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Let's be realistic

Big Mick

Referee
Messages
26,318
I know a bunch of you are pissed off about how the team is going. But the fact of the matter is we haven't had the same 17 run out consistently each week at all this year. If there was it would have been a significantly weakened squad.

Factors of a weaker roster & injuries have clearly impacted us and without any continuity no team is going to succeed. There is a reason that 9/10 times the team that wins the comp is the team has the least amount of injuries during a season.

Let us focus on what has been good so far in 2012:

- Our juniors are going really well in the Harold Matthews & SG Ball. Both squads did well this year and there looks to be a few genuine shots at first grade there.

- Our Toyota Cup squad has been competitive & winning for the first team since the initial year of the competition's formation. We have about 4-5 guys from that squad at least capable of transitioning to first grade.

- Our NSW Cup team is staked and is playing extremely well right now and we are building better depth for the team going forward.

- We have unearthed a few potential first graders who have had limited time in grade that were unheralded signings looking for opportunity (Matt Robinson, Ryan Simpkins, Josh Mansour, Etu Uaisele, Mitch Achurch)

- We have been active in the market already for next season signing a genuine current International backrower in Lewis Brown. When was the last time this happened at Penrith??

Those are just a few of the things.

Sure we can focus on the negative all you want. That Galea, Newton & Ciraldo look like ordinary signings..but realistically they'd be depth if we were full strength.

You can focus on the fact that they have re-signed Tighe & Walsh and yeah that might be a mistake in the long run...but for what they are on...meh.

You can focus on the fact that Mick Gordon isn't signed...but then again you could focus on the fact that Blake Austin IS signed, that Harry Seijka IS signed etc, that they are focusing on junior retention much more than the previous regime.

And as for the roster...when fully fit...How far away are we actually?

1. Lachlan Coote
2.
3. Michael Jennings
4. Michael Gordon
5.
6. Blake Austin
7.
8. Sam McKendry
9. Kevin Kingston
10. Tim Grant
11. Lewis Brown
12.
13. Luke Lewis

RES:
14. Dayne Weston
15.
16.
17. Vaipuna Tia-Kilifi

For the 2 vacant winger positions - Josh Mansour, Etu Uaisele, Junior Tia Kilifi, George Jennings, Tony Satini, Andrew Pelasio, Brad Tighe, David Simmons...other options?

For the 3 vacant forward positions - Nathan Smith, Nigel Plum, Chris Armit, Cameron Ciraldo, Clint Newton, Danny Galea, Ryan Simpkins, Mitch Achurch, Matt Robinson, Jesse Sene-Lafao etc

See...not that far away...maybe a few juniors away...maybe a few FG signings away...maybe a few young blokes from other clubs looking for opportunities away, maybe we have the solution already....but we aren't that far away.

What people need perspective on is the whole picture.

While the NRL team has shown itself to be somewhat lacking right now given injuries, inconsistency and lack of continuity...If we take the NRL results away...would you say our club is going better or worse?

The results show they are going better.

Off the field the players are integrating more in the community and re-connecting the team to the community. The players are active in Social Media and proving that we can be a family club as well as young and innovative.

Off the field we have new major sponsorship which is generating better income than the previous long term Sanyo partnership.

Off the field, we have increased membership at a greater rate than most of the bigger clubs in the NRL.

On the field all grades (bar NRL) have improved dramatically with the moves made in the past 12 months & the talent that has been nurtured.

On the field in the NRL...yeah not great...but when we were healthy early in the year we saw what this team was capable of. Now throw in Lewis Brown and a few talented juniors...

Sometimes focusing on one thing...blinds you to bigger picture. While the NRL is the same as last year due to various factors, we have improved in nearly every other area significantly both on and off the field.

We aren't that far away...you just have to have a bit of perspective, patience and faith.

It'll turn around for the NRL side...get on board.
 
Last edited:

Bob

Juniors
Messages
1,458
I know a bunch of you are pissed off about how the team is going. But the fact of the matter is we haven't had the same 17 run out consistently each week at all this year. If there was it would have been a significantly weakened squad.

Factors of a weaker roster & injuries have clearly impacted us and without any continuity no team is going to succeed. There is a reason that 9/10 times the team that wins the comp is the team has the least amount of injuries during a season.

Let us focus on what has been good so far in 2012:
- Our juniors are going really well in the Harold Matthews & SG Ball. Both squads did well this year and there looks to be a few genuine shots at first grade there.

- Our Toyota Cup squad has been competitive & winning for the first team since the initial year of the competition's formation. We have about 4-5 guys from that squad at least capable of transitioning to first grade.

- Our NSW Cup team is staked and is playing extremely well right now and we are building better depth for the team going forward.

- We have unearthed a few potential first graders who have had limited time in grade that were unheralded signings looking for opportunity (Matt Robinson, Ryan Simpkins, Josh Mansour, Etu Uaisele, Mitch Achurch)

- We have been active in the market already for next season signing a genuine current International backrower in Lewis Brown. When was the last time this happened at Penrith??

Those are just a few of the things.

