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Loaning System, could it work?

cb4

First Grade
Messages
9,587
I was sitting with a bunch of NRL buffs recently and they were on the topic of the draft system.
The ESL took on this system a few years back and it has had nothing but good responses from clubs and coaches.

So my question is, could it work in the NRL and more importantly, do you think it would benefit Cronulla?

I have to admit, I am a big believer in getting this into the NRL, and I think we would be one of the clubs that would come of a huge benefit from it.

This season, paired with the Storm we had to watch some backs who would walk into our first team play NSW Cup.
No doubt we could have used O'Neill and maybe Hampton.

The Bronco's have a list of players we could have picked off as well on loan.

At the moment in the ESL, there is no option to sign the player at the end of the season, unless that is agreed to by both clubs.
But it at least gets you on the front foot with the player.

The only catch is, once on loan, you can't play them in your reserves, so they either play first grade or not at all.
Just one of the things that needs fine tuning with the system over there.

Anyway's, with talk of an NRL draft, I thought I would through some soon to be off season discussion in here.

Thoughts?
 

webShark

Guest
Messages
4,295
I was sitting with a bunch of NRL buffs recently and they were on the topic of the draft system.
The ESL took on this system a few years back and it has had nothing but good responses from clubs and coaches.

So my question is, could it work in the NRL and more importantly, do you think it would benefit Cronulla?

I have to admit, I am a big believer in getting this into the NRL, and I think we would be one of the clubs that would come of a huge benefit from it.

This season, paired with the Storm we had to watch some backs who would walk into our first team play NSW Cup.
No doubt we could have used O'Neill and maybe Hampton.

The Bronco's have a list of players we could have picked off as well on loan.

At the moment in the ESL, there is no option to sign the player at the end of the season, unless that is agreed to by both clubs.
But it at least gets you on the front foot with the player.

The only catch is, once on loan, you can't play them in your reserves, so they either play first grade or not at all.
Just one of the things that needs fine tuning with the system over there.

Anyway's, with talk of an NRL draft, I thought I would through some soon to be off season discussion in here.

Thoughts?

Used extensively in European soccer. I think it would work and would like to see it introduced. Like the draft idea too. Anything to change the status quo of us not being truly competitive.
 

ghoti

Bench
Messages
3,529
With the number of commentators who bemoan the lack of talent to fill the competition it makes perfect sebse to loan reserves. How Kevin Locke played most of this yesr is reserves is a good example. Clubs are too selfish with their stockpiling...
 

Qld-Sharkie

Juniors
Messages
1,641
Good points & bad. Ive delved into English soccer & its loaning system. Its great to get experience for young guys who cant quiet crack first grade. But that young guy gets loaned out to another club who doesnt give two sh!ts about his long term future, only his immediate need to fill a spot & that young guy may get used as a battering ram or a speed hump & end up ruined.
Loaning would be great for clubs like us....the holes we could have filled his year...sigh.
 

Card Shark

Immortal
Messages
32,237
Don't like it.

(Even) Less passion in the club you are playing for.

I know the game is a business but I would like to maintain some loyalty to the jumper in it.
 

CEO

Juniors
Messages
128
I have placed some thought into this and believe we need a type of draft to suit the NRL structure. I actually sent a similar proposal to David Gallop a few years back. I did get a response. More of a thanks for your input we will consider it.

The National Draft system for the NRL is conducted a week after the NRL grand final. It is based on a Dutch Auction where the initial asking price is high and is continually reduced until a buyer is found. Each club in reverse finishing order are able to purchase the player at the nominated price before dropping in value to the next increment.

The draft is completed in four stages and takes into consideration the different Tiers of the club. These include:

Stage 1 - Tier 1 is for the top 25 players (October)
Stage 2 - Tier 2 is for the National Youth Championship (NYC). (October)
Stage 3 – Players not selected in Stage 1 or 2 (January)
Stage 4 – Free Agents – Players not selected in Stage 3 (January)

General Rules

Players in the last year of the contracts who wish to change clubs must register for the national draft prior to the 31st August of each year.

