John O'Neill's Plan. What do you think ?

[Timbo]

I think it'd make perfect sense.

I crunched some numbers yesterday when the idea first struck me, the logical outcome for me would be the merger of North Harbour and Northland, Manuwatu and Hawkes Bay and possibly the exclusion alltogether of Tasman?

I don't know, it would take a great deal of work, but I think it'd be the best way to get the NZ rugby public to get behind it in any capacity.

 

[shiznit]

i dont know if you could exclude Tasman all together.. that would leave a huge area of the south island with no representation.

all i know is its going to be very hard to sell it to the provinces...

 

[Te Kaha]

i dont know if you could exclude Tasman all together.. that would leave a huge area of the south island with no representation.

all i know is its going to be very hard to sell it to the provinces...

Dont you believe it... The situation is dire for most of them...

Things to come out of the 2 day conference.... NPC ... WILL be back to amatuer... it will probably run as a feeder to Super 10-16... All Blacks and Super 10-16 players wont play in it....

 

[Timbo]

The only reason I advocated axing Tasman was it appears to be the side with the lowest population base behind it.

The reasons I had for merging the others are pretty self apparent.

Even still...I doubt the ARU would settle for such a small slice of the pie. As much as I'd love to see it happen.

 

[shiznit]

Dont you believe it... The situation is dire for most of them...

Things to come out of the 2 day conference.... NPC ... WILL be back to amatuer... it will probably run as a feeder to Super 10-16... All Blacks and Super 10-16 players wont play in it....

where did you hear that?? i spoke with 2 people who were at that 'think-tank' and they walked away with the impression that nothing was going to happen. they called it a waste of time...

 

[Te Kaha]

where did you hear that?? i spoke with 2 people who were at that 'think-tank' and they walked away with the impression that nothing was going to happen. they called it a waste of time...

Money talks... the big unions have backed it... the small ones had to because the Union wont bail them out... as to waste of time... depends who you talk to i spose

 

[shiznit]

Money talks... the big unions have backed it... the small ones had to because the Union wont bail them out... as to waste of time... depends who you talk to i spose

a friend of mine from the northland delegation and someone from the players union.

they both said they ended up talking mostly about how to whore out the all blacks to make the revenue shortfall created by the domestic competition.

there was no talk of making the npc amatier at all...

and your saying the big unions have backed it... lol... did you get that out of the meeting forum did you??

lol.... theve made there position known since the competition review started in 2004. nothings changed...

i dont think you really understand how the NZRFU works mate... the big unions.. Auckland, Waikato, Wellington, Canterbury & Otago are 5 votes in the executive up against Northland, North Harbour, BOP, Hawkes Bay, Taranaki, Manawatu, Tasman & Southland. thats 8 votes. thats a majority already to the small unions.

that means even if the big unions get the remaining 2 votes(from heartland unions & players union) they still dont have the numbers to get it through...

which is pretty much impossible considering they would have to somehow convince the heartland union's that setting them up against the likes of Northland, BOP & Tasman will be good for them to get there vote...

then its even tougher to get the last remaining vote they would need to convince the players union that making 60% of there members unemployed is good for them..

you better check your sources mate...

 

[Te Kaha]

a friend of mine from the northland delegation and someone from the players union.

they both said they ended up talking mostly about how to whore out the all blacks to make the revenue shortfall created by the domestic competition.

there was no talk of making the npc amatier at all...

and your saying the big unions have backed it... lol... did you get that out of the meeting forum did you??

lol.... theve made there position known since the competition review started in 2004. nothings changed...

i dont think you really understand how the NZRFU works mate... the big unions.. Auckland, Waikato, Wellington, Canterbury & Otago are 5 votes in the executive up against Northland, North Harbour, BOP, Hawkes Bay, Taranaki, Manawatu, Tasman & Southland. thats 8 votes. thats a majority already to the small unions.

that means even if the big unions get the remaining 2 votes(from heartland unions & players union) they still dont have the numbers to get it through...

which is pretty much impossible considering they would have to somehow convince the heartland union's that setting them up against the likes of Northland, BOP & Tasman will be good for them to get there vote...

then its even tougher to get the last remaining vote they would need to convince the players union that making 60% of there members unemployed is good for them..

you better check your sources mate...

I know full well how the NZRFU works... and my sources or source in this case is fine... she has never been wrong yet...

It has nothing to do with voting.. the simple fact is the NZRFU executive have decided they wont bail out the Unions... they were told they will have to fund themselves.. most wont be able to survive at current levels.... the NPC WILL be amatuer IF i remains in its present form...

If the Yarpies pull out there WILL be a transtasman comp that will take out the big unions from the NPC.

 

[Timbo]

Realistically, in the long term it makes the most sense.

The All-Black brand is what keeps the provincial unions alive, the NPC can't survive on it's own, just like the Australian provinces couldn't survive on their own. Hell, even the Saffers would struggle if they didn't have to European competition to bail to.

I really can't see the ARU making any real demands beyond the inclusion of a Victorian team. There are suggestions of a Western Sydney club, or a North Queensland club, but the fact of the matter is that we really couldn't support more than 5 provinces with our player pool, if you ask me.

Possibly down the track a second Sydney or Queenslad team, maybe a team in South Australia (a region which the ARU refuse to give up on despite its severe lack of support), but in the beginning I don't see more than 5 to begin with.

For you blokes who do seem to be somewhat in the know on this, do you think the NZRU would advocate a Super 10, with your 5 Super franchises in, or would there be a re-bidding process for franchises from the NPC sides? What would be the likely outcome if there was a Super 12/14 and therefore slots for 7/9 NZ teams?

