Lote Tuqiri calls for Wallabies-Kangaroos clash

[christopher]

League forwards have no specialised skills, all of them do the same thing. Catch, run, tackle and pass.

Union forwards have all the aboves skills plus rucking, mauling, scrummaging and their own specialised skill for their position.

To say that Union forwards have a limited skill set is a blatant falsehood.

Union forwards rarely display ball skills before the line.

They rarely jink, draw defneders and put an inside man away. They rarely off load the mid tackle.

Their passing skills are limited at best.

BRad Thorn during his second stint in rugby league played i think one or two state of origin games during his first year back in the mid 2000's

in his last two to three years he played zero rep football because he had such a limited skill set.

In rugby he walks into the best team in the world and has been touted as captaincy material.

 

[Butters]

Union forwards rarely display ball skills before the line.

They rarely jink, draw defneders and put an inside man away. They rarely off load the mid tackle.

HAHAHAHAHAHA try and actually watch a game of union before you start speaking sh*t.

Their passing skills are limited at best.

And all league forwards have the passing skills of a 5/8? :roll:

BRad Thorn during his second stint in rugby league played i think one or two state of origin games during his first year back in the mid 2000's

in his last two to three years he played zero rep football because he had such a limited skill set.

In rugby he walks into the best team in the world and has been touted as captaincy material.

Could that have anything to do with QLD having a wide range of backrowers to choose from compared to the All Blacks limited stock of 2nd rowers? Of course not :roll:

 

[christopher]

HAHAHAHAHAHA try and actually watch a game of union before you start speaking sh*t.



And all league forwards have the passing skills of a 5/8? :roll:



Could that have anything to do with QLD having a wide range of backrowers to choose from compared to the All Blacks limited stock of 2nd rowers? Of course not :roll:

If you call offloading mid tackle, being tackled and then passing the ball off the ground - then sure that does occur and sure thewre are skill full passes in union but they are rare. The allblacks contain 90 per cent of them.

I played union and have enjoyed watching union for the past ten years, not so much super12,13 or 14 but most tests involving either Aus or NZ plus a few Six Nations.

I am from New Zealand I can't not have a place for union.

But forward passing skills is not a reason I watch union.

The whole argument is ludicrous to be honest.

If you want to argue which is greater - ruck and maul, line out and scrum skills of union forwards verse wrestling, before the line passing and tackling skills of league forwards, well there is a good argument.

When Timana Tahu set up a try in his last game for the wallabies, against Italy with a beatuiful one handed off load mid tackle, Ben Tune enthused, there is his league skills coming to the fore. Yes I know Tahu is not a forward but union backs rarely off load either.

 

[Butters]

If you call offloading mid tackle, being tackled and then passing the ball off the ground - then sure that does occur and sure thewre are skill full passes in union but they are rare. The allblacks contain 90 per cent of them.

I played union and have enjoyed watching union for the past ten years, not so much super12,13 or 14 but most tests involving either Aus or NZ plus a few Six Nations.

I am from New Zealand I can't not have a place for union.

But forward passing skills is not a reason I watch union.

The whole argument is ludicrous to be honest.

If you want to argue which is greater - ruck and maul, line out and scrum skills of union forwards verse wrestling, before the line passing and tackling skills of league forwards, well there is a good argument.

When Timana Tahu set up a try in his last game for the wallabies, against Italy with a beatuiful one handed off load mid tackle, Ben Tune enthused, there is his league skills coming to the fore. Yes I know Tahu is not a forward but union backs rarely off load either.

Agreed

 

[Talanexor]

Let's not forget that League and Union are two completely different games. And the players require different skills.

I prefer to watch league because it is simple, fast, spontaneous and exciting - at least when the Cowboys play - whereas union is a far more technical and structured game. Union is a forward-dominated power game; league is a back dominated speed and skill game.

I do think that, in terms of overall athletic ability, leaguies are superior, but only because the game requires a much higher level of fitness.

If the Wallabies played the Kangaroo, one half union one half league, the leaguies would win. They wouldn't see much ball in the first half, but they wouldn't concede too many points either. In the second half, the Kangaroo backs would tear the Wallabies a new one.

Wallabies would score maybe 1 try and 3 or 4 penalty goals in the first half. Kangaroos would score 6+ tries in the second half, they'd just be scoring off the kickoff. Fat f*ckers like Dunning + 2 less defenders on the field = Wallaby defence is crap.

But again, the thing that really worries me is the excessive injuries to the Wallabies if they get monstered in the first half. Union forwards spend a lot of time training their joints and especially their necks. I think Cam Smith would end up with a broken spine after the first contested scrum.

