Lower Leagues clubs

[ParraEelsNRL]

Hey guys, been wondering for a while which clubs historically and along with potential in the future could get big crowds if they made SL?

I know Widnes, Halifax and Whitehaven with a few seasons near the top could get a decent average, so which teams outside these has the potential to grow into a RL force again? (if any).

Cheers.

 

[Teddyboy]

Hey guys, been wondering for a while which clubs historically and along with potential in the future could get big crowds if they made SL?

I know Widnes, Halifax and Whitehaven with a few seasons near the top could get a decent average, so which teams outside these has the potential to grow into a RL force again? (if any).

Cheers.

Hopefully Widnes can with there nice new spanking stadium.
Halifax used to get 8000 in the 1990's (and my mate who runs the Touch Rugby) used to play for them in the 80's and 90's and won a Challenge Cup with them in front of 90000 back in the 80's....sorry for trying too look good lol.

There was talk in the past for Whitehaven and Workington to merge for SL status but I not too sure if it could happen but they are so close together I don't see why not as they would proper bring in better crowds then London and Wales SL teams.Whitehaven has had the odd crowd of 6000 for a big game in the past,while Workington used to get something like 3000-4000 before Super League came along.
The other Cumbrian club is Barrow who used to get good crowds back in the 1920's and 30's I think.

 

[langpark]

There aren't many, but i would say, possibly:

- York (though they may have too small of a population and too small a stadium)
- Sheffield, no such problem in the population. But the stadiums they have used are far too big, so i guess opposite problem to York.
- Leigh, kind of in the same basket as Halifax and Widnes, new stadium and all. But again, too small of a town i think.

Also, part of me wonders if Donacaster could have ever done anything if they didn't have all their financial/admin issues etc. Especially with that brand new stadium they got.

 

[Evil Homer]

There aren't many, but i would say, possibly:

- York (though they may have too small of a population and too small a stadium)
- Sheffield, no such problem in the population. But the stadiums they have used are far too big, so i guess opposite problem to York.
- Leigh, kind of in the same basket as Halifax and Widnes, new stadium and all. But again, too small of a town i think.

Also, part of me wonders if Donacaster could have ever done anything if they didn't have all their financial/admin issues etc. Especially with that brand new stadium they got.

Of those teams, only Sheffield ever have any realistic chance of getting into SL, and that is years if not decades down the track. RL has always been very much under the radar there for some reason. York I doubt could support a SL club really, the city is probably big enough but there's not really that much of a sporting culture there and it's only half a hour from Leeds. Leigh is pretty much a suburb of Wigan and should not be considered, they have found their level as a strong lower league club, same goes for York IMO. Doncaster is a joke club and for the people who mentioned the likes of Whitehaven and Workington, Cumbria will never be able to support top flight sport, again they are at best going to be good Championship clubs, at the moment both clubs are in Championship 1.

One thing to note is that the Championships are expanding in the next year or so, with possibly up to 7 or 8 new expansion teams. You would think that any challenge for Super League status in the future would realistically come from these clubs. The majority of the current clubs are based in very small towns and only 7 of the 20 British clubs are located more than 20 minutes drive away from a Super League team (three of those are in Cumbria). Therefore the chances of any of them ever pushing for Super League are pretty slim.

 

[roughyedspud]

historically you'd have to put oldham up there with the likes of widnes,leigh & halifax as being,or potentially being,the biggest clubs in the championship...

in terms of number of trophies won ie league,challenge cup,lancs & yorks leagues & cups etc oldham still rank 8th

and when we get someone in charge who knows what their doing theres no reason why we can't get back up there...not that i want us togo back into super league...i'd be happy if we won the championship every year tbh

 

[langpark]

Oldham did cross my mind for a second actually.

Of those teams, only Sheffield ever have any realistic chance of getting into SL, and that is years if not decades down the track. RL has always been very much under the radar there for some reason. York I doubt could support a SL club really, the city is probably big enough but there's not really that much of a sporting culture there and it's only half a hour from Leeds. Leigh is pretty much a suburb of Wigan and should not be considered, they have found their level as a strong lower league club, same goes for York IMO. Doncaster is a joke club and for the people who mentioned the likes of Whitehaven and Workington, Cumbria will never be able to support top flight sport, again they are at best going to be good Championship clubs, at the moment both clubs are in Championship 1.

