Lou Dibella Letter to Mundine

[mud n blood]

Ozbash .... trust me. I'd know exactly which pencil to use. It's more a case of would I lose my lead before I finished writing the story !!!!

El Duque .... we finally agree on something ! (re: Tyson's rape charge)

 

[imported_T.B]

Ozbash wrote<span>&lt;?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-comoffice" />&lt;o>&lt;/o></span> <span></span><span>t b, maybe its more like human nature than repression of speech.&lt;o>&lt;/o></span> <span>everyone is free to say what they want,,as long as it doesnt infringe somebody elses rights.</span> Isn’t the whole basis of the civilisation, that we are so ready to fight for, the movement toward thought and morals over reaction and instinct. Sure, disagree with his views (to say that people can’t would be hypocritical). It may even promote knowledge and understanding if people were willing to discuss rather than react. But there is no case for abusing someone for their beliefs, or punishing them for their thoughts. To do so is no better then discrimination based on sex, race or religion. <span>mundine hurt a lot of americans,now he,s paying for it.&lt;o>&lt;/o></span> As much as it may frustrate some, Mundine has committed no crime by his actions and thus deserves to tangible punishment. &lt;o>&lt;/o><span>TB</span>

 

[imported_midas]

Willow
Anthony Mundine has a right to say whatever he likes within the confines of the Law.
This is a right enjoyed by us all and is what makes this Country so attractive to others.
The problem lies in the media blowing these things out of all proportion.Mundine was set up by an interviewer who knew that Mundine is (a) a big mouth (b)not too bright and (c) a Muslim and hoped to elicit a controversial response which would grab headlines and boost ratings-it worked.Would the same interviewer have asked the same question of Steve Waugh or Andrew Johns or George Gregan or Wayne Carey?-I think not.Mundine is a boxer-nothing more,nothing less and,unfortunately,not even bright enough to realise he was being set up.
As for his "apology"-I don,t know of anyone who regarded it as sincere.He claimed to have been taken out of context-on live TV.Give me a break.
None of this ,however,should affect his opportunities to ply his trade.It may cost him endorsements as not too many Companies take risks on loose cannons.
He will need to be well-advised in future as the media will now have him on top of the list of ding-a-lings to whom they can turn for a controversial comment on a quiet news day-move over Ms Hanson and Mr Ruxton.

 

[Willow]

midas:
If it hasn't already been said, welcome to the forum.

The Today Show which 'conducted' the interview has a tabloid approach to everything. What we had was a pop star interviewer asking a boxer about the war in Afgahnistan... I mean, if it wasn't so serious, it would be ajoke.
The next morning, the same interviewer, Richard Wilkins was interviewing Billy Connelly, the Scottish Comedian. Billy is known for his left wing views on a number of subjects but there was no way he was going to be asked to comment on the war in Afghanistan. This is because Billy Connelly is a smarter cookie than most and wouldn't fall into the same trap as Mundine did.
Unfortunate really, because Connelly is probably 10 time more articulate than Mundine and most likely would have given a thought provoking answer. Instead we ended up with some crappy controversy and a lot of angry people.
Having said that, you can hardly blame The Today Show - they are what they are and no one forced Mundine to answer the question.
Just a final note; you said:
"He will need to be well-advised in future as the media will now have him on top of the list of ding-a-lings to whom they can turn for a controversial comment on a quiet news day..."
An understatement as I think you will find that he has been the number one media lightning rod for some time now.

 

[Pancho]

Mundine offered appeals hearing
The World Boxing Council (WBC) will convene an appeals hearing in Australia if Anthony Mundine wants to have his world ranking reinstated.
But WBC president Jose Suilaman says Mundine would need to explain and apologise for claiming the US brought the September 11 attacks on itself.
Mr Suilaman says the WBC stripped Mundine of his ranking because his comments were embarrassing for the sport, but says Mundine is entitled to a hearing.
"If he happens to explain, to apologise, we have the will to offer him a hearing and definitely to hear him and we want to be fair," he said.
The WBC says Mundine is a partner of criminals for his claims.
But says there is always room for forgiveness.
"If he changes his mind, and if he apologises, and [is] sincere in the apology, well, people forgive," he said.

 

[imported_T.B]

This sentence at the end sickens me:
"If he changes his mind, and if he apologises, and [is] sincere in the apology, well, people forgive," he said. He is being offered the chance of trial where he is guilty unless he changes his mind. Shouldn't we have a trial to see if he is guilty first - or is it OK to assume? Is ransoming a persons career until they change their beliefs to suit the norm truly the acceptable practice in our supposedly free, civilised democracy? Would such a move been given so much support if it was anyone other than Mundine? I hope that these sort of quotes make people see where our society is treading with its treatment of the Mundine situation. TB

 

[imported_midas]

TB
Given the emotional state of Americans at the moment,I can well understand the the comments of Mr Sulaiman.Once a more rational climate exists (when?) I am sure he would realise that ordering someone to change their mind is against everything that Democracy stands for.
Also once the heat goes out of the Mundine thing,we will all probably realise that there is no Law against being a dickhead.If there was I think we would all probably serve time at one stage or another and certainly in illustrious company.Having said that ,I doubt if any of us would serve as much time as Mundine.

