John Sutton? Nah, f**k him...he's not an 'origin player'

[Poupou Escobar]

It's just a number. The amount of 13's that I've seen play either in the front row or at second row in club football this year is quite astounding.

Yep. Very few people seem to realise this.

Most teams play their back rowers just like my team Parramatta:

11. Hindmarsh - defends in the middle with the front rowers and hooker, attacks as a prop but makes less runs per set and rarely takes the first hit-up.

12. Ben Smith - defends on the right 3 in from the winger, attacks on the right 2 in from the winger.

11. Mateo - as for Ben Smith but on the left.

They could stick the 13 on Hindmarsh and it wouldn't make any difference. Some clubs put the central back rower in the 13 jersey and some don't.

 

[Raider_69]

and a long history of it paying dividends, too.

There has been some quality no doubt. There has also been some very average players and then a lot of players getting picked long after they should have been put out to pasture. Simpson, Buderus and M.Giddley are three that got picked long after the sun had gone down.
And im of no doubts if Kurt Giddley didnt have the Giddley name and didnt play for newcastle he wouldnt have a single SOO to his name, let alone test matches. The guy just isnt rep standard.
Punting him will solve half of NSW's problems. Then they will just have to worry about picking a front row that isnt soft as f**king sh*te and a pair of halves capible of creating. The rest of the side pretty much picks itself

 

[perverse]

There has been some quality no doubt. There has also been some very average players and then a lot of players getting picked long after they should have been put out to pasture. Simpson, Buderus and M.Giddley are three that got picked long after the sun had gone down.
And im of no doubts if Kurt Giddley didnt have the Giddley name and didnt play for newcastle he wouldnt have a single SOO to his name, let alone test matches. The guy just isnt rep standard.
Punting him will solve half of NSW's problems. Then they will just have to worry about picking a front row that isnt soft as f**king sh*te and a pair of halves capible of creating. The rest of the side pretty much picks itself

i'm not sure where to start...

Simpson played what... 1 series too many before he was punted? Ditto with Midley? not unusual at all for any rep team to give good servants one last crack... even if they are a bit over the hill. Midley and Simmo were awesome for NSW for several years. in fact, this is the sort of loyalty that NSW are badly missing... and QLD continue to laugh at us for it.

Buderus... what have Ennis and Farah done since he left that was even close to the level of intensity and leadership that was on display every time he took the field, right up until his last match? i would love to hear why he stayed too long, given what we've learned since he left... i really would. i look forward to you explaining this one.

... and then you finish with the best bit, that removing Kurt Gidley will remove HALF of NSW's problems, straight of the bat! wow... astounded by that. it certainly won't fix their lack of urgency, leadership or passion. it isn't going to fix our halves. it isn't going to stop every player sh*tting themselves about keeping their spots (actually, we will actually go backwards even further on this one). what it will do is it will add a dimension in attack from fullback, and remove one bloke you can guarentee will have a red hot dig every game. you say that the rest of the side then picks itself.. but not even that is true. there are question marks about who should be in the centres, question marks about at least 1 wing spot, question marks over our backrow (in which we have a ridiculous embarrassment of riches), MASSIVE question marks about the front row and who the hell knows what they're gonna do with the bench?

removing Gidley from the team will improve it on paper, no doubt. it won't even solve 1/8th of NSW's deep seeded problems, though... and that's just ON the park.

 

[Raider_69]

Just my opinion mate, but you talk about the halves... Giddley sticking his f**king nose into the halves is half the issue there. And i couldnt give a flying f**k if he has a go every game, he's rubbish, has been for years. Should never have played this level, let alone captain

Sort the front row out, get some real halves and pick a real fullback and NSW are going to be a much better side. There is questions in the side no doubt but once you pick a proper spine, the rest of the side picks itself based on who you have there.

Farah was a better player than Buderus for 2 years before he was picked. I dont know if it would have changed the result. But there is no doubt he got picked on reputation rather than form and ability. Thats my point. Maybe we would have gone worse with Farah, maybe better. Who knows, all i know is Buderus wasnt NSW's best hooker long before he got punted.

 

[perverse]

Farah was a better player than Buderus for 2 years before he was picked. I dont know if it would have changed the result. But there is no doubt he got picked on reputation rather than form and ability. Thats my point. Maybe we would have gone worse with Farah, maybe better. Who knows, all i know is Buderus wasnt NSW's best hooker long before he got punted.

fair enough on the rest of your post, i don't think we'll get anywhere debating any of that... and i don't necessarily disagree with you on anything Gidley related... regardless of the extensive hyperbole you (and most other NSW supporters) have used in describing him as a player.

Buderus was picked on a lot more than reputation. he was picked on loyalty, he was picked on his proven track record at that level, he was picked because he was the captain and had the respect of his peers at that level. he was picked for his work ethic and his ability to always be the bloke that dived on the loose ball, or make that all important cover tackle. most importantly - he was picked because nobody else could do a better job at that level - which has definitely been proven true since then. he was the bloke that every other player wants with him in the trenches. the kind of bloke who would chop their arm off if they thought it would help the team win. i honestly don't think we have a player like this in the team at the moment... and we may not even have access to one in NSW, period. Paul Gallen and Nathan Hindmarsh come to mind as players who could fill this sort of capacity. QLD has a lot of these sorts of blokes in their team, but they also happen to be the best at what they do. Lockyer, Thurston, Smith and Petero immediately spring to mind... and there are other players well on their way to developing the same sort of leadership aura in that team.

bashing on Buderus to this day completely flies in the face of everything we've seen since he retired.