Sure we can focus on the negative all you want. That Galea, Newton & Ciraldo look like ordinary signings..but realistically they'd be depth if we were full strength.

You can focus on the fact that they have re-signed Tighe & Walsh and yeah that might be a mistake in the long run...but for what they are on...meh.

You can focus on the fact that Mick Gordon isn't signed...but then again you could focus on the fact that Blake Austin IS signed, that Harry Seijka IS signed etc, that they are focusing on junior retention much more than the previous regime.

And as for the roster...when fully fit...How far away are we actually?

1.
2.
3.
4.
5.
6.
7.
8.
9.
10.
11.
12.
13.
RES:
14.
15.
16.
17.

See...not that far away...maybe a few juniors away...maybe a few FG signings away...maybe a few young blokes from other clubs looking for opportunities away.

What people need perspective on is the whole picture.

While the NRL team has shown itself to be somewhat lacking right now given injuries, inconsistency and lack of continuity...If we take the NRL results away...would you say our club is going better or worse?

The results show they are going better.

Off the field the players are integrating more in the community and re-connecting the team to the community. The players are active in Social Media and proving that we can be a family club as well as young and innovative.

Off the field we have new major sponsorship which is generating better income than the previous long term Sanyo partnership.

Off the field, we have increased membership at a greater rate than most of the bigger clubs in the NRL.

On the field all grades (bar NRL) have improved dramatically with the moves made in the past 12 months & the talent that has been nurtured.

On the field in the NRL...yeah not great...but when we were healthy early in the year we saw what this team was capable of. Now throw in Lewis Brown and a few talented juniors...

We aren't that far away...you just have to have a bit of perspective, patience and faith.

It'll turn around for the NRL side...get on board.

I'm on board Mick, have been since 1967 and let me tell you some of the shyte I have seen at Penrith Park is a lot worse then we are seeing now

The only signings I would like to see is a couple of centres as I feel we are light on there, a prop that will have a real good dig (Not convinced on McKendry as a starter yet) and a wide running back rower
 

YoungPanther

Juniors
Messages
311
I have been reluctant to get involved in recent discussions because I have always felt that kicking when down doesn't serve any great purpose.

I think the greater frustration is bourne from the past few weeks, in that we don't see the side getting any better and we are now all aware that it will be extremely difficult to salvage anything from the season.

If we had players coming back from injury soon, we could cope better, but we don't. Everyone has come to the realisation that we don't have the players to fill the deficiencies. We all know where they are.

I can understand why supporters are anxious. We should never settle for 2nd best. This doesn't mean we have lost our passion or commitment to the Club.

I think we all acknowledge that a lot of good has been undertaken, we just can't see any of the benefit where it really matters, in the 1st Grade side yet.

I believe we all had extreme optimism in the changes from last year and that is why it feels so deflating. Everyone is entitled to their opinions, doesn't mean they don't have the same support as any other fan.
 

Big Mick

Referee
Messages
26,318
100% YoungPanther. Not suggesting otherwise.

But it isn't as horrible as some would make it seem.

There are a hell of a lot of good things happening.
 

franklin2323

Immortal
Messages
33,546
I have been to every game except Newcastle & only will miss the Melbourne game. I am not going anywhere. I don't think we have been terrible at all. The only problem I have is playing injured players. Jennings should not of played on the weekend. Walsh was in doubt from the Sharks game. He should of rested & came back 100%.

Other then Souths every other game we have been in. For whatever reason. Lost. I think we can win 4 or 5 straight. Sadly I think the season will be gone by then.
 

Panther_Daz

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
7,901
I will be there win,lose or draw. The problem isn't people like me though.

During this re-building period our Membership,Merchandise,Game Day attendance and Food and Beverage sales are going to plummet. How we cope with this is the biggest test.
 

murraymob

Coach
Messages
10,338
the real big problem are the kids.Each a group of kids picks there team.A weak penrith has them picking other teams.Its why penrith struggle to attrack new supporters we rarly have good years
 

mxlegend99

Referee
Messages
23,334
I'd say all the Panthers supporters who managed to make it through the Matt Elliott era without giving up hope of a brighter future at some point are going to stick by the team for life. As much as some of the shit going on at the moment sucks, we had a far better roster when Matt Elliott was here and a lot of those days were far darker then what we're currently experiencing.

I expected that 2012 would be a disappointing season, but was hopeful 2013 would be a huge season for us. I'm not as confident in that now with how our recruitment and retention has gone so far for 2013 (Lewis Brown was a great signing, Tighe and Walsh were awful re-signings). But at the same time if we're lucky with injuries next season we don't really need to strengthen many positions.

At the moment I just hope that we can re-sign Flash to finish his career at the Panthers and sign up another quality second rower (ontop of Lewis Brown) and a quality centre/winger. Meanwhile we just work to develop the likes of Vaipuna Tia Kilifi, George Jennings, Harry Siejka etc. to be ready for making an impact early in the 2013 season. If we can see that sort of work toward next season being made now, then IMO this season will have been worthwhile and we could atleast look back and see that this season was crucial to building a strong future.
 

