What's new
The Front Row Forums

Register a free account today to become a member of the world's largest Rugby League discussion forum! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

KIWIS training squad

JJ

Immortal
Messages
32,736
Aside from the glaring lack of any halves, it's a strong looking team. Huge competition for the forwards, just astonishing the depth we have there
 

jaseg

Juniors
Messages
2,274
Yeah I thought both Kahu & Simona would have been picked - Beale is the odd one out IMO, and Kenny-Dowall I thought might have been left behind with his court thingo surely coming up?

Liu over Eastwood a surprise, and Mannering staying home seems to have allowed Kearney to bring both Glenn (thank god) and Brown (sigh). Harris looking more and more likely to play in the halves, although Hiku & Kahu are probably looking like (relatively) good options too.
 

Vic Mackey

Referee
Messages
25,461
Simona can play fullback, wing and center at first grade well and was as good as can be expected for Samoa at 7 against tonga. Guy went up a gear this year after playing well in the 4N last year, was samoas best in their lost v Australia. Shame for him he plays in an under performing side I guess. Guys in the better teams have always had an advantage in making rep teams.
 

sup42

Juniors
Messages
2,466
Can't believe people still doubt Kearney's ability.
Winning four straight over AUS has nothing to do with luck.
Taking NZ to number one Is the impossible dream achieved.

The kiwis make few crucial errors. They give away minimal penalties. There are no brain explosions.
Gone is the boofhead smash the Aussies mentality.

They play Australian style rugby league now.

Those massive changes can only come about over a long period of time under a coach that only picks players who will follow that game plan.

I wish Benji was playing, however he is inclined to do his own thing and when it comes off we win some finals over AU's....then revert to getting thumped in an ANZAC test (not blaming Marshall solely that would be too simplistic).

The kiwis consistency......win or lose....is by selection and coaching design.....the emphasis is on personnel type....do as you are told or NRL form will mean nothing come selection time.

I think the ANZAC test where Harris played six and Havili played nine....proved Kearney's point......those boys should never have been able to threaten Aussie.....they should have got flogged from the kick off.

That test also served to restore pride in the jumper....our third rate Kiwis team played a game plan that allowed them to perform well above expectation, Kearney would have been left in no doubt after that loss.....that should he pick his preferred line up.....surpassing Australia is well within his design.

This tour will be about the world cup. Like it or not, development of new blood makes sense with this opportunity.

The Aussies are a bit stuck just now, through limited investment in development, they have been too focused on the here and now, their squad is ageing and their coach has been put under too much pressure from his opposite.... Sheens has been sticking to the same old same old in order to keep his job.

Kearney has taken risks, his jobs secure, he can afford to put development ahead of maximizing his chances of winning this series.

If Kearney wins the series, I doubt he will convert too many detractors in any case.
 

JJ

Immortal
Messages
32,736
The detractors (me anyway) only argue he's done nothing to suggest he's an automatic success an NRL head coach (i.e., The Warriors should look for someone that's had success in that comp).

And second, to me it's foolhardy to leave your third world class (Benji's performances this year have been very good imo) out when the other two are injured. But moreso, if he doesn't want to ever pick him (or Wairea Hargreaves), that's fair enough given his (Kearney's) record, just say it - quite this (what appears to be) charade that he's in consideration
 
Messages
4,032
Surprising Eastwood and Manu Ma'u didn't make the side. Ma'u is the best backrower at the Eels and last year Kearney asked rookie Moeroa to come on the tour but Ma'u can't make it now?
 
Last edited:

sup42

Juniors
Messages
2,466
It's think its too easy to underestimate how hard it is to coach against the Kangaroos and get consistent results.
History shows that it is at least as difficult as winning a premiership....maybe harder

Factors that NRL coaches don't face include players defecting, few opportunities to develop your game plan with the same line up, suspensions, and arguably a perception that fifty fifty calls should go the way of the Monster that is Australian rugby league (the warriors may be an exception).

How many NRL coaches go into games regularly knowing they have to fly in players from England and play them the next day ?

Kearney has aligned himself with Bellamy and Bennet, people might think that shows he has had advantage in ways that make him some kind of 'programmed clone'.....even if true...to my mind it just shows Kearney is smart enough to sell himself as an able assistant to the best.

Hollywood likes to make films about Guys Like Kearney....coaches who are not among the elite.....that find a way to win.