 

[Poupou Escobar]

i'm not sure where to start...

Simpson played what... 1 series too many before he was punted? Ditto with Midley? not unusual at all for any rep team to give good servants one last crack... even if they are a bit over the hill. Midley and Simmo were awesome for NSW for several years. in fact, this is the sort of loyalty that NSW are badly missing... and QLD continue to laugh at us for it.

Buderus... what have Ennis and Farah done since he left that was even close to the level of intensity and leadership that was on display every time he took the field, right up until his last match? i would love to hear why he stayed too long, given what we've learned since he left... i really would. i look forward to you explaining this one.

... and then you finish with the best bit, that removing Kurt Gidley will remove HALF of NSW's problems, straight of the bat! wow... astounded by that. it certainly won't fix their lack of urgency, leadership or passion. it isn't going to fix our halves. it isn't going to stop every player sh*tting themselves about keeping their spots (actually, we will actually go backwards even further on this one). what it will do is it will add a dimension in attack from fullback, and remove one bloke you can guarentee will have a red hot dig every game. you say that the rest of the side then picks itself.. but not even that is true. there are question marks about who should be in the centres, question marks about at least 1 wing spot, question marks over our backrow (in which we have a ridiculous embarrassment of riches), MASSIVE question marks about the front row and who the hell knows what they're gonna do with the bench?

removing Gidley from the team will improve it on paper, no doubt. it won't even solve 1/8th of NSW's deep seeded problems, though... and that's just ON the park.

Very good post.

I don't think Gidley should ever have been in the team but dropping him now would do more harm than good.

Farah was a better player than Buderus for 2 years before he was picked.

I think Farah's a better player than Ennis but I'm a believer in the not-an-Origin-player line. I think Ennis should be the Blues hooker - he's an Origin-type player and he was as good as any other NSW player in game 1.

 

[Raider_69]

I think Farah's a better player than Ennis but I'm a believer in the not-an-Origin-player line. I think Ennis should be the Blues hooker - he's an Origin-type player and he was as good as any other NSW player in game 1.

I dont neccacarily disagree, i was just responding to justify my claim that knights (and yes to a lesser degree, dragons) get preferential treatment come rep time.

Anyways, this is all a mute point, i've been championing Campese or Sutton for 5/8th and its pointless, mail suggests Campese's already had the black line put through his name and Sutton isnt going to get picked, not when there are blokes like Lyon, Giddley, Lewis, Bird as options, you know, those "safe" type of players

But i guess we'll have an entire SOO off season soon to dicuss how we're going to stop a 6th straight series loss

 

[Big Pete]

Speaking of Buderus and his time in the Sky Blue as a Qlder I loved it when he would be taken off the field from 06-08 because you knew the intensity of the Blues would dip and that was when Qld would be able to gain the ascendancy.

 

[adamkungl]

Remember the good old days when good clubs like the Roosters got preferential treatment in Origin. NSW actually won games. Good times. These sides stacked with Saints and Dogs players are woeful...

 

[Big Pete]

Speaking of Buderus and his time in the Sky Blue as a Qlder I loved it when he would be taken off the field from 06-08 because you knew the intensity of the Blues would dip and that was when Qld would be able to gain the ascendancy.

 

[Big Pete]

Remember the good old days when good clubs like the Roosters got preferential treatment in Origin. NSW actually won games. Good times. These sides stacked with Saints and Dogs players are woeful...

Those Rooster players never came up against a Qld side this good.

In fact...didn't Qld have a few Roosters players in their side during that time?

 

[adamkungl]

Those Rooster players never came up against a Qld side this good.

In fact...didn't Qld have a few Roosters players in their side during that time?

Fittler Wing and pre-injury Mini would have showed them who's boss.

 

[Apey]

Speaking of Buderus and his time in the Sky Blue as a Qlder I loved it when he would be taken off the field from 06-08 because you knew the intensity of the Blues would dip and that was when Qld would be able to gain the ascendancy.

Same thing happened at the Knights, he'd go off and we'd let a bunch of tries in. We are sorely missing his leadership at the Knights right now and NSW are sorely missing a player like him to lead from the front. That's something else that has always frustrated me, I don't like the idea of any fullback being captain due to their position on the field.

While we're on the Knights, them and the Blues really have a lot of similarities at the moment. Both obviously have an attitude problem and a very soft front-row. They shouldn't be doing as badly as they are based on their personnel.

Sort out the attitude problem somehow and stop picking dingleberries like Perry and White and you're sweet.

 

[Big Pete]

Aye.

I said it elsewhere, but if the selectors showed some confidence in the boys and didn't drop them after one or two games I believe the performance of those in Blue would be better and the quality of these Origin games would be better.

 

[VictorTheViking]

Im not sold on Sutton to be honest, and thats simply because every game ive seen him play has been rubbish (sounds like ive missed a few good ones?)

 

[Big Pete]

Try anyone where the Souths have scored big.

Usually it's come from a good Sutton performance.

Mind you, I was the exact same way with Tuiaki. Everytime I watched a Tigers game live he'd always play like rubbish.