 

[imported_T.B]

Good point Midas,

but the other worrying thing is the way the Australian public is lapping it up, eg the polls running at ninemsn.

I really hope this is just an abberation in general behaviour resulting from the shock of Sep11.

On a side note unrealted to boxing, but relatedto this topic, I've been reading a fair bit by a writer Noam Chomsky lately. I think he puts up an excellent case and I encourage everyone to read his speech about the War on Terror http://www.zmag.org/GlobalWatch/chomskymit.htm

However, if anyone has other references on these sorts of topics, especailly if they argue the opposite point of view, I would be most interested in reading them. I'm trying to take my own adviceto keep my mind open.

I think this (long) quote summs up the Mundine situation perfectly

Suppose I'm talking about international terrorism, and I say that we ought to stop it in Washington, which is a major center of it. People back off, "What do you mean, Washington's a major center of it?" Then you have to explain. You have to give some background. That's exactly what Jeff Greenfield is talking about. You don't want people who have to give background, because that would allow critical thought. What you want is completely conformist ideas. You want just repetition of the propaganda line, the party line. For that you need "concision". I could do it too. I could say what I think in three sentences, too. But it would just sound as if it was off the wall, because there's no basis laid for it. If you come from the American Enterprise Institute and you say it in three sentences, yes, people hear it every day, so what's the big deal? Yeah, sure, Qaddafi's the biggest monster in the world, and the Russians are conquering theworld, and this and that, Noriega's the worst gangster since so-and-so. For that kind of thing you don't need any background. You just rehash the thoughts that everybody's always expressed and that you hear from Dan Rather and everyone else. That's a structural technique that's very valuable. In fact, if people like Ted Koppel were smarter, they would allow more dissidents on, because they would just make fools of themselves. Either you would sell out and repeat what everybody else is saying because it's the only way to sound sane, or else you would say what you think, in which case you'd sound like a madman, even if what you think is absolutely true and easily supportable. The reason is that the whole system so completely excludes it. It'll sound crazy, rightly, from their point of view. And since you have to have concision, as Jeff Greenfield says, you don't have time toexplain it. That's a marvelous structural technique of propaganda... Noam Chomsky

TB

 

[imported_The Albatross]

If you run around saying that your a better football player than the immortals, a better sportsman than Bradman and that everyone that doesn't support you is a bigot then a lot of people (me included) are going to be very pleased to see you stick your foot in your mouth as far as Mundine has on this occasion.

I wasn't sorry to see Mundine dumped by the WBC, but I think they did overstep a bit in stripping his world ranking. Even if they don't agree with Mundine, his right to express an opinion is one of the basic principles of the freedom they would seek to defend. I'm sure there are lots of other world ranked boxers who have offensive views on various subjects (tyson is a convicted rapist and has bitten off someone's ear for christ sake).

 

[El Duque]

Here's a good article on the hypocrisy of the WBC.

 

[Willow]

Excellent article El Duque.
I think it reaches the common ground on this issue that many of us are trying to find.

The most telling sections are:
"What makes the WBC's move totally ludicrous is the organization's reasoning, stating it did so "since such statements are unbelievable and intolerable and seriously hurt world society and boxing. THE WBC WILL NOT TOLERATE THE UTILIZATION OF A POSITION IN BOXING TO MAKE SUCH ABSURD AND DENIGRATING PUBLIC STATEMENTS." The all-caps was the WBC's touch, not mine. " And... "In regard to Mundine, the WBC is merely exploiting passionate public opinion for its own sensationalistic self-promotion. Sulaiman pulled a similar publicity stunt in 1994 when he presented one-time middleweight contender and convicted triple-murderer Rubin Carter with a championship belt upon the Hurricane's much-ballyhooed release from prison. Why? Because it was a great way for Sulaiman to piggyback a hot topic and jockey himself into the spotlight. " ...and finally... "No doubt, Mundine is a dunce. But the man has a right to speak his mind, however, addled it might be. " - the article by Tim Graham is well worth a read. As El Duque says... click Here

 

[CyberKev2002]

Personally, I think that boxing has so little credibility as a sport that it can almost make basketball seem a worthwhile exercise. With this in mind, the moronic and heavy handed approach employed by the WBC is anything but surprising.

What is more disappointing, is the rabid anti-Mundine push to paint him as some sort of satanic ogre putting forward radical ideas that amount to a fatwah on all things American. I'm no great wrap for the guy, but at least he will put forward an opinion on things which means that he can actually be interesting to listen to (unlike a fish-blanket type respondent like Wayne Bennett). In this instance, there's little doubt in my mind that his comments have been taken out of context due largely to his inability to clearly articulate exactly what he means. Essentially, he was reiterating what many people are thinking... America is always going to find itself at risk of these types of attacks for as long as it meddles in the affairs of other countries and plays sides off against one another to suit its own economic needs. Unfortunately, people blindly interpreted this as meaning that he thought that the American citizens deserved to die, which was nonsense. Sadly, Australians (and westerners in general) are all too quick to arrive at ill-conceived reactionary responses because the fast pace of contemporary living has made people lazy about the processes of critical thinking.