Doomednow

Bench
Messages
3,133
Thanks for the perspective, Mick. The future is indeed bright. I'm used to gritting my teeth and trudging through the shit by now so this is just another year of bearing it. The difference is that now I can see the end of it. Looking forward to good times.
 

maple_69

Bench
Messages
4,596
It does seem most fans are taking the situation pretty well.
Penrith have a lot of re-building years. I guess a rebuilding year is fine, necessary every now and then (unless you're Melbourne or Brisbane). It just becomes frustrating when a rebuilding year comes to nothing because of poor planning, lack of commitment and generally patching over problems rather than fixing them.

Someone said in another thread, Gus and Cleary have the task of ripping down the whole poison structure so that we can enjoy sustained success for the next decade. I think we've got the right men for the job and we've seen some positive signs that the process is underway.

I hope that Gus, Ivan and other key members of Penrith's non playing and playing staff have the same heart as the fans to see this period through. Then we may be able to look forward to something we have never really experienced. Sustained success.
 

Big Mick

Referee
Messages
26,318
If we can see that sort of work toward next season being made now, then IMO this season will have been worthwhile and we could atleast look back and see that this season was crucial to building a strong future.

I think that we are going to see that.

Gus already said that he expects Vaipuna to have a run in NSW Cup for a month before giving him a couple of bench spots at the end of the year.

We've seen it already so far with Achurch, Simpkins, Robinson etc.

So I think we can see that it is happening. Just building.
 

betcats

Referee
Messages
23,956
I'd say all the Panthers supporters who managed to make it through the Matt Elliott era without giving up hope of a brighter future at some point are going to stick by the team for life. As much as some of the shit going on at the moment sucks, we had a far better roster when Matt Elliott was here and a lot of those days were far darker then what we're currently experiencing.

I expected that 2012 would be a disappointing season, but was hopeful 2013 would be a huge season for us. I'm not as confident in that now with how our recruitment and retention has gone so far for 2013 (Lewis Brown was a great signing, Tighe and Walsh were awful re-signings). But at the same time if we're lucky with injuries next season we don't really need to strengthen many positions.

At the moment I just hope that we can re-sign Flash to finish his career at the Panthers and sign up another quality second rower (ontop of Lewis Brown) and a quality centre/winger. Meanwhile we just work to develop the likes of Vaipuna Tia Kilifi, George Jennings, Harry Siejka etc. to be ready for making an impact early in the 2013 season. If we can see that sort of work toward next season being made now, then IMO this season will have been worthwhile and we could atleast look back and see that this season was crucial to building a strong future.

I agree with a lot of this but can you really see us signing another quality backrower and a back as well as keeping Mick? Not gonna happen imo, even if we have the cap space I cant see it happening, maybe one more good singing, maybe. The rest of the spots will have to be filled from Windsor and NYC.
 

Big Mick

Referee
Messages
26,318
And who is to say we don't have the quality backrower and back at NYC.

If Tony Satini, George Jennings etc step up...that fills that need.

If Ian Riccardi, Vaipuna Tia-Kilifi step up next year with Bryce Cartwright 1-2 years after...that fills that need.
 

Bob

Juniors
Messages
1,458
And who is to say we don't have the quality backrower and back at NYC.

If Tony Satini, George Jennings etc step up...that fills that need.

If Ian Riccardi, Vaipuna Tia-Kilifi step up next year with Bryce Cartwright 1-2 years after...that fills that need.

The few I think would make great backrowers in our 20's are

1.Regan CAMPBELL-GILLARD
2.Ian Riccardi
3.Simon Gregory
4.Vaipuna Tia Kilifi

I know Cambell Gillard is playing front row at the moment but I would like to see him running a little bit wider, he seems to have a bit of pace
Riccardi I am very impressed with, as I am with Simon Gregory
 

Big Mick

Referee
Messages
26,318
I had huge raps on Ian Riccardi as Aussie Schoolboy when we brought him in.

Must have had injuries or something prior to this year but this year he is playing very well.

But that's what I am talking about.

Who is to say we don't have the solution for our issues already?

3 forward spots could easily be filled by Jesse Sene-Lafao, Mitch Achurch and Ian Riccardi.
 

betcats

Referee
Messages
23,956
We are a club that struggles to attract talent so we have to develop it, obviously the decision to cut the funding to the juniors f**ked this up so we werent really developing our talent and we for sure were not siging any, No wonder we are struggling right now.

Gus said his main focus would be the juniors, him and Cleary come on, make some changes and lo and behold, our Juniors are all having great seasons. THIS IS MASSIVE imo. Now I know we dont want to just write this season off but lets be realistic(as Mick said) we had to be very very lucky with injuries this year to even be a chance of making the 8. While the onfield performances are dissapointing, i dont for one second think Cleary and Gus are resting on there heels waiting for 2015 to roll around, they are actively trying to improve the team.



A
 

Kilkenny

Coach
Messages
13,878
Not only do we drop Michael Jennings, but we apparently drop our heir apparent half back in Harry Siejka to Emu Plains. One minute we are all calling for young Harry to be elevated to NRL to replace Walsh and the next minute he is not even in sufficient form to be playing NYC. We are certainly in crisis.
 

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