Josh Dugan Told To Shop Himself Around - Not happy with the Dragons.

[Belta]

The end of the day being a good defender, hard runner, consistent whole hearted player is great but it doesn't win you games and that's what it all comes down to in the end.

The difference between winning and losing a lot of games comes down to the key ball players making the right decisions, ie creating a repeat set on the opposition line, keeping the opposition pinned in their half with good long kicks, reading the numbers in defence, switching the direction of play to accomodate an error in the defensive line...our key play makers imo have not stepped up to the plate in this aspect of the game...

The Thurston, Cronk, Reynolds are payed the big bucks because control of the game. Their decision making has a major impact on the outcomes of their teams. 'As good as Dugan is his input good or bad rarely decide the outcomes of games. As most would agree I would love Duges to resign he offers so much, but I think he has been tabled a reasonable offer and I hope he reconsiders and signs with the Dragons who have paid him well over the last few years,

If he elects to leave, imo it's not doom and gloom, I'd say Widdop may also go, we have depth coming through and if they don't make the grade in 2018 then and only then look to add another spine player in 2019...for mine I think the talent is there with what we've got....a new coach and a host of talented juniors is the way to go...

 

[BringTheNoise]

Once again we low ball one of our best players.

If the club wants to look to the future then they should be up front and honest about that. But to offer a current NSW and Test player $100k less than what he is currently on (under an increasing salary cap) is just insulting.

No wonder Morris, Merrin, Bird etc have taken so much pleasure in leaving this club.

 

[SaintHarry]

We needed a quality halfback. Ben Hunt is a quality halfback. The club did what they needed to to get him. Did they pay overs? Of course they did but they got their man. If they didn't get Hunt the fans would be criticising the club then when they do get Hunt guess what? The fans criticise the club.......
Damned if you do damned if you don't!

If parra ended up signing him everyone would of been fuming even if they payed overs for him

 

[JohnnoMcJohnno]

There are very obviously three trains of thought here.
1. Those who think Duges is worth every bit of what we are paying him plus maybe more given his representative honours.
2. Those who think Duges is worth keeping but only on 1/2 to 2/3's of his current salary.
3. Those who think we should get rid of Duges and use the money to magically buy Bird or Tedesco.

I am firmly of the opinion that option 1 is the only way to go. Dugan is a state of origin fullback and an Australian representative winger and centre. To offer significantly less than what he is on now ie option 2 will just result in him leaving. Option 3 is just plain delusional.

 

[Crush]

Crush
Him being injury prone is a myth.
A good post written earlier about this.
A broken jaw or injured vertebra from a crush tackle etc are from foul play not from being injury prone.

Why does he roll around on the ground like he's injured then after every contact if he isn't injury prone? Most players just get up and play the ball.
It may be the way he plays the game, he runs the ball back hard and puts his body on the line, but he is prone to injury.
Maybe not injury prone like a mullen or benji with hamstring issues etc but Dugan is injury prone nonetheless.

 

[The Doc]

Dugan is on around $750-$800k per year at the moment.
Tedesco is asking for $900-$1m.
Dugan wants 5 years at $1.1m.
Is he worth $100-$200k more then tedesco?
Im a huge dugan fan, but he is NOT in the same ball park as tedesco.
Tedesco can do all the Dugan does AND he can pass and set up tries through backline plays.
Dugan is paid fullback money, but after stating he wants to play centre, he cant expect top fullback (which he isnt) money.
The issue is we are stacked with centres anyway.
With the depth we have in centres, we need be logical and assess do we sacrifice a youngster with 10 years ahead of him for a player with 3 if lucky 4 years left in the game?
Either outcome ill be ok with.

 

[TomRedVRiver]

I'd be comfortable with letting Dugan go if we follow his departure up with a BIG signing. I'm talking someone like Taumalolo, Bird, Tedesco or Peats.

If he really is asking that much then he needs to go anyway, but along with Widdop leaving (hopefully) we'll have enough cash in the bank to splurge a little bit.
Taumalolo would be my number 1 target.

 

[Jubileeboy]

I don't know why people believe all the crap that is written. You could be fairly sure neither Rothfield, Weirdler or anyone else from Fox has seen a contract on offer or been privy to conversations.
Extremely speculative reporting from poor quality journalists.

 

[Lewish33]

I don't understand people saying to let Dugan go and to use the money to sign Bird, Tedesco et al.