As for boxing... What else can you say about a sport in which any "contest" that lasts longer than thirty seconds is deemed an epic!!! Get rid of it!

Damn, guess I'm not going to be getting my shot at the title in New York anytime soon

CyberKev

 

[imported_Roopy4246]

Well said Kev.

Boxing has embraced the art of self promotion through outrageous hyperbole and mock controversy since even before the days of Ali etc. It's rank hypocracy for any boxing authority to declare that someone has crossed a boundary when the entire sport has been positively thriving on going 'too far' for the last three decades.

 

[Willow]

Couldn't agree more, Kev.
Roopy, I challenge the notion that Boxing has been thriving on hypocrisy for 30 years.... I would have thought it the time frame would be at least 3 times that.
Mundine is being punished for speaking his mind. However, the offficial stance from the WBC is that Mundine has abused his position and brought the name of boxing into disrepute.
Boxing is infamous for showing hypocricy. Pick any decade of the last 100 years and I'm sure we'll find several incidents where boxing has brought itself into disrepute.

 

[CyberKev2002]

Too right, Roopy!

Its stunning that people who have previously mocked Mundine for making comments that aren't worth taking seriously, are suddenly falling over themselves to highlight the "seriousness" of his comments...

At any rate, the comments of a boxer shouldn't shake the world to its foundations, as anyone who enters a profession that involves taking repeated punches to the head is not going to be a social commentator of immense intellectual rigour!

I thought that your views on boxing's willingness to let fighter's make complete gigs of themselves in the name of self promotion were very instructive here. Ali is considered a Saint these days, but I can remember the crap that he used to go on with in his halcyon days. I find the recent attempts by the boxing fraternity to put him forward as their contemporary social poster boy insulting in the extreme. He's indeed a tragic figure as he shuffles before the cameras and mumbles (barely intelligibly) to the microphones... If he's a poster boy for anything, then he should be a poster boy for calls to end this joke of a sport. Its become a breeding ground for lowlife sharks and shonky gambling types, it has little aesthetic charm, and spits men out as degraded wrecks at the end of their sorry careers.

Fair dinkum, boxing officials saying that Mundine has dragged the sport into disrepute is akin to the St Kilda football club board (with absurdly straight faces) claiming that ex-coach Malcolm Blight had dragged down their club's culture. Elton John's 1983 album would make an ideal soundtrack for Boxing and St Kilda both...

TOO LOW FOR ZERO

CyberKev

 

[ozbash]

kev, i beg to differ.
it wasnt the words of a boxer, it was the word of a sensation seeking, media playing,person who has blamed his lack of natural talent (on the footy feild) on racist selectors.
what the clown said would be the most imflamatory,self centered ,racist piece of verbal shit i have heard this year.
he said it to promote mundine
he said it to get the boxing (and league world) to sit up and take note
he has to pay for his stupidity.

if it was during the 2nd world war and he was praising up japan,,i know where the mongrel would be.......

 

[CyberKev2002]

Ozbash

Its hard to get away from the fact that what you say will immediately be linked back to the occupation you fill. I certainly think that Mundine has never been averse to talking things up and creating controversy, but things were a little different this time. He wasn't making a premeditated press statement, this was a case of Richard Wilkins asking a stupid question and Mundine answering it honestly (if not wisely).

Ostensibly, he could have -- of course -- made similar statements about America and its dodgy history at any other time and nobody would have batted an eyelid. Even many Americans themselves would admit that their leaders and military have done many shocking things in the past, which is essentially what Mundine was (clumsily) trying to intimate. Its just unfortunate that its difficult to look at world history and politics objectively at the moment, because the events of September 11 are still red raw on the general western psyche.

Overreaction is rife at the moment (understandably), but we must try to keep things in perspective. Mundine can be his own worst enemy at times, but compared to many of the thugs and louts that exist in boxing he's anything but dangerous. He became about the five quillionth person to come across poorly on camera, but I have little doubt that he didn't mean to cause overt distress and he apologised (well I thought, regardless of whether his camp assisted with the wording).

Lets get on with things...

CyberKev

 

[Willow]

Ozbash, I would have thought that he is being made to pay...

The head of the WBC in Australia was on the radio a few days back discussingthe reasons for punishing Mundine.
When asked if this was in violation of freedom of speech, the official also fell back on a WWII analogy. He said, "if you had a dinner happening at your house and one of the guests was a Nazi, you would allow him to exercise his freedom of speech.... but you would not allow him to stay for desert"
Now the official was asked for more clarity but he just repeated this rather odd analogy.

With respect,the connection between Mundine's comments and Nazis is at best, vague.
Having seen the original interview and the beat up that followed it, I can't help but feel that people have been overeacting.

 

This message has been deleted by the author.

 

[ozbash]

over reaction can be a fairly personal thing and quite hard to define in my humble opinion....

but kev is dead right,, lets get on with it......