LACK OF DEPTH?

[dimitri]

why is it that rugby yawnion teams need to call on rugby league players for their "3rd biggest sporting event in the world" :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Tonga coach Jim Love has omitted rugby league wingers Lesley Vainikolo and Tevita Vaikona from his World Cup squad because of club commitments.
Vainikolo and Vaikona, who have helped Bradford Bulls into the Super League play-offs, were included in Tonga's initial 50-man training squad.

But the Bulls have ruled out the pair by refusing to release them until their season is over, which could be as late as 18 October.

Tonga begin their World Cup campaign against Italy on 14 October and face further pool games against Wales, New Zealand and Canada.

Love has named just four home-based players in the 30-man squad for the tournament in Australia.

Nine of the squad play regularly in New Zealand's National Provincial Championship, seven are based in Australia and the remainder play professionally in Japan, Britain and France.

The side will be captained by Japan-based forward Inoke Afeaki, who had a long Super-12 career with the Wellington Hurricanes.

Former ACT Brumbies number eight Ipolito Fenukitau is also included.

Scrum-half Sililo Martens, who took part in Bridgend's successful Welsh championship campaign last season, will give the squad experience behind the scrum.

 

[TheFirstRabbitoh]

These guys are both originally union players.

They're good union players too, why wouldn't you want them in the squad if they were available?

 

[Mint Condition]

Yeah, it's easy to forget that there were more than a few Rugby Union players in the last league world cup isn't it. Someone told me a handful played for the Welsh league team which pushed Australia in the semi finals. Is that true?

As for Tonga, the majority of their players are amateur and semi-pro so obviously their conditioning and fitness etc is going to be less than fully professional players so why wouldn't they pick these players that are in better shape than the majority of their squad? As the poster above said, they have union backgrounds so they understand the game. Tonga would have been stupid to not at least try.

 

[Stevo_G]

it is stupid i doubt that league would be able to pick union players if rugby league had a world cup
different rules for each code

 

[dimitri]

Someone told me a handful played for the Welsh league team which pushed Australia in the semi finals. Is that true?

no that is not true

some players have gone on to yawnion eg llestyn harris

and the coach had coached yawnion before i think

but none of the players were actually contracted yawnion players at the time

 

[TheFirstRabbitoh]

They may not have been playing club union at the time, but pretty much anyone who plays league in Wales has played union as well.

The thing is, sheer weight of numbers makes it a lot more attractive for a place like Wales to recruit union players to its league ranks than the other way around.

60k Welsh playing union - only about 3-4k playing league. If you're putting together a national league side you're going to think about bringing in guys who aren't quite making the firsts squad for the national union side.

 

[dimitri]

If you're putting together a national league side you're going to think about bringing in guys who aren't quite making the firsts squad for the national union side

sounds like the wallabies and super 12 teams with their raids on league

lenny becket
duncan mcrae etc etc

 

[TheFirstRabbitoh]

Why wouldn't you?

If you see someone playing a similar code who isn't getting a game for his country, why wouldn't you try to nab him if you thought he'd adapt easily?

 

[dimitri]

its called developing your own players


something yawnion has no concept of

 

[roopy]

Last time Mark Hughes from the Newcastle Knights renewed his League contract he had a serious offer to sign for the Welsh Rugby Union. (Welsh parents make him available for selection in Welsh side.)

 

[Te Kaha]

its called developing your own players


something yawnion has no concept of

I always find this comment laughable considering the amount of Union players who have been signed by league clubs over the years.

 

[TheFirstRabbitoh]

Tell me about it...

But the thing is, there are a lot of people out there who believe what they want to - regardless of any common sense or logic.

Dimitri, explain exactly how you claim union doesn't develop its own players?

Considering your initial claim collapsed as you obviously weren't aware that it was a matter of union bringing players back to union who originally had been poached by league?

 

[Te Kaha]

Considering your initial claim collapsed as you obviously weren't aware that it was a matter of union bringing players back to union who originally had been poached by league?

Thats not true either. While both have played Union, their first love has always been League. It is more comman than not for players to play both codes growing up in NZ.

 

[dimitri]

Tell me about it...