Just on Marshall, why do people think Foran was invisible when paired with the enigmatic Benji ?

What is the likelyhood one of the baby halves paired with Benji will learn how to play an inclusive unselfish game ?

How likely would that noob half get to influence the game ?

I think Kearney gave up on Benji when he saw star half Kieran Foran dissapear in games and get over called.

Imagine the discussion about the lack of chemistry between those two....they played together often.....Im guessing Foran would have said something about his halves partner.

Johnson on the other hand came along and offered a contrast to Marshall....both are gifted game breakers.....but Johnson plays un selfish tactics better (in goal kicks is the most obvious team oriented play) and the kiwi culture under Kearney is one of unselfish play.

I'd wager a large sum that after the lessons of the last world cup......Stephen Kearney will never pick players with big egos (unless they change) ever again.

If SBW were available I doubt he would ever get picked, JWH always struggled to meet the no ego standard and very well may never play again....Konrad Hurrell...even in form.....would look out of place in terms of personality type in the Kearney system.

If you go through the line ups Kearney uses.....it is a long road back for big heads to make the squad ( just look at how Luke struggled historically to get more play time than TL.....Adam Blair ? ).

So while people scratched their heads at the use of Taylor and Mckendry in the past.....it all makes sense to me now. They aren't sexy players.....they are bots at best....still....bots/workhorses listen. Teams that listen to Kearney win four in,a row.....teams that are into this brotherhood bull get embarrassed in world cup finals stoned on pills.

Which is why Kearney survived the witch hunt from the NZRL and others will never play again.....neither will like minded personalities ever pull on the black jumper under Kearney's reign.

Kearney's not dumb he knows Marshall is his best half....folk have forgotten who made Marshall Captain......they've forgotten Marshall admitting being captain was about being a team player.
 
Last edited:

spear tackle

Juniors
Messages
1,176
And that is the biggest load of bullshit I have ever read. Nikau has lost any respect he had left. The whole thing smacks of a vendetta. Doesn't fit the culture...f**k me dead. Get real you turkeys.


I found it a little ironic since Nikau spent more time withdrawing from Kiwi sides than actually playing for them, and yes it does sound more like a vendetta.
 

MKEB...

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
5,988
The same article said the same thing about JWH and $BW. JWH is still young, I would hate for that to proclude him from being in the Kiwis ever again.
 
Messages
857
How unprofessional of Nikau. Fair game (sort of) writing off Benji in public - just because he's obviously past it and not a first choice pick with a healthy squad. But SBW and JWH could still be big players in our 2017 World Cup campaign, and he's attacking their character in the media (justified or not).
 

lafai

Bench
Messages
2,810
Lol SBW will be lucky to make the Sevens team for NZ next year let alone the Kiwis world cup team. But yeah JWH could be the out and out best forward in the comp in 2 years
 

Matua

First Grade
Messages
5,246
It's think its too easy to underestimate how hard it is to coach against the Kangaroos and get consistent results.
History shows that it is at least as difficult as winning a premiership....maybe harder

Factors that NRL coaches don't face include players defecting, few opportunities to develop your game plan with the same line up, suspensions, and arguably a perception that fifty fifty calls should go the way of the Monster that is Australian rugby league (the warriors may be an exception).

How many NRL coaches go into games regularly knowing they have to fly in players from England and play them the next day ?

Kearney has aligned himself with Bellamy and Bennet, people might think that shows he has had advantage in ways that make him some kind of 'programmed clone'.....even if true...to my mind it just shows Kearney is smart enough to sell himself as an able assistant to the best.

Hollywood likes to make films about Guys Like Kearney....coaches who are not among the elite.....that find a way to win.

Just on Marshall, why do people think Foran was invisible when paired with the enigmatic Benji ?

What is the likelyhood one of the baby halves paired with Benji will learn how to play an inclusive unselfish game ?

How likely would that noob half get to influence the game ?

I think Kearney gave up on Benji when he saw star half Kieran Foran dissapear in games and get over called.

Imagine the discussion about the lack of chemistry between those two....they played together often.....Im guessing Foran would have said something about his halves partner.

Johnson on the other hand came along and offered a contrast to Marshall....both are gifted game breakers.....but Johnson plays un selfish tactics better (in goal kicks is the most obvious team oriented play) and the kiwi culture under Kearney is one of unselfish play.