After close of registration all players listed for the national draft go into a ballot to determine the order in which they will be auctioned.

Players are auctioned in bundles of five players. This is to ensure that as key players are lost the club can alter its priorities and possibly increase the ante for players of choice.

The auction will commence at a nominal figure for Stage 1 and 3 (Eg $1M) and Stage 2 (Eg $100K) with the club in reverse finishing order (NRL) given first option to purchase the player at the current price.

Teams in breech of the salary cap can be moved in the queue depending on the extent of the breech. Assuming that the Melbourne Storms breech of the salary cap placed them last in the bidding order it would be Cronulla Sharks first followed by Canberra Raiders etc.

Stage 1 – Top 25 Players

Players and their agents publish sign-on criteria that must be met by the successful bidder. These include things such as length of the contract, conditions of contract, reserve price and other items to be included (eg car) or excluded (Eg Tertiary Education Fees) from the salary cap. Clubs will be provided with all this information with the exception of reserve price.

Players and their agents must not list items that are mutually exclusive to one or two clubs, exclude third-party agreements and benefits contrary to the salary cap rules. Players and their agents found to have listed items or conditions (Eg Must be Queensland Team) breached the auction rules will be excluded from Stages 1 and 2 and will enter Stage 3 after conditions in breach are removed.

The auction starts in reverse finishing order with a nominal asking price of $1.2 million and reduces in the following increments.
- $1,200,000 to $500,000 at $50,000 increments
- $500,000 to $200,000 in $10,000 increments
- $200,000 to minimum wage in $5,000 increments

The winning bid is contract price only and does not include other benefits payable and reported in the salary cap.

Clubs have a maximum time limit (say 2min) to accept or reject the current offer before it expires and moves to the club ranked next in the queue. Variations to this may include:
- Clubs not represented for the auction will automatically forfeit the option to purchase the player.
- If clubs are not interested in a player or a price they may enter the auction at a nominated level.

If the players reserve priced (or increment above) is reached and they remain unsigned at the conclusion of the round. They will be passed in at auction and can be included in future drafts in Stages 2 (if eligible) and Stage 3. It is important for the players and their agents not to overvalue themselves. Failure to secure a contract in Stage 1 and 2 could delay preseason training with a future club until the middle of January.

After all registered players have been auctioned Stage 1 concludes and Stage 2 commences immediately.

Stage 2 - NYC

The Stage 2 process follows the same principles adopted in Stage 1 and is only open to players eligible for the NYC.

The auction starts in reverse finishing order (NRL) with a nominal asking price of $100,000 and reduces in the following rates.
- $100,000 to minimum wage in $5,000 increments

After all registered players have been auctioned and accepted or passed in Stage 2 concludes.


Stage 3 – Preseason Draft

In early preseason (January) the third and final stage of the draft system commences. This is applicable to any player not selected during Stages 1 and 2. Plus any additional players wishing to nominate for the draft.

This draft is conducted in the same manner as Stage 1 with the remaining registered players auctioned in the original Stage 1 balloted order. Any players registering after 31st August each year will be placed on the end of the queue in a first-come, first served basis.

Players and their agents are able to readjust the sign-on criteria to ensure they are more acceptable to proposed clubs.

The other main difference between Stage 1 and Stage 3 is the reserve price. For Stage 3 the reserve price is reduced to the minimum wage.

(NB - Reducing the price to the minimum wage in Stage 3 means that players cannot price themselves out of the market and become a free agent in Stage 4.)

Stage 4 – Free Agent

Only players who have gone through Stages 1, 2 and / or 3 can be consider Free Agents and are able to speak to any club to secure a playing contract.

Transfers

Players with contracts in excess of 12 months are unable to be transferred between rival clubs on mutual agreement. This could include the payout for the player’s contract, transfer players or compensation as some examples.

Failure to reach agreement before the 12 months: deadline will result in the player having to enter the national draft unless they are cut by their club and full payment is made for the player. This player will then become a free agent leading into the national draft

Other

The draft is not applicable to external codes including AFL and rugby union.

