John Sutton? Nah, f**k him...he's not an 'origin player'

[SSFC Hitman]

I think Campese is NSW's best 5/8. No offense to Raiders fans but let's face it they are a very raw side and lack other "star" players around Campese. Put him in an Origin team and he will shine even if his club form isn't the greatest. Sutton would offer more than Odris off the bench and could play 5/8 or backrow. If you picked Campese at 5/8 though you have to let him control the game. And since the NSW selectors love Gidley he can be at halfback as with Hayne at fullback and Campese there wouldn't be much need for him to kick and Gidley's job would be to occasionally run and support play around the middle and not much else.

 

[typicalfan]

Sutton should be fighting for a bench spot that Lewis and Bird may be in front of him for.

 

[Slackboy72]

Sutton or Campese?
I strongly suspect for most people it will come down to whether you hate the raiders or souffs more rather than a judgement on their ability. So hard to decide...

 

[NGR]

I think Campese is NSW's best 5/8. No offense to Raiders fans but let's face it they are a very raw side and lack other "star" players around Campese. Put him in an Origin team and he will shine even if his club form isn't the greatest. Sutton would offer more than Odris off the bench and could play 5/8 or backrow. If you picked Campese at 5/8 though you have to let him control the game. And since the NSW selectors love Gidley he can be at halfback as with Hayne at fullback and Campese there wouldn't be much need for him to kick and Gidley's job would be to occasionally run and support play around the middle and not much else.

I think if you pick sutton at 5/8 you would want beau champion in the centres as well. If you go with Campese, you would want to have joel thompson in the centres.

As for those who say sutton is inconsistant are judging him on 2 years ago.. When he has an off game, it is usually because he is spotted in defence and rushed by 2 or more players in attack.. Give him some decent early ball and he will carve up...

Alas, it will be gidley in the 6...

 

[Liddell]

Sutton shows up once every 3 months and now he should play origin? Give me a break...

Finished last year with the most try assists, must have done ok in those games he did turn up..

 

[BranVan3000]

Finished last year with the most try assists, must have done ok in those games he did turn up..

He finished last year on a high, but I don't think he turned up early this season at the same level

But then again, so many other players can be said the same

 

[Ike E Bear]

Finished last year with the most try assists, must have done ok in those games he did turn up..

People form impressions over time and once formed, those opinions are very hard to shake. It's kind of like the "Origin player" tag.

There is no doubting that Sutton has been a mixed bag over his career. He has been shifted around positions and given varying degrees of responsibility, and - most importantly - has played in an under-performing side for many years.

Since shifting to five-eight and being kept there consistently for a couple of seasons to mature into the role, you'd have to say he has performed very, very well.

He still gets hung out to dry by under-performing teammates at times, but he's leading stats for a reason.

My biggest concern with Sutton relates to his current form and recent performances. He is a very talented, natural and instinctive player. He uses his physical strength and well-rounded passing game very well. My issue is that, given time, he seems to tangle himself up. When he operates intellectually instead of instinctively he takes a lot of crazy poor options. This seems to be the biggest flaw in his kicking game. He's capable of a great kick, but too often makes the wrong kick for the situation. He doesn't come across as the smartest footballer in those situations.

He and his halves partner, Sandow, are also both guilty of being confidence players ... which is why when they are off they are often terrible. I'm not sure Sutton, at this point in his career, is the guy that will get you back into a game. When the Bunnies do mount comebacks, it is almost always on the back of Luke's dummyhalf running. Once Luke grabs the momentum, Sutton and Sandow sometimes - not always - chime in and capitalise.

 

[Didgi]

LIke with pearce ,sutton form against weaker opposition far better then against stronger teams

souths beat
sharks,bulldogs,knights,tigers,raiders,panthers

souths lost to
Roosters,titans,eels,warriors,sea eagles

sutton hasnt really stood up against better opposition , like pearce has to prove it against stronger opposition .


Im not saying he shouldnt be considered , he should be a better chance then pearce .

Those Souths win/loss records statistics have no bearing whatsoever on anything.
You're saying he hasn't proven himself while Pearce has, then you're saying he should be a better chance than Pearce.
He shows his talents in the games they win because
a) The forwards provide an excellent platform for him
and
b) He creates their tries and opportunities, which lead to them winning. It's more he causes Souths to win than Souths causes Sutton to play well.

So did Mitchell Pearce.....

a) Root gaba's girlfriend
b) beat gaba up in 4th grade
c) give gaba a spray one day when gaba was in the crowd and Mitchell playing first grade

Here, you're assuming three things.
a) Gaba has a girlfriend
b) Gaba made it to 4th grade
c) Gaba has enough money to go to the football
:crazy:

 

[typicalfan]

Sutton is more a ball playing forward in the origin arena IMO. As a 5/8 he is hot and cold because he has to choose to either run to the line or ball play. He shouldn't be burdened with that decision as he should be forced to run to the line on the fringe all the time in origin and his footwork and offload work to our advantage.

For Souths Luke is the main man, everything this year revolves around him and Sutton is made to look a lot more powerful when Luke has the defense retreating.

Sutton isn't a traditional 5/8 we need a traditional 5/8 like Barrett, Campese or Carney. Watch Campese and his runs aren't decided by the hooker. To include Sutton would mean to give our bench a bit more variety and skills.

 

[patzz_]

Maybe for a bench spot. If he starts in 6 and has a bad game, he always goes missing. In that case we could lose about 50-0 :s

Also he plays alot of his good footy when Luke gets the opposition on the back foot, as well as those big forwards. If we don't have the maroons on the back foot in origin, I am afraid he can go missing big time.