 

[shiznit]

I know full well how the NZRFU works... and my sources or source in this case is fine... she has never been wrong yet...

It has nothing to do with voting.. the simple fact is the NZRFU executive have decided they wont bail out the Unions... they were told they will have to fund themselves.. most wont be able to survive at current levels.... the NPC WILL be amatuer IF i remains in its present form...

If the Yarpies pull out there WILL be a transtasman comp that will take out the big unions from the NPC.

theres NO WAY the executive have backed a plan to go amatuer. i can tell you that right now...

the NZRFU will keep bailing the small unions out as long as they control the NZRFU..... thats just the nature of the beast.

i see they did a poll on Re-Union asking fans what the best way forward was.... a large majority of fans said to keep it semi-pro. so the NZRFU need to figure out how to keep it viable.

obviously theres too many sides... im a nothland fan... i played for northland all the way up to colts so i pretty much bleed cambridge blue... but i would not have any problem with us merging with Harbour... i think it makes sense...

but i know alot of people who would fight that to the bitter end.... even in court... and thats just Northland... BOP, HB, Taranaki etc... will be the same...

how about Tasman?? they just amalgimated 2 unions to make Tasman. alot of people have invested money into that team so you can bet they will take them to court of they get booted out or downgraded to amatuer status...

 

[ozbash]

BOP is a fractured union, Tauranga hates Rotorua and they both hate Whakatane. very messy.
I dont think there would be many arguments with a Waikato merger, be a hugely strong union.

I can see the country turning into a 5-6 union outfit, maybe along the lines of the S14 franchises. One more in the Sth Island.

 

[Te Kaha]

theres NO WAY the executive have backed a plan to go amatuer. i can tell you that right now...

the NZRFU will keep bailing the small unions out as long as they control the NZRFU..... thats just the nature of the beast.

i see they did a poll on Re-Union asking fans what the best way forward was.... a large majority of fans said to keep it semi-pro. so the NZRFU need to figure out how to keep it viable.

obviously theres too many sides... im a nothland fan... i played for northland all the way up to colts so i pretty much bleed cambridge blue... but i would not have any problem with us merging with Harbour... i think it makes sense...

but i know alot of people who would fight that to the bitter end.... even in court... and thats just Northland... BOP, HB, Taranaki etc... will be the same...

how about Tasman?? they just amalgimated 2 unions to make Tasman. alot of people have invested money into that team so you can bet they will take them to court of they get booted out or downgraded to amatuer status...

You dont get it... The smaller Unions wont have any say in the matter... Most are broke.. even tasman is broke... The All Blacks and to a lesser extent the big 5 Unions are proping up the smaller Unions... They are going to what amounts to pulling out of the NPC to such an extent that NPC wont have enough pulling power to fund itself.... The Executive have all but rubber stamped this... The only thing that will save it is for the Unions to amalagamate, which I think is what the Union has been pushing for all along.. 8 or 9 Super Unions in a Transtasman comp that will last for the bulk of the Rugby season... the NPC will have no choice but to revert to its amatuer status... There wont be a vote as they will have no choice... amatuer( or aas good as ) or die

Its a proffessional game now... the ARC proved that if a comp cant support it self then it has no place in anything but an amatuer game...

 

[shiznit]

You dont get it... The smaller Unions wont have any say in the matter... Most are broke.. even tasman is broke... The All Blacks and to a lesser extent the big 5 Unions are proping up the smaller Unions... They are going to what amounts to pulling out of the NPC to such an extent that NPC wont have enough pulling power to fund itself.... The Executive have all but rubber stamped this... The only thing that will save it is for the Unions to amalagamate, which I think is what the Union has been pushing for all along.. 8 or 9 Super Unions in a Transtasman comp that will last for the bulk of the Rugby season... the NPC will have no choice but to revert to its amatuer status... There wont be a vote as they will have no choice... amatuer( or aas good as ) or die

Its a proffessional game now... the ARC proved that if a comp cant support it self then it has no place in anything but an amatuer game...

lol... 'the smaller unions have no say in the matter'... you still dont understand do you...

THE SMALLER UNIONS CONTROL THE NZRFU!! the big unions are the minority.

your in a dreamland mate.... the big 5 unions have NEVER propped up the smaller ones...

the NZRFU have propped them up... and they will continue to do it until the NZRFU isnt controlled by them....

the executive havent rubberstamped anything.... they havent even had the AGM this year to rubber stamp anything...

all weve heard from Tew is that there doing a review which will be announced in august. behind the scenes theres been nothin said by the players union or the small union.


deadset mate... either your sources are having a laugh at your expense or your just full of sh*t.... i get the feeling its the latter...

 

[Te Kaha]

lol... 'the smaller unions have no say in the matter'... you still dont understand do you...

THE SMALLER UNIONS CONTROL THE NZRFU!! the big unions are the minority.

your in a dreamland mate.... the big 5 unions have NEVER propped up the smaller ones...

the NZRFU have propped them up... and they will continue to do it until the NZRFU isnt controlled by them....

the executive havent rubberstamped anything.... they havent even had the AGM this year to rubber stamp anything...

all weve heard from Tew is that there doing a review which will be announced in august. behind the scenes theres been nothin said by the players union or the small union.


deadset mate... either your sources are having a laugh at your expense or your just full of sh*t.... i get the feeling its the latter...

Have it your way... time will proove me right... this has been in the wind for a long time....

 

[shiznit]

Have it your way... time will proove me right... this has been in the wind for a long time....

i suppose we will have to wait for august...

 

[Te Kaha]

i suppose we will have to wait for august...

Wont be this year, next year at the earliest, more likely 2010