Leigh in serious trouble

[SalfordRedsWA]

Two club directors have resigned and the official website is off stating the bills to be paid.
Oh dear, Super League was way ahead of them. :roll:

 

[Weasels Ripped My Flesh]

After Castleford make it back and UTC are in, somthing seriously needs to be done about the relegation system :?

 

[Matt M]

How on earth were they allowed into Super League? They are tragic. There are plenty of other teams that would be better than them in the Super League.

 

[bartman]

I'm not sure there were any teams in NL1 that would be faring any better in Super League this year.

I'm all for promotion/relegation as a concept, because it gives teams at the bottom of the ladder something to keep playing for, as well as career path for clubs who weren't in Super League's original plans.

But the way that promotion and relegation is currently done needs to be looked at. No easy answers, but teams coming up need an equal shot at the player market somehow for it to work...

 

[Matt M]

I'm not sure there were any teams in NL1 that would be faring any better in Super League this year.

I'm all for promotion/relegation as a concept, because it gives teams at the bottom of the ladder something to keep playing for, as well as career path for clubs who weren't in Super League's original plans.

But the way that promotion and relegation is currently done needs to be looked at. No easy answers, but teams coming up need an equal shot at the player market somehow for it to work...

How about Castleford or Halifax? They have both been in ESL before and while not setting the world on fire, they were often very competent teams with quite good crowds

 

[bartman]

Castleford are going strong in terms of crowd support, financial backing and performances so far, having chosen to remain a full-time squad in the largely part-time pro NL1. They were in SL last season but played poor enough to get dropped, though (my) expectations are they shopuld come stright back up.

As for Halifax, the same situation happened to them a year earlier, but they weren't able to maintain a full-time squad in NL1 (weren't as strong a position as Cas in finances and crowds), and ended up finishing second last in NL1 instead of competing to go back up. (In fact they were lucky not to be dropped to NL2, only escaping due to a 16 point comback in the last ten minutes of their last match.)

For the promotion spot it was between Leigh and Whitehaven, and because of the way the system is (mostly part-time clubs in NL1, not being able to plan if they're going to go up to superleague until grand final week) I think any promoted club (except Cas next year?) would be struggling on field.

 

[t-ba]

Promotion should be decided at the end of the H&A season imo, maybe with the second best team having immediate right of challenge. an 18 week H&A season starting at the beginning of February would give the promoted club a much better chance. Gives them the last 10 weeks of super League to organise a squad for next year, though that would probably be catastrophic on the gates.

In an ideal world, It'd be nice if SL got payed what it was worth in the TV deals too. It seems to kill the ZzzzzzZP ratings wise but gets an absolute pittance. If they had enough cash they could run a 14 team H&A Super League with an 8 team halfway league (Full time squads with some TV money behind them) so that the jump was nowhere near as drastic as it is now.

I think P&R is required, but something needs to be done about the massive gulf between the NL's and SL. But I'm afraid without money that's simply not possible.

 

[Red Bear]

Hasnt Ferris now quit?

 

[bartman]

Yep, Ferris has called it quits mid-season apparently?

 

[Matt M]

Castleford are going strong in terms of crowd support, financial backing and performances so far, having chosen to remain a full-time squad in the largely part-time pro NL1. They were in SL last season but played poor enough to get dropped, though (my) expectations are they shopuld come stright back up.

As for Halifax, the same situation happened to them a year earlier, but they weren't able to maintain a full-time squad in NL1 (weren't as strong a position as Cas in finances and crowds), and ended up finishing second last in NL1 instead of competing to go back up. (In fact they were lucky not to be dropped to NL2, only escaping due to a 16 point comback in the last ten minutes of their last match.)

For the promotion spot it was between Leigh and Whitehaven, and because of the way the system is (mostly part-time clubs in NL1, not being able to plan if they're going to go up to superleague until grand final week) I think any promoted club (except Cas next year?) would be struggling on field.

Alright they might struggle off fieldn, but at least they have a potentially strong financial position, sponsors, good crowds and a proper stadium. Surely it would be better for Rugby League that Castleford or Halifax were in the Super League, instead of us wasting a year with Leigh. We should just pick the 12 sides that will make the Super League the best possible competition then stick with them.

 

[bartman]

But it would need to be reviewed regularly somehow, so that changes to that 12 can take place if warranted. SL can't just be a closed shop forever, otherwise the other clubs would have no incentive to develop or even to try for success in their leagues. You'd lose the grass roots which over here are much more important (as it's not the dominant sport in the media etc)

I agree they have to think about how they do it all from now on though. I expect Cas will come back into SL and take Leigh's spot next year, if Cas' cup form is anything to go by. Don't know who else will drop down for the French side to come in next year though - maybe Widnes?

 

[popman]

Castleford are going strong in terms of crowd support, financial backing and performances so far, having chosen to remain a full-time squad in the largely part-time pro NL1. They were in SL last season but played poor enough to get dropped, though (my) expectations are they shopuld come stright back up.