 

[Big Pete]

They wouldnt, i said that in the post.
As for why they should take a risk like that.... look no further than the fact we are heading to Suncorp needing to win to avoid an unprecedented 5th straight series lost, i would argue what ever the selectors feel is playing it safe, isnt really working as a safe option. If starring down the barrel of a 5th straight series loss isnt the time to try something different, then i dont know when it is.

If the definition of insanity is trying the same thing over again and expecting different results then the NSW selectors are need to be institutionalised, thats how insane they are

But why should the selectors base their entire game plan around Campese?

 

[timka4]

yeh if he went missing the selectors would probably do the old 'we told you so' and retreat into their shells for another couple of years. He also wouldn't get a look in for a very long time if that happened IMO. My money is on Campese, think he is a great player, he was outside Wallace in game 1, enough said.

I could do with Sutton on the bench as a lock interchange maybe or 2nd row

 

[Noa]

I find it funny how people whinge about halves or backs in general that "go missing" ... it tends to happen when your forward pack is getting obliterated.

Pisses me off no end, really is an inane catchphrase for those not capable of tactical thinking about the game.

 

[Big Pete]

It's not as if Sutton is working with an inept forward pack though...

 

[Raider_69]

But why should the selectors base their entire game plan around Campese?

because if you pick him to play half back, thats what you'd have to do to make it work

im not saying they should do that, im saying they should do something like that, ie do something outside the box they've been working with for the past 4 years, because in case they've missed it, what they've done the last 4 years hasnt worked

Out of the box suggestions include:

- pick a real front row
- pick players in their positions
- pick players on form
- stop picking useless knights players
- if you pick a young half, give him more than a game to be MOTM.

or as i said, pick a quality half, be it Campese, Sutton, Carney, Pearce, who ever and build the team around them, give them a team they can best succeed with.
Personally whilst i said picking Campese at half isn't a bad idea (because he's the best fit young proven half NSW at the moment imo, until pearce takes the field in a few minutes), id much rather we go with Pearce at Halfback and either Sutton or Campese playing a classical 5/8th role
Campese can very easily play that role but he needs his hooker and half to allow him some ball. Which is not what happened in Campo's one and only game. He got barely any ball because Farah constantly went to Wallace and Giddley, who ballsed things up tremendously

 

[Noa]

It's not as if Sutton is working with an inept forward pack though...

I was talking about in general not Sutton.

It would be fair to say though that Sutton being a 6 or 13 capable of getting his hands on the ball whenever he wants that he has not stepped up enough in the past.

 

[Big Pete]

because if you pick him to play half back, thats what you'd have to do to make it work

No kidding, but to base an entire side around Campese in the first place is silly.

im saying they should do something like that, ie do something outside the box they've been working with for the past 4 years, because in case they've missed it, what they've done the last 4 years hasnt worked

They've tried all sorts of things. Nothing has seemingly worked on Qld.

- pick a real front row

:? They've mostly picked front rowers to play in the front row. I don't think they've ever opted to leave out any awesome front rowers. Except maybe Kite circa 2008 but given his form in the Sky Blue one could make the argument.

- pick players in their positions

It wasn't as if they were being thrown into unfamiliar positions your players. I suppose us Qlders should be upset that Boyd isn't at fullback, Tonga isn't on the left, Cronk isn't at half and Taylor wasn't in the backrow?

- pick players on form

I love this old chest nut. If you picked an Origin side on form it would change from game to game. Nearly every player picked was the form player for their position.

Form can also be misleading. A players form can be reflective of those around him as opposed to his own natural abilities.

- stop picking useless knights players

Why would you single out Knights players? What about Storm players? Sea Eagles? Bulldogs? Panthers? Eels? etc.

- if you pick a young half, give him more than a game to be MOTM.

Yep.

Personally whilst i said picking Campese at half isn't a bad idea (because he's the best fit young proven half NSW at the moment imo, until pearce takes the field in a few minutes)

I don't think Campese has proven anything yet.

At least Lyon had won a premiership at five eigth.

id much rather we go with Pearce at Halfback and either Sutton or Campese playing a classical 5/8th role

I'd prefer to see Pearce with somebody like Barrett who's been a proven performer in the Origin arena.

When Campese did get the ball, he was poor. Could barely get his kicks away and his passing game was poor. There were times where the Blues had the Maroons on the ropes and Campese would ruin it by putting in dinky little kicks that were easily fielded by Slater or Boyd.

That's not to say he should've been dropped, Wallace should've been but to say Campese didn't get a fair go is a lie. He had his chance and he blew it. The Blues selectors choosing to overlook Campese is not an injustice, if Terry was deserving he would be there. So far, he hasn't been.

 

[Bumble]

I still can't get my head around this "sutton is inconsistent" nonsense. He got 22 Dally M points last year and (i think) topped the league in try assists.

It's another one of these horrid catch-phrases that seems to stick, like 'origin player' and 'it's not his go'

what a joke.

 

[league]

I know. We need more Dragons players because they don't go missing in big games. We also need more players in key positions who can't set up tries, but 'have a go' and 'get stuck in' like Ennis and Kimmorley. What are line breaks and points when you can give away stupid penalties and kick the ball dead every time?

So which Dragons players didn't deserve their spot in Origin 1? Brett Morris is and was on fire, Cooper had been playing very well, Creagh has been consistent as f**k and Weyman remains the best prop forward available.

If you're reasoning for not picking Dragons players is because they go missing in big games, then we shouldn't even consider a Souffs player because they don't know what a big game is.

 

[hybrid_tiger]

Cooper didn't deserve it, and Creagh should be dropped. Morris and Weyman no arguments.