Just because we offer them money doesn't mean they'll magically come. They rarely do and we end up replacing representative players and players that put their heart and soul into the club for bog standard journeymen.

But hey, we saved a few bucks.

 

[The Doc]

I don't understand people saying to let Dugan go and to use the money to sign Bird, Tedesco et al.

Just because we offer them money doesn't mean they'll magically come. They rarely do and we end up replacing representative players and players that put their heart and soul into the club for bog standard journeymen.

But hey, we saved a few bucks.

If Dugan and Widdop were to go, i wouldnt be calling there replacements "bog standard journeymen".
Dufty and Field are juniors that would bleed red and white for ALOT less money.
And, when theres a salary cap... its all about saving a few bucks here and there...
And replacing widdop with field and dugan with dufty, you save ALOT OF BUCKS.

 

[Lewish33]

If Dugan and Widdop were to go, i wouldnt be calling there replacements "bog standard journeymen".
Dufty and Field are juniors that would bleed red and white for ALOT less money.
And, when theres a salary cap... its all about saving a few bucks here and there...
And replacing widdop with field and dugan with dufty, you save ALOT OF BUCKS.

While I am hugely excited about the likes of Field and Dufty, let's make sure they make it first before making them the teams saviours.

And if they do, and I hope they do, let's hope they don't ask for more money when they hit rep level, or they may end up out on their arses.

 

[The Doc]

While I am hugely excited about the likes of Field and Dufty, let's make sure they make it first before making them the teams saviours.

And if they do, and I hope they do, let's hope they don't ask for more money when they hit rep level, or they may end up out on their arses.

2017 will be a good year for them. We have players that can fill those positions in FG if Dufty and Field need time in the cutters.
So they wont be rushed one would think.
As far as the money goes, we need to be realistic. If dufty hits rep honours as fullback and/or Field hits rep honours at 5/8 or half... then they are entittled to be payed as such.
The issue with dugan is he wants to be a centre, at rep level is a centre and winger.
The top centres earn $500-600k....
As a fullback, he has Tedesco, Moylan, Hayne, Boyde, Inglis all way ahead of him.
These guys are on under $1m per year.
Him wanting $1.1m over 5 years shows he is taking advantage of us because we struggle in attack.
Why isnt he happy to stay on his current contract?
He was happy with amount when he signed.
Its not all the clubs fault, yes we have put ourselves in this situation, of having to pay overs to lure players.
But for dugan to now want $1.1m? No team in the NRL will pay that amount for him.

 

[getsmarty]

I'd be comfortable with letting Dugan go if we follow his departure up with a BIG signing. I'm talking someone like Taumalolo, Bird, Tedesco or Peats.

If he really is asking that much then he needs to go anyway, but along with Widdop leaving (hopefully) we'll have enough cash in the bank to splurge a little bit.
Taumalolo would be my number 1 target.

We already knocked Peats back last year.If Dugan leaves, Bird unlikely to come as he idolizes the Duges.

 

[Lewish33]

2017 will be a good year for them. We have players that can fill those positions in FG if Dufty and Field need time in the cutters.
So they wont be rushed one would think.
As far as the money goes, we need to be realistic. If dufty hits rep honours as fullback and/or Field hits rep honours at 5/8 or half... then they are entittled to be payed as such.
The issue with dugan is he wants to be a centre, at rep level is a centre and winger.
The top centres earn $500-600k....
As a fullback, he has Tedesco, Moylan, Hayne, Boyde, Inglis all way ahead of him.
These guys are on under $1m per year.
Him wanting $1.1m over 5 years shows he is taking advantage of us because we struggle in attack.
Why isnt he happy to stay on his current contract?
He was happy with amount when he signed.
Its not all the clubs fault, yes we have put ourselves in this situation, of having to pay overs to lure players.
But for dugan to now want $1.1m? No team in the NRL will pay that amount for him.

The truth is we don't really know what he is being offered. I've hear upwards of $100k less than he's currently on, to him wanting $1.1 mill for a long term deal. I'm sure the truth is in there somewhere.
If he's asking unrealistic $$ then I agree he should probably move on. If he's being lowballed then this is what I have issue with.

 

[Saints Forever]

My issue with Duges and Widdop is that as spine players they are supposed to make the difference between winning and losing.

OT rightly points out Duges probably saves 2 tries per game with his defence.

That represents 2 tries we don't need to score.