 

[nqcowboy87]

But again, the thing that really worries me is the excessive injuries to the Wallabies if they get monstered in the first half. Union forwards spend a lot of time training their joints and especially their necks. I think Cam Smith would end up with a broken spine after the first contested scrum.

if they where playing 15 on 15 union rules cameron smith would not be chosen at hooker

 

[Tommax25]

I tend not to classify a League hooker as a forward as alot of them switch between hooker and halfback in their careers. To me a hooker is just a half that "packs" into the scrum.

Asides from the hooker what League forwards have specialised skills for their position? They all do the same thing, some just more than others.

Are you implying that hookers dont pack into the scrum? I love inappropriately used commas, especially when the commas are subbed for quotation marks.

 

[Talanexor]

if they where playing 15 on 15 union rules cameron smith would not be chosen at hooker

True. Maybe the Kangaroos would be better of just picking the 'fattest 15' for the first half.

Carl Webb - after eating half his wedding cake - would be an ideal prop. Maybe throw Myles or Shillington in there somewhere.

And Willie Mason at hooker....

 

[Butters]

Are you implying that hookers dont pack into the scrum? I love inappropriately used commas, especially when the commas are subbed for quotation marks.

No i'm implying that no one really packs into a league scrum, the front row just touch shoulders and dont even try to contest it.

 

[nqcowboy87]

I tend not to classify a League hooker as a forward as alot of them switch between hooker and halfback in their careers. To me a hooker is just a half that "packs" into the scrum.

exactly, preston campbell played hooker at the sharks for a bit and also for country, aliby off the bench

 

[Canard]

No i'm implying that no one really packs into a league scrum, the front row just touch shoulders and dont even try to contest it.

Another good Union myth, that they "contest" scrums.

All this means is they push hard, big deal. How often does the scrum win go against the feed? Basically never.

I cant see why Union fans are so proud of players that bust there arse and neck for the same result that Leagues scrums end up with.

 

[Te Kaha]

Another good Union myth, that they "contest" scrums.

All this means is they push hard, big deal. How often does the scrum win go against the feed? Basically never.

I cant see why Union fans are so proud of players that bust there arse and neck for the same result that Leagues scrums end up with.

That is rubbish... complete rubbish... The best scrums win the ball often, if its not a twin against a feed they can disrupt the scrum to such a degree that they get the feed to the scrum. its a myth to say they dont "contest" the scrums.

 

[Canard]

Often? At international level how often?

Maybe 1 in 20 or so?

 

[Thomas]

Its not just winning the scrum Canard...its pushing and contesting that the team with the feed gets crap ball and it puts them on the back foot.

You don't need to win the feed to contest the scrum.

 

[Everlovin' Antichrist]

You won't get a straight answer Canard because the answer is not something they want to admit.

 

[Thomas]

How often do teams win scrums against the feed? About twice a game or so.

How often do defending teams wheel a scrum (which gives them the feed)? A couple of times a game depending on the skills of the two forward packs.

How often do defending teams pressure the attacking scrum so that their ball quality is sh*te? Every chance they get.

As I've said...there's more to scrums than winning the feed. Winning against the feed is a bonus...putting pressure on them is the most important thing.

 

[Everlovin' Antichrist]

So, in reality, and feel free to post the figures to correct me, the team feeding the scrum probably wins about 90-95% of the scrums in Super14.

It's about 99% in the NRL....

Makes having all those fat bastards worthwhile...

 

[Te Kaha]

Often? At international level how often?

Maybe 1 in 20 or so?

Wheeling the scrum to get the feed or disrupting it enough to cause an error.. both are wins against the original feed as much as a tight head is... so you are looking at a half a dozen times a game or so that the feed goes against the original infringement... and that doesn't include moving the scrum to such a degree that it blocks a blindside move.

 

[Thomas]

So, in reality, and feel free to post the figures to correct me, the team feeding the scrum probably wins about 90-95% of the scrums in Super14.

It's about 99% in the NRL....

Makes having all those fat bastards worthwhile...

Well yes but either you've skimmed over it or neglected it...its not all about winning the ball.

Its about disrupting the service of the ball to the other team.

 

[Everlovin' Antichrist]

Well yes but either you've skimmed over it or neglected it...its not all about winning the ball.

Its about disrupting the service of the ball to the other team.

Yes, and disrupting the game, grinding it to a halt, having numerous re-sets at the hands of pedantic referees.

The reasons Rugby League punted contested scrums. There are a few people here who call regularly for contested scrums to be brought back in Rugby League. I've even seen people who went through the 1980's, when scrums were an abortion, call for them to come back. Bizarre, they almost f**ked our game to be honest. The frustration level at the time was huge.

I don't have a problem with Rugby League getting rid of them and eventually Union will get rid of them too. They're too scared to at the moment simply because it's a move to ape Rugby League....