As for Halifax, the same situation happened to them a year earlier, but they weren't able to maintain a full-time squad in NL1 (weren't as strong a position as Cas in finances and crowds), and ended up finishing second last in NL1 instead of competing to go back up. (In fact they were lucky not to be dropped to NL2, only escaping due to a 16 point comback in the last ten minutes of their last match.)

For the promotion spot it was between Leigh and Whitehaven, and because of the way the system is (mostly part-time clubs in NL1, not being able to plan if they're going to go up to superleague until grand final week) I think any promoted club (except Cas next year?) would be struggling on field.

Alright they might struggle off fieldn, but at least they have a potentially strong financial position, sponsors, good crowds and a proper stadium. Surely it would be better for Rugby League that Castleford or Halifax were in the Super League, instead of us wasting a year with Leigh. We should just pick the 12 sides that will make the Super League the best possible competition then stick with them.

10 years in the wilderness and we're expected to be competing with 3 months prep??? Get real.
Give us 10 years of SL and we'll have 10,000 crowds to fill our newly built stadium ( opening 2007 by the way) - and believe me Cas are NOT in a strong financial position. They came last and deserved relegation as Leigh deserved peromotion, if the roles are reversed at the end of this season so be it - Cas will come back a stronger club for it, as proven by Salford & Huddersfield after there respective sojourn to the dark side.

 

[Matt M]

Castleford are going strong in terms of crowd support, financial backing and performances so far, having chosen to remain a full-time squad in the largely part-time pro NL1. They were in SL last season but played poor enough to get dropped, though (my) expectations are they shopuld come stright back up.

As for Halifax, the same situation happened to them a year earlier, but they weren't able to maintain a full-time squad in NL1 (weren't as strong a position as Cas in finances and crowds), and ended up finishing second last in NL1 instead of competing to go back up. (In fact they were lucky not to be dropped to NL2, only escaping due to a 16 point comback in the last ten minutes of their last match.)

For the promotion spot it was between Leigh and Whitehaven, and because of the way the system is (mostly part-time clubs in NL1, not being able to plan if they're going to go up to superleague until grand final week) I think any promoted club (except Cas next year?) would be struggling on field.

Alright they might struggle off fieldn, but at least they have a potentially strong financial position, sponsors, good crowds and a proper stadium. Surely it would be better for Rugby League that Castleford or Halifax were in the Super League, instead of us wasting a year with Leigh. We should just pick the 12 sides that will make the Super League the best possible competition then stick with them.

10 years in the wilderness and we're expected to be competing with 3 months prep??? Get real.
Give us 10 years of SL and we'll have 10,000 crowds to fill our newly built stadium ( opening 2007 by the way) - and believe me Cas are NOT in a strong financial position. They came last and deserved relegation as Leigh deserved peromotion, if the roles are reversed at the end of this season so be it - Cas will come back a stronger club for it, as proven by Salford & Huddersfield after there respective sojourn to the dark side.

But Salford and Huddersfield have come back strongly because they are potentially a big club. Leigh just aren't a big enough club to be in Super League.

Promotion/Relegation doesn't help rugby league in anyway in England, it should be scrapped as soon as possible.

 

[popman]

Castleford are going strong in terms of crowd support, financial backing and performances so far, having chosen to remain a full-time squad in the largely part-time pro NL1. They were in SL last season but played poor enough to get dropped, though (my) expectations are they shopuld come stright back up.

As for Halifax, the same situation happened to them a year earlier, but they weren't able to maintain a full-time squad in NL1 (weren't as strong a position as Cas in finances and crowds), and ended up finishing second last in NL1 instead of competing to go back up. (In fact they were lucky not to be dropped to NL2, only escaping due to a 16 point comback in the last ten minutes of their last match.)

For the promotion spot it was between Leigh and Whitehaven, and because of the way the system is (mostly part-time clubs in NL1, not being able to plan if they're going to go up to superleague until grand final week) I think any promoted club (except Cas next year?) would be struggling on field.

Alright they might struggle off fieldn, but at least they have a potentially strong financial position, sponsors, good crowds and a proper stadium. Surely it would be better for Rugby League that Castleford or Halifax were in the Super League, instead of us wasting a year with Leigh. We should just pick the 12 sides that will make the Super League the best possible competition then stick with them.

10 years in the wilderness and we're expected to be competing with 3 months prep??? Get real.
Give us 10 years of SL and we'll have 10,000 crowds to fill our newly built stadium ( opening 2007 by the way) - and believe me Cas are NOT in a strong financial position. They came last and deserved relegation as Leigh deserved peromotion, if the roles are reversed at the end of this season so be it - Cas will come back a stronger club for it, as proven by Salford & Huddersfield after there respective sojourn to the dark side.

But Salford and Huddersfield have come back strongly because they are potentially a big club. Leigh just aren't a big enough club to be in Super League.

