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Kiwis' tour chat

Messages
4,924
Benji's omission aside, if you don't believe the kiwis will reap the benefits for years to come from having taken Tui, Nikorima and Cherrington on this tour then you have rocks in your head. The Hiku thing is a joke though.

I mean shit, wouldn't it be nice in the future when someone like Luke, Foran or SJ goes down and we don't have to write off a series because we have zero depth?
 

JJ

Immortal
Messages
32,725
Benji's omission aside, if you don't believe the kiwis will reap the benefits for years to come from having taken Tui, Nikorima and Cherrington on this tour then you have rocks in your head. The Hiku thing is a joke though.

I mean shit, wouldn't it be nice in the future when someone like Luke, Foran or SJ goes down and we don't have to write off a series because we have zero depth?

Not sure anyone is saying that - but your second point I the key one, whether or not we win this series, we should have a proven half there to guide the youngsters and ensure that the work our forwards do is rewarded - we have three topline halves, two are hurt and one was left at home because coach either doesn't like him, or wants to play people that have not shown they can play in the halves in first grade...
 
Messages
4,924
Not sure anyone is saying that - but your second point I the key one, whether or not we win this series, we should have a proven half there to guide the youngsters and ensure that the work our forwards do is rewarded - we have three topline halves, two are hurt and one was left at home because coach either doesn't like him, or wants to play people that have not shown they can play in the halves in first grade...

When those involved with the Kiwis have come out and said that "Benji is all about Benji" then I'm not sure he's the right person to be mentoring those youngsters.
 

sup42

Juniors
Messages
2,466
If you were to blood halves (not talking Hiku either) for the future when would you do it?

If you're lucky you go into a test knowing already that one of either Foran or Johnson are missing.....so you pick your man then....ahead of time...

You could wait to be forced to during a game (no one carries a specialist half on thier bench with the sole aim of a Johnson or Foran being spelled) or lost.....that spots really for a utility player.

You could wait for the next test V a second tier nation (when's that happening ? .....the four nations.....so you lose a game where your regular pair should be doing that all important Kiwi tournament build up / familiarity thing).



You could pick a new halves pairing for a nostalgic type three test tour of England which won't change your world ranking if you lose.....it won't lose you any tournament title.....and by in large the League world will factor in the absence of your halves as a pretty good reason you were beaten by a more settled, more experienced, respectable England team.
 

sup42

Juniors
Messages
2,466
You blood one now, with Marshall...

I know it seems obvious.

But we are going to skin the cat another way, blood two.

I'm not trying to convince anyone on the Marshall thing. I just think Kearney's using this tour for experience ahead of win at all cost.

I don't buy into a belef that Kearney can't see Marshalls his best half, I think he knows he's risking losing the series for a bigger picture.
 

sup42

Juniors
Messages
2,466
Unfortunately, in the short term (this series) it could get a bit Ugly.

I rate this Pom team, I recon they are pretty close to us and Aus even at full strength.

If our boys push them hard, I recon it will be a good experience for the whole squad.

Surely the players have thier own thoughts about it....they must know they are gonna be up against it, they must realise they are going to have to pull something special out.

Could be character building at worst, Glory achieving at best.

They will walk away saying to themselves "wait till Shauny and Foz are back..irrespective of results.

Its also a celebration for these new kids, getting the endorsement should be special, even if we all are worried, its coming the time to get behind them no matter what.

Go the kiwis, make us proud boys.
 

Cloudsurfer

Juniors
Messages
1,184
Unfortunately, in the short term (this series) it could get a bit Ugly.

I rate this Pom team, I recon they are pretty close to us and Aus even at full strength.

If our boys push them hard, I recon it will be a good experience for the whole squad.

Surely the players have thier own thoughts about it....they must know they are gonna be up against it, they must realise they are going to have to pull something special out.

Could be character building at worst, Glory achieving at best.

They will walk away saying to themselves "wait till Shauny and Foz are back..irrespective of results.

Its also a celebration for these new kids, getting the endorsement should be special, even if we all are worried, its coming the time to get behind them no matter what.

Go the kiwis, make us proud boys.

Great post
 

Penrose Warrior

First Grade
Messages
9,467
Had a fair think about it and the blooding of new halves has probably been overplayed. If you look at 2014, when Havili started (?) at hooker, no one made a particular fuss of it - it was just an accepted part of a dearth due to injury. If Foran was playing, Tui would probably be the halfback and that's not something that could be avoided. It wouldn't be as big as what it's become.

Unfortunately now, there's two players who aren't club or international level in the halves, and honestly I don't think it'll benefit either of them much at all - especially when you consider both will return to different positions in 2016 for their clubs. They just won't benefit at all from limited build-up in the position (Tui slightly more given his late NRL stint), a new combination that won't be formed again, then not returning to those positions to build on any learning for years if ever.

The BS that I find is the marking of Benji's cards based on things that happened five years ago. I'm sure Stephen Kearney will desire a return to the NRL head coaching box at some stage and won't want to be judged on the person he was at the Eels.

Anyway, we'll see how Hiku/Lolohea go. Won't be watching - other priorities this weekend - and to be completely honest I'm not interested in how they go because it's not a portent for the future. I just hope we dominate the Poms in other areas so it becomes nt as important.
 

JJ

Immortal
Messages
32,725
Had a fair think about it and the blooding of new halves has probably been overplayed. If you look at 2014, when Havili started (?) at hooker, no one made a particular fuss of it - it was just an accepted part of a dearth due to injury. If Foran was playing, Tui would probably be the halfback and that's not something that could be avoided. It wouldn't be as big as what it's become.