Problem is he contributed very little in attack last season from full back. Irrespective of how much these 2 established players want to sign new contracts, we need far more creative and fluid attacking players.

Our problem is the proposed replacements Dufty and Field have almost zero experience playing men.

We do have Mann and Nona. Its time to experiment.

There will be pain, but am very sure Dufty will if given a spot for half a season have 5 times the try assists Duges had for all of last season. A good coach would find a solution defensively when playing Dufty to cover any defensive deficiencies the kid may have.

 

[twinkletoes]

Why do these distractions always come up just before we start the season proper. The timing is impeccable to destabilise players just when they should be fully focused on the first games of the season. We seem to have a knack for this stuff as if we don't have enough problems as it is.... This also gives Mary another excuse for poor performances..

 

[Dragonslayer]

I mean who comes up with this crap, really. Where does it say he wants $1.1m and a 5yr deal?
It wasn't long ago he was quoted as saying he'd be happy with a 2 or 3 yr deal with the Dragons and wants to see out his career with us.
Now, because we signed Hunt on a 5yr deal everyone will be wanting one, hell lets sign up Marketo and Lafai or even extend Nighty for another 5yrs. Let's even sign up McGregor for 5yrs, I'm sure he's in talking with Dousty now.

The horrible truth with us at the moment is why we have to pay overs for players in the first place? Many people have stated that "we have to" to attract quality players. So why do we have to? The Dragons are one of the most prestigious sporting names in the world. The Red V envied by other teams, the success of 11 straight premierships, the history and great players who have donned the famous jersey. Players should be falling over themselves to play for us, not using us as a bargaining tool. Have we slumped so low now that the once feared Dragon fire is now nothing more than a puff of smoke?
Hunt should never have been signed on a 5yr deal, 3 with an option (in our favour) of 2 more maybe but not a straight out 5. Now the floodgates will open and if our current squad can't get what they want (using the Hunt model) they will go elsewhere to "test their value". Imagine Friz et al now wanting to secure their futures long term.
There is no guarantee that any player will be a success and long term signings are fraught with the danger of injury and form deterioration or even just no form at all. Add into the equation that that the salary cap cannot be centred around 1 person. Look at Manly for example. DCE mega deal, build the team around him, star quality player etc etc etc. So how was his 2016? and how did Manly go in the premiership?. Ah yes, 2017 will be a different story, but can anyone guarantee that, hand on heart! In reality Manly should be one of the favourites for the premiership this year, because they have a "quality" half leading them around.
To think Tedesco or even Bird will come to the Dragons is folly because again we will have to go for "overs" to even get them to a chat. As I said before, gone are the days when players would line up to play for us, now were just a retirement ATM and becoming nothing more than an ESL end of career option.

 

[St Georgio]

Parramatta will become a force again because they have hired some really smart men to run the ship.
The pure facts are the current board do not have the intelligence to run a successful modern day rugby league team, I am sure if we have well qualified personal that could do some proper number crunching we would retain Dugan and the youngsters coming through the grade.
The only guy I would retain is Mark Coyne, McGregor, Doust and Co should take a one way ticket to france !

 

[Gareth67]

If parra ended up signing him everyone would of been fuming even if they payed overs for him

I would lay my last dollar on Duges getting himself another NRL club to sign him , should we let him go . There will be no need for him to travel overseas ( except for a higher fee )
as I am sure that the suitors would be many .

Manly and the Rorters are 2 clubs that enjoy throwing a bit of money around , if it will buy them a premiership .

And as you have said SaintHarry , Parramatta also seems to have a spare dollar or two (?) . Dugan could replace Brett Stewart at Manly , Ferguson at the Rorters could have a few beers with his old mate . Whilst at the Eels , the Duges would create havoc for the opposition with Brad Arthur directing him .

Whatever team that signs Dugan would gain immensely with his talent , unfortunately here at the Dragons , that same talent has been collecting dust .

 

[giboz71]

The decision to retain Duges or let him go comes down to 3 factors.

Who will be coach, where will he play and which players are going to be around him. Currently, we pay him 700-800k to be our FB, with Widdop as his main playmaker and Mary as our coach. This has led to possibly one of the worst attacking Dragons side in recent memory. If this is going to be the status quo, this clearly has not worked so persisting with this is insanity.

We have Hunt coming next year but we don't know who will partner him in the halves, we still don't know who our coach is, and it is unclear whether Duges will play FB or not. These questions need to be answered before outlaying the sort of coin Dugan will command.