But the thing is, there are a lot of people out there who believe what they want to - regardless of any common sense or logic.

Dimitri, explain exactly how you claim union doesn't develop its own players?

Considering your initial claim collapsed as you obviously weren't aware that it was a matter of union bringing players back to union who originally had been poached by league?

have alook at the super 12 teams

you'll know what i mean

;-) ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-)

 

[Te Kaha]

Tell me about it...

But the thing is, there are a lot of people out there who believe what they want to - regardless of any common sense or logic.

Dimitri, explain exactly how you claim union doesn't develop its own players?

Considering your initial claim collapsed as you obviously weren't aware that it was a matter of union bringing players back to union who originally had been poached by league?

have alook at the super 12 teams

you'll know what i mean

Ex-First or reserve grade players in Super 12 teams?

None in the Blues, Hurricanes, Highlanders, Chiefs, Bulls, Sharks, Stomers. There is one in the Crusaders. But he would rather be an All Black than a Kangaroo. there are 12 in the Ausie teams.

So in the super 12 with the 9 squads of 25 and 3 of 30 thats 12 out of 315 Players or just under 4%.

Wow your right soooooooo many League players.

 

[Auckland4ever]

Dimitri, you're only looking at things from an Aussie perspective, & arent casting your eyes back far enough. RL has pinched countless more players from union over the years. Welsh RU has been pillaged by RL over time.

Tonga is a tiny nation & their union is cash strapped like their fellow PI unions, so its no surprise they're struggling for depth. I dont blame them for trying to get Vainikolo & Vaikona.

I agree though, there is no way the RU world cup is the "3rd biggest sporting event'.
However, even if the cup turns out to be a disaster as a spectacle, e.g Aussie exit early & crowds dwindle, it will not come close to the debacle that was the last RL "world" cup. RU can boast legitimate international competition. RL, as great as it is, is little more than a club game.

 

[Alan Shore]

They may not have been playing club union at the time, but pretty much anyone who plays league in Wales has played union as well.

The thing is, sheer weight of numbers makes it a lot more attractive for a place like Wales to recruit union players to its league ranks than the other way around.

60k Welsh playing union - only about 3-4k playing league. If you're putting together a national league side you're going to think about bringing in guys who aren't quite making the firsts squad for the national union side.

Yawnion in Wales has collapsed. The Welsh RU is virtually bankrupt, and the noew financially insecure RU clubs are jumping ship to League before they go as well. A Welsh team will be in the ESL within the decade.

 

[TheFirstRabbitoh]

Collapsed?

Exactly what you basing that on?

...Bears a nasty resemblance to AFL fans saying that rugby league in NSW is collapsing.

I heard plenty of people complain that professionalism has changed the community vibe of Welsh club rugby - but no one I've spoken to from Wales has said it's collapsing.

The country's going mad over the world cup (be even more so if the national side wasn't playing like crap).

 

[bayrep]

Collapsed?

Exactly what you basing that on?

...Bears a nasty resemblance to AFL fans saying that rugby league in NSW is collapsing.

I heard plenty of people complain that professionalism has changed the community vibe of Welsh club rugby - but no one I've spoken to from Wales has said it's collapsing.

The country's going mad over the world cup (be even more so if the national side wasn't playing like crap).

Where abouts are you based TFR ?, I haven’t talked to any Welsh people over the last 2 years, but from the impressions you get through the media the Welsh community aren’t to happy over the state of Rugby in their country, Especially as they were in the top 3-4 teams in the world only 20-30 years ago. They used to d1ck English rugby on a continuing base. The league snapped up their top players during the 80's and they have never recovered.

I think its fantastic that they can still feel excited about the RWC when they know their team has a good chance of not progressing out of the pool.

 

[TheFirstRabbitoh]

I'm based in Melbourne, but I've got mates in Wales (Aberystwyth and further north). The general impression I get from them is that they're still passionate about the game, just a lot have been disillusioned by professionalism, saying that it's killed off a lot of the culture and patriotism that there was pre 90s - players are ditching local clubs for the lure of $$$.

You can't dump an amateur competition into a professional scene and expect it to continue on without major restructuring... But still, it remains no 1 in Wales.