ltd medias campaign to get Johns banned from the tour as well, when they were forcing and paying players to not play tests.

 

[Squishy_Da_Byatch]

Ok....so if he was to not be selected for Australia for the first Tri game, but for some odd reason was called up for the second, that would be ok? BUT its not ok for him to basically fulfill a childhood dream, when given the chance?

Playing these few games in some ways will probably be good, as the Australian selectors will be able to see if he really is ready to fill the number 7 jersey for his country!

As i believe it was Warrington who called Joey and asked him to play for them, for $20,000 a game which i would assume (as i don't exactly know how much he gets paid) would be petty cash for him. So how it can be because of the money is beyond me.

As far as i know when a player signs a contract they also state that they will be available for call up for City/Country, Origin and Australian duties, or conversly state that they are unavailble for selection (ie retiring from Rep footy or stating that they no longer wish to go away on international tours) BUT as far as i know there is nothing in there stating that a player cannot give sufficent evidence as to why they should be exempted from duties but allowing themselves to be free for any other call ups, unless injured. Now from, all the interviews that i have seen on TV with Joey he has said that he will play with Warrington for the last few games as they have asked him too, and i am pretty damn sure that in his contract that he signed it states that he will play all games INCLUDING the GF, and i am sure that they did actually say that he was eligable to play for Australia if he wanted to but he stated that he has signed a contract that includes the GF and so he will be there till the GF if they get that far! But he will then be available for any other Australian duties IF needed/wanted.

Oh but of course you would like to see him out completly because you KNOW that if he was to be allowed to be selected after the GF that he would be a sure fire pick!
If your precious Lockyer was to do what Joey is doing, most of you would be jumping up and down ranting and raving because he should be allowed to play in the Tri game and that they should of re-scheduled the game to suit him!

 

[Green Machine]

Last years was but in previous years they've had TESTS against PNG

The last official Test between Australia and PNG was 2001:
1998 a/h/a New Zealand: won 2-1
1999 New Zealand: won
1999 Tri-Series (3 games) won
2000 New Zealand: won
2000 PNG: won
2001in New Zealand: won
2001in PNG: won
2001in Great Britain: won 2-1
2002 Great Britain: won
2002 in New Zealand: won
2003 New Zealand: won
2003 in New Zealand: lost
2003 in Great Britain: won 3-0
2004 New Zealand: won
2004 Tri-Nations Series: won

What is your point?

 

[Kiwi]

Ok....so if he was to not be selected for Australia for the first Tri game, but for some odd reason was called up for the second, that would be ok? BUT its not ok for him to basically fulfill a childhood dream, when given the chance?

Playing these few games in some ways will probably be good, as the Australian selectors will be able to see if he really is ready to fill the number 7 jersey for his country!

As i believe it was Warrington who called Joey and asked him to play for them, for $20,000 a game which i would assume (as i don't exactly know how much he gets paid) would be petty cash for him. So how it can be because of the money is beyond me.

As far as i know when a player signs a contract they also state that they will be available for call up for City/Country, Origin and Australian duties, or conversly state that they are unavailble for selection (ie retiring from Rep footy or stating that they no longer wish to go away on international tours) BUT as far as i know there is nothing in there stating that a player cannot give sufficent evidence as to why they should be exempted from duties but allowing themselves to be free for any other call ups, unless injured. Now from, all the interviews that i have seen on TV with Joey he has said that he will play with Warrington for the last few games as they have asked him too, and i am pretty damn sure that in his contract that he signed it states that he will play all games INCLUDING the GF, and i am sure that they did actually say that he was eligable to play for Australia if he wanted to but he stated that he has signed a contract that includes the GF and so he will be there till the GF if they get that far! But he will then be available for any other Australian duties IF needed/wanted.

Oh but of course you would like to see him out completly because you KNOW that if he was to be allowed to be selected after the GF that he would be a sure fire pick!
If your precious Lockyer was to do what Joey is doing, most of you would be jumping up and down ranting and raving because he should be allowed to play in the Tri game and that they should of re-scheduled the game to suit him!

If it was a childhood dream, then why only do it for 6 games? If it was a childhood dream then why cheapen it by going over for 6 games to win an underserved ESL title?

I would much rather see Johns in an australian jersey over an ESL one. But Johns has made his choice and could miss the tri nations, he knew that when he signed with warrington.

As for Lockyer, if he did the same thing as Johns, then as far as i'm concerned he should miss the series as well, and be stripped of the captaincy. One thing is certain, Misty Bee and the Johns brigade in here would do an about face and call for Lockyer's head.

 

[Green Machine]

The line about cheapening the Australian jersey really makes me boil. Newsflash, boys and girls: people have been cheapening and devaluing the Australian jersey for decades.

Don't kid yourselves. Selections for our national teams have been very political. Powerful figures in the game have influenced selections to get certain players a start. We've seen trade-offs between Queensland and NSW selectors. Coaches have shown favouritism towards players, leaving more deserving players from rival clubs to miss out.

I think Phil has stumbled onto something with the last sentence. I wonder if the selection of certain players in the Australian side as favors to certain players at certain clubs or for certain players to move to certain clubs has also happened at State of Origin level, with the New South Wales side. Good point Phil,

 

[Misty Bee]

One thing is certain, Misty Bee and the Johns brigade in here would do an about face and call for Lockyer's head.

Unless you are Nostradamus, and can actually read people's minds, you are talking out of your arse.

In these conversations, your only counter is to attack the cred of posters with opposing views. This is glaringly obvious.

You wouldn't know what I thought of Lockyer. But I'll tell you what I think of Tallis and Webcke. Tallis and Webcke turned their back on a test jumper for Super League $$. tallis was also the only player to call for the cancellation of an Origin game while he was playing in the series. Ironicallyu because Queensland couldn't win. And Webcke thought he was a terrorist target, (lol!) and shafted international football because of it.

Webcke and Tallis are hypocrites.

So, in reply, Kiwi, I know you won't actually argue the point. You are, quite simmply, not up to it.

Just go and hate Joey quietly in a corner somewhere,will you?

 

[Mr Saab]

misty...you hate everything to do with modern QLD so you would bash Lockyer like crazy and start 1000 threads about him if he did a "johns"

 

[Misty Bee]

Charlie, you are acting like the toilet seat fell on your willy again.

Take this morning's medication, come back and try again.

BTW, I love Queensland. But the term 'Modern Queensland' is an oxymoron. Sort of like you when you are welding.

 

[Mr Saab]

you bash qld as much as i bas johns!!!!!!

 

[Misty Bee]

Charlie, you crack me up!!!!!

Most of my 'Queensland bashing" is either ridiculing you over your tantrum after Origin III, defending Joey from the bah humbugs from QLD, or responding to the ramblings of idiots like Tallis in the press, especially his tantrum over BK in Origin III.

Unlike you, I love all states in Australia - my Island home. Call it patriotism if you like.

Patriotism, it's in the dictionary under "P".