Unfortunately now, there's two players who aren't club or international level in the halves, and honestly I don't think it'll benefit either of them much at all - especially when you consider both will return to different positions in 2016 for their clubs. They just won't benefit at all from limited build-up in the position (Tui slightly more given his late NRL stint), a new combination that won't be formed again, then not returning to those positions to build on any learning for years if ever.

The BS that I find is the marking of Benji's cards based on things that happened five years ago. I'm sure Stephen Kearney will desire a return to the NRL head coaching box at some stage and won't want to be judged on the person he was at the Eels.

Anyway, we'll see how Hiku/Lolohea go. Won't be watching - other priorities this weekend - and to be completely honest I'm not interested in how they go because it's not a portent for the future. I just hope we dominate the Poms in other areas so it becomes nt as important.

That's not the case here though - we have THREE halves of international quality, he chose to leave the third one out, play people that have no experience or demonstrated success in the halves, and we got well beaten...

He's the boss, but surely Lolohea would be better off with an experienced half alongside him??
 

Fast Eddie

First Grade
Messages
8,085
That's not the case here though - we have THREE halves of international quality, he chose to leave the third one out, play people that have no experience or demonstrated success in the halves, and we got well beaten...

He's the boss, but surely Lolohea would be better off with an experienced half alongside him??

I think the issue now is more that he is choosing to develop the wrong half.
 

Shaun Hewitt

First Grade
Messages
6,526
So who dropped off the bench from the named squad?
Nikorima and SST get game time?

I must say this game has flown well under the radar but I guess thats to be expected when your country wins the RWC final.

Is anyone else kind of underwhelmed by it all? I mean Radiosport didn't even cover it on the radio, just said to tune into iheartradio....not very good when your driving to work! (To their credit, they did give regular updates)
 

sup42

Juniors
Messages
2,466
So who dropped off the bench from the named squad?
Nikorima and SST get game time?

I must say this game has flown well under the radar but I guess thats to be expected when your country wins the RWC final.

Is anyone else kind of underwhelmed by it all? I mean Radiosport didn't even cover it on the radio, just said to tune into iheartradio....not very good when your driving to work! (To their credit, they did give regular updates)
it is underwhelming if you let the Culture of the media get away with it.
I never have.
I take annual leave from work when League tests are on, I live in a rugby league bubble. I watch Origin and support the blues, but I never buy into the hype over international footy.

Results have been miserable up until recent times....but now it feels like its all been worth it. England winning today is no surprise, so its not like some shock outcome or even too disappointing.

Its just the way it is till Johnson and Foran are fit. Even with those two....England are still good enough to beat NZ......to my way of thinking.....like us a few years back.....they are building to be a power in the game again......they have some of the best forwards in the world.....they have some exciting backs.

In the tests they have lost.....they have partly played themselves out of the contest.

Today's test is good for the sport in the same fashion our victories over the Roos were healthy for an all too insular code.

What's needed now is a NZ win in the second test......a sell out in the third.....and an epic contest where probably....for the sake of the sport....England win.

There after an England victory over Australia would really change the course of the sport. This would be an unheralded era for the game in modern times..

I can deal with thinking this way because I have watched league going from a reasonably real sport.....to being turned into a selfish, self interested club based entity with the overriding power residing in Australia.....the advent of origin has exponentially boosted the decline...if things don't change......the game will continue to shrink into the shadows and be underwhelming on the media landscape.

Its an incredible game with amazing athletes, this series is vital to its future purely because of what it stands for.....NZ and England doing something separate to self interested Australia.

Worst thing that could happen if we lose the series.....our prides a little dented.

Best thing that could happen if we lose yet still retain our ranking ?

We get invited back to sold out Stadiums. Some won't give a stuff about the ESL and the English game.....they should....it affects us and the future of the sport.

The reason there is a lack of vision regarding the world game....is short term greed.

In my ideal world...Aussie come to the party to claim their share of a profitable international new world order....to make that a reality....the competition has to be even....to draw interest.
 
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Matua

First Grade
Messages
5,226
I know it seems obvious.

But we are going to skin the cat another way, blood two.

I'm not trying to convince anyone on the Marshall thing. I just think Kearney's using this tour for experience ahead of win at all cost.

I don't buy into a belef that Kearney can't see Marshalls his best half, I think he knows he's risking losing the series for a bigger picture.
If that is true that is crap. There is no bigger picture than winning this series right now. I'm sick of hearing excuses every time we lose a serious in the UK.

I can't believe we just played a test with Hiku at 6. TBH after finally convincing me he was a decent player in the ANZAC test his form for Manly was shit - he shouldn't even be on this tour.
 

Penrose Warrior

First Grade
Messages
9,467
I've said it before, playing Tui and Hiku in the halves does nothing for experience. Both go back to the outside backs and forget about any learning in the position they got over 3 games, which I would argue is negligible in such an inexperienced pairing anyway and without a single halves mentor in the squad or coaching structure (as far as I know).

'Blooding players' doesn't happen by just sticking them in the jersey. It's far more pertinent to know the role on-field than just be in the environment. And those two ran around like headless chooks.

I can fairly well guarantee we'll look back in 5 years and see no value in what was done in that regard on this tour. And probably look back and say 3-0, what a waste of time and momentum.

Just when the Kiwis had risen to #1 and we all started thinking hooray for international league. I dunno, it just annoys the shit out of me. Play Nikorima there, at least he might play in the position before the decade is over.
 
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