I'd wager a large sum that after the lessons of the last world cup......Stephen Kearney will never pick players with big egos (unless they change) ever again.

If SBW were available I doubt he would ever get picked, JWH always struggled to meet the no ego standard and very well may never play again....Konrad Hurrell...even in form.....would look out of place in terms of personality type in the Kearney system.

If you go through the line ups Kearney uses.....it is a long road back for big heads to make the squad ( just look at how Luke struggled historically to get more play time than TL.....Adam Blair ? ).

So while people scratched their heads at the use of Taylor and Mckendry in the past.....it all makes sense to me now. They aren't sexy players.....they are bots at best....still....bots/workhorses listen. Teams that listen to Kearney win four in,a row.....teams that are into this brotherhood bull get embarrassed in world cup finals stoned on pills.

Which is why Kearney survived the witch hunt from the NZRL and others will never play again.....neither will like minded personalities ever pull on the black jumper under Kearney's reign.

Kearney's not dumb he knows Marshall is his best half....folk have forgotten who made Marshall Captain......they've forgotten Marshall admitting being captain was about being a team player.
Jesus Sup, two novels there in defence of Kearney, are you a relative or his paid personal fluffer? You should get a job as a script writer in hollywood as it appears all you're missing is a sweeping Hans Zimmer score.

Some odd stuff in their too - so Luke and Blair are big egos but they're co-captaincy material?

People scratch their heads about Taylor and McKendry? Um no, they're good players who are able fill ins when our superstar pack has got a few injuries.

Johnson is all about the selfish plays, but that's what makes him awesome, he's an off the cuff player.

As for all this likelihood of the young half doing this and that, I repeat this again - this is not a development tour, it's a Kiwi tour, it should be the best players available in this country.

And as for Benji, you're talking about a player from 4 years ago, it appears you, much like Kearney and Nikau haven't watched Benji play a game of league in the last two seasons.

And, if you'd have watched Benji over those past two seasons that's he's nothing like the selfish player you're suggesting he is.
 

sup42

Juniors
Messages
2,466
Jesus Sup, two novels there in defence of Kearney, are you a relative or his paid personal fluffer? You should get a job as a script writer in hollywood as it appears all you're missing is a sweeping Hans Zimmer score.

Some odd stuff in their too - so Luke and Blair are big egos but they're co-captaincy material?

People scratch their heads about Taylor and McKendry? Um no, they're good players who are able fill ins when our superstar pack has got a few injuries.

Johnson is all about the selfish plays, but that's what makes him awesome, he's an off the cuff player.

As for all this likelihood of the young half doing this and that, I repeat this again - this is not a development tour, it's a Kiwi tour, it should be the best players available in this country.

And as for Benji, you're talking about a player from 4 years ago, it appears you, much like Kearney and Nikau haven't watched Benji play a game of league in the last two seasons.

And, if you'd have watched Benji over those past two seasons that's he's nothing like the selfish player you're suggesting he is.
You wax lyrical fairly well yourself, the score from Titanic comes to mind.
Marshalls playing style has changed, agreed on that. When there is a history between player and coach, sometimes its best to move on. Perhaps Kearney is once bitten (he nearly lost his job over a bunch of dickheads that disrespected him, the Jersey, and fans by taking a bunch of sleeping pills on the eve of a WC final).....twice shy now. Benji may play a different game....but can Kearney really afford the influence in camp of someone he's had negative experience of ? Obviously Benji had nothing to do with the WC, but that experience has likely hardened Kearney's resolve to look at personality type as much as form.

Perhaps he is intolerant, perhaps he's going too far, but he's changed this team for the better no question.

He does have the experience of picking on form above other considerations (he allowed SBW to bugger around then take Tohu's first cap because of the pulling power and fan pleaser aspect of that decision).

Those type of decisions (bending to fan pressure and a players status) back fired on him horribly, he nearly lost his job over the party culture of that playing group....it made him look weak and out of touch within his camp.

Loose cannons can be reigned in by giving them responsibility, that's where I was coming from with Luke and Blair sharing the leadership.

Mckendry and and Taylor were selected ahead of more dynamic players in the past.....those selections were unpopular at that time, that's the swings and roundabouts of coaching.

This tour is about team culture, looking forward. They can afford to take risks and back thier model ts working for them.
 

Latest posts

Top