I do agree with you, but I had to mention them since they're half a chance and since the Cumbria clubs had been mentioned too. I also remembered about 5 years ago York were getting some big crowds, (now when i say big i mean 2-3000) which isn't bad despite being in the lower leagues, and not too far off the likes of salford and harlequins.

I'd love to see Sheffield in Super League one day.

 

[Teddyboy]

York be a great place for away fans if they were in SL.

 

[roughyedspud]

been on a couple of stag do's to york...good night out

 

[Goldfields_Titans]

historically you'd have to put oldham up there with the likes of widnes,leigh & halifax as being,or potentially being,the biggest clubs in the championship...

in terms of number of trophies won ie league,challenge cup,lancs & yorks leagues & cups etc oldham still rank 8th

and when we get someone in charge who knows what their doing theres no reason why we can't get back up there...not that i want us togo back into super league...i'd be happy if we won the championship every year tbh

I'd love to see the Roughyeds back in SL but facilities and investors prevents that unless Oldham MBC pulled their finger out and sorted a decent stadium for both them and Latics.

 

[WireMan]

Oldham would be good but i can't see them ever coming back unfortunately. Still Roughy could win the Euro lottery!!

The cumbrian teams are to small. There is no population centre big enough imo. Workington and Whitehaven look close, but in the lakes it still takes ages to get anywhere. Plus they hate each other and wouldn't support the team (a theme when it comes to mergers).


I'd of thought either Leigh or Halifax would be the faves for promotion in a few years from the heartland areas. A French team will be around though, and i would think thats the RFL dream.

Maybe 2 added teams, one in France, one in London and a heartland team is replaced every so often if one is doing badly and if there is a replacement.

 

[nadera78]

Oldham would be good but i can't see them ever coming back unfortunately. Still Roughy could win the Euro lottery!!

The cumbrian teams are to small. There is no population centre big enough imo. Workington and Whitehaven look close, but in the lakes it still takes ages to get anywhere. Plus they hate each other and wouldn't support the team (a theme when it comes to mergers).


I'd of thought either Leigh or Halifax would be the faves for promotion in a few years from the heartland areas. A French team will be around though, and i would think thats the RFL dream.

Maybe 2 added teams, one in France, one in London and a heartland team is replaced every so often if one is doing badly and if there is a replacement.

Actually I think a new team in West Cumbria could be very successful. I'm not including Barrow in this, it's too far away. Worky and haven are both too small for SL, and they are both down to the hardcore support these days, but there are 175,000 people within 1/2hour of them and RL is very, very popular. These are the people a new team (not a merged one!) would be looking to bring back to the game, ones who have drifted away over the years but still have an interest in the game.

Even amongst the remaining hardcore at the two clubs there is a 50/50 split on any new team, so the opposition to it would be minimal these days, unlike when SL was first mooted. You could have town and haven playing in C1, while the new side plays in SL. You'd have to plan it all carefully, and get the community onside from the get-go, but it's certainly doable.

 

[Teddyboy]

Actually I think a new team in West Cumbria could be very successful. I'm not including Barrow in this, it's too far away. Worky and haven are both too small for SL, and they are both down to the hardcore support these days, but there are 175,000 people within 1/2hour of them and RL is very, very popular. These are the people a new team (not a merged one!) would be looking to bring back to the game, ones who have drifted away over the years but still have an interest in the game.

Even amongst the remaining hardcore at the two clubs there is a 50/50 split on any new team, so the opposition to it would be minimal these days, unlike when SL was first mooted. You could have town and haven playing in C1, while the new side plays in SL. You'd have to plan it all carefully, and get the community onside from the get-go, but it's certainly doable.

If done right as it could work as it's the kids of today who clubs like a merged Workinghaven team should target as they be the adults with the dosh to go out and support a local team