This system although not perfect provides numerous benefits to administrators, clubs, players and fans. Some of which include:

- Administrators can easily audit original contracts
- Clubs can access every player in the draft at the right price.
- Clubs are not disrupted by mid season contract speculation
- Players can be paid over or at market price
- Players can request longer deals with clubs
- Players futures secured before preseason training begins
- Players can access approved Third Party Deals once at the club
- Fans will enjoy more club loyalty from players
 

madunit

Super Moderator
Staff member
Messages
62,364
I hate the concept of a draft.

Forcing players to go to a team they may not want to be at.
 

cb4

First Grade
Messages
9,587
I hate the concept of a draft.

Forcing players to go to a team they may not want to be at.

Agreed, I don't like a draft.

At the end of their contract they will just go to the club of their choice.

But I think a loan system has a lot of merrit to it. Could have even helped the Tigers retain Koroibete this year.
Loan him to us until Pat Richards retires. Food for thought.

I personally see more positives than negatives to a loaning system.
 

Foz

Bench
Messages
4,124
No wouldn't work with the way the salary caps structured.Therell be the odd exception but most clubs would use the lot of the salary cap up and have nobody over to loan out anyway.
If you can loan a player out your not using the salary cap properly .If it's a young kid who may benefit from a run in firsts with another side I'd say yes but it would be very rare for the parent club to let another club get a hold of one of their star juniors.

CB I'm dirty on Liverpool paying 10 million pounds and then loaning the player back to the parent club.
Imagine how you'd feel if we lent a player to the Dragons and he helped them.
 
Last edited:

Foz

Bench
Messages
4,124
I have placed some thought into this and believe we need a type of draft to suit the NRL structure. I actually sent a similar proposal to David Gallop a few years back. I did get a response. More of a thanks for your input we will consider it.

The National Draft system for the NRL is conducted a week after the NRL grand final. It is based on a Dutch Auction where the initial asking price is high and is continually reduced until a buyer is found. Each club in reverse finishing order are able to purchase the player at the nominated price before dropping in value to the next increment.

The draft is completed in four stages and takes into consideration the different Tiers of the club. These include:

Stage 1 - Tier 1 is for the top 25 players (October)
Stage 2 - Tier 2 is for the National Youth Championship (NYC). (October)
Stage 3 ? Players not selected in Stage 1 or 2 (January)
Stage 4 ? Free Agents ? Players not selected in Stage 3 (January)

General Rules

Players in the last year of the contracts who wish to change clubs must register for the national draft prior to the 31st August of each year.

After close of registration all players listed for the national draft go into a ballot to determine the order in which they will be auctioned.

Players are auctioned in bundles of five players. This is to ensure that as key players are lost the club can alter its priorities and possibly increase the ante for players of choice.

The auction will commence at a nominal figure for Stage 1 and 3 (Eg $1M) and Stage 2 (Eg $100K) with the club in reverse finishing order (NRL) given first option to purchase the player at the current price.

Teams in breech of the salary cap can be moved in the queue depending on the extent of the breech. Assuming that the Melbourne Storms breech of the salary cap placed them last in the bidding order it would be Cronulla Sharks first followed by Canberra Raiders etc.

Stage 1 ? Top 25 Players

Players and their agents publish sign-on criteria that must be met by the successful bidder. These include things such as length of the contract, conditions of contract, reserve price and other items to be included (eg car) or excluded (Eg Tertiary Education Fees) from the salary cap. Clubs will be provided with all this information with the exception of reserve price.

Players and their agents must not list items that are mutually exclusive to one or two clubs, exclude third-party agreements and benefits contrary to the salary cap rules. Players and their agents found to have listed items or conditions (Eg Must be Queensland Team) breached the auction rules will be excluded from Stages 1 and 2 and will enter Stage 3 after conditions in breach are removed.

The auction starts in reverse finishing order with a nominal asking price of $1.2 million and reduces in the following increments.
- $1,200,000 to $500,000 at $50,000 increments
- $500,000 to $200,000 in $10,000 increments
- $200,000 to minimum wage in $5,000 increments

The winning bid is contract price only and does not include other benefits payable and reported in the salary cap.

Clubs have a maximum time limit (say 2min) to accept or reject the current offer before it expires and moves to the club ranked next in the queue. Variations to this may include:
- Clubs not represented for the auction will automatically forfeit the option to purchase the player.
- If clubs are not interested in a player or a price they may enter the auction at a nominated level.

If the players reserve priced (or increment above) is reached and they remain unsigned at the conclusion of the round. They will be passed in at auction and can be included in future drafts in Stages 2 (if eligible) and Stage 3. It is important for the players and their agents not to overvalue themselves. Failure to secure a contract in Stage 1 and 2 could delay preseason training with a future club until the middle of January.

After all registered players have been auctioned Stage 1 concludes and Stage 2 commences immediately.

Stage 2 - NYC

The Stage 2 process follows the same principles adopted in Stage 1 and is only open to players eligible for the NYC.

The auction starts in reverse finishing order (NRL) with a nominal asking price of $100,000 and reduces in the following rates.
- $100,000 to minimum wage in $5,000 increments

After all registered players have been auctioned and accepted or passed in Stage 2 concludes.


Stage 3 ? Preseason Draft

In early preseason (January) the third and final stage of the draft system commences. This is applicable to any player not selected during Stages 1 and 2. Plus any additional players wishing to nominate for the draft.

This draft is conducted in the same manner as Stage 1 with the remaining registered players auctioned in the original Stage 1 balloted order. Any players registering after 31st August each year will be placed on the end of the queue in a first-come, first served basis.

Players and their agents are able to readjust the sign-on criteria to ensure they are more acceptable to proposed clubs.

The other main difference between Stage 1 and Stage 3 is the reserve price. For Stage 3 the reserve price is reduced to the minimum wage.

(NB - Reducing the price to the minimum wage in Stage 3 means that players cannot price themselves out of the market and become a free agent in Stage 4.)

Stage 4 ? Free Agent

Only players who have gone through Stages 1, 2 and / or 3 can be consider Free Agents and are able to speak to any club to secure a playing contract.

Transfers

Players with contracts in excess of 12 months are unable to be transferred between rival clubs on mutual agreement. This could include the payout for the player?s contract, transfer players or compensation as some examples.

Failure to reach agreement before the 12 months: deadline will result in the player having to enter the national draft unless they are cut by their club and full payment is made for the player. This player will then become a free agent leading into the national draft

Other

The draft is not applicable to external codes including AFL and rugby union.

This system although not perfect provides numerous benefits to administrators, clubs, players and fans. Some of which include:

- Administrators can easily audit original contracts
- Clubs can access every player in the draft at the right price.
- Clubs are not disrupted by mid season contract speculation
- Players can be paid over or at market price
- Players can request longer deals with clubs
- Players futures secured before preseason training begins
- Players can access approved Third Party Deals once at the club
- Fans will enjoy more club loyalty from players

There's some good points in this(thinks of tanking but the AFL deal with it every year).
The NRL have got to pay all the wages full stop or there's always going to be the question mark over who's getting what.Also they will need to monitor the transfers etc.Means them forking out money to do it so I'm not sure they'd do it.Salary cap auditors got nothing to do.Give him the job with added staff.
 

ghoti

Bench
Messages
3,529
Reading over that draft outline makes me sraunchly against the draft. Not good for player welfare, and treats them as objects rather than people. We're an empathic people in the league world, I think it'd be a disservice to take the choice out of the individual's hands.

Loan system is interesting though, but has similar issues.
 

bluey

Bench
Messages
2,858
So in Effect on week you could play against a player that is contracted to the club and the next week he could be in your team???
Or do you surrender them for the complete season???
 

Qld-Sharkie

Juniors
Messages
1,641
So in Effect on week you could play against a player that is contracted to the club and the next week he could be in your team???
Or do you surrender them for the complete season???

Depends on the loan offer. Stipulations can/could be applied that a loaned player cant play against his mother club. Again with the length it might be for a year, a month, depends on the agreement & the cost.
 

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