Promotion/Relegation doesn't help rugby league in anyway in England, it should be scrapped as soon as possible.

Its true to assume that Salford & Huddersfield have the potential to be big clubs, but alas the reality is they wont be. 10 years (minus 1) of SL and neither of these clubs fan base have grown. Salford is a city, and at best attracts crowds of 4000 - 5000, how many clubs have Sidney and yet look at how many fans they attract even the ones outside the NRL!!! Salford are struggling to compete with Man Utd & Man City, the proposed move to a 30,000 all seater stadium is a complete farce - with the best will in the world Salford will never be a 'big' club. As for Huddersfield, the town is 4 times bigger than Leigh yet attract only slightly bigger crowds, a move to the new stadium a few years back did nothing for their attendances - a big club? Definately not. Give Leigh half the time both these clubs have spent in SL and I'll show you a bigger club.
I must admit there are some strong arguments to scrap P&R, but P&R only has been exsisting in reality for the last 4 seasons. Prior to that the 'promoted' teams didn't meet SL criteria and weren't allowed in, therefore Huddersfield escaped relegation for quite a few seasons. Yet did this improve our game nationally - no we had clubs go bust, no we had forced mergers, no we were still getting tonked by the aussie national team.
Dont get me wrong, I agree the whole system needs looking at (after all 3 months prep for ANY promoted side isn't long enough). An aussie franchise system in the UK is not the answer, more time for a promoted team to prepare is the answer.

 

[bartman]

Good points popman. I'm a fan of promotion and relegation, just need to make it work "properly" (somehow) so the that benefits are realised, in my opinion.

 

[Paul-The-Cowboy]

From :

http://forums.leagueunlimited.com/viewtopic.php?t=53753

The great debate

Super League. The promised land where the thousands of rugby league fans across the country hope their team will reach one day.

Summer rugby. Trips to magnificent, modern day stadiums such as the KC, JJB and Halliwell Jones Stadium. Coverage of their team’s games on TV. National exposure. Watching internationals fight it out week in, week out.

Of course, for many of these fans, their dreams will remain just that. With relegated teams tending to go full time in the part time National Leagues, the battle to win promotion is a tough one for the minnows and sleeping giants of British Rugby League.

Leigh Centurions won this battle last season. But their first year back in the big time has been one of immense struggle. Lower than expected home crowds (partly due to the restrictions imposed on them by GMR Police and a new kick off time for them), the departure of 2 directors, new signing Jason Ferris walking out due to homesickness, losing their first 7 games, and facing stern criticism from Super League fans, have all conspired to root Leigh to the bottom of the table.

A dramatic 24-22 win over London has offered a glimmer of hope and could prove to kick start their season. But is it too much nowadays to expect promoted teams to compete in the ESL when they have so many factors working against them?

First of all, the jump from part time to full time is a massive ask. From the coaching staff to the playing staff, who will have had to give up their jobs in order to get fit enough to compete against world class athletes such as Paul Sculthorpe, Danny Maguire, Stuart Fielden et all.

And of course, major recruiting is essential to make the jump from NL 1 to ESL. To replace those who do not want to go full time, to add experience to the squad, and most importantly to add enough talent to the squad to make them competitive.

This is perhaps the toughest task of all. With the NL 1 Grand Final being played on the same weekend as the ESL Grand Final, promoted teams can only start making firm plans for Super League in October. As Leigh have unfortunately found out, all the best players have been snapped up by other ESL clubs by then and the remaining player market is made up of unwanted players and journeymen.

Many have called for the abolition of promotion and relegation and to adopt the system that the NRL has in place. But would this really work in England?

It is a part of our sporting culture to reward clubs with promotion. There was outrage when Huddersfield stayed up after finishing bottom of the table in consecutive years. Even from many of the Huddersfield fans! This extends to other sports such as Rugby Union and Soccer when a team is denied promotion.

Soccer is like a religion over here. Only in South America and similar outposts is the game as huge. And soccer, the number 1 sport in England, has a promotion and relegation system in place at every level.

Maybe in the future, the somewhat “alien” concept of scrapping promotion and relegation will be needed as the gap between Super League and the National Leagues increases. But my fear is that, followers of the lower clubs will no longer have their dreams to hold on to and could be lost to the game. Especially in some of the forgotten rugby league hotbed areas where there is a mine of talent (Leigh for example).

I’d like to see other options tried and tested before taking this big step. My own suggestion is to move the National League seasons back a few months, allowing promoted clubs more time to prepare for ESL and allowing clubs to have a fairer crack at the transfer market.

It’s always a shame to lose big clubs such as Castleford to relegation. But they’ll come back stronger. Just as Huddersfield and Salford have from their short stints in the National League.

And can we really take away those distant dreams, the aspirations and ambitions, and the promised land of Super League away from the supporters of clubs who originally missed out on ESL? And the drama of relegation that gives the lower ESL clubs something to play for? Who knows whether a closed competition would work in England. And whether that’s the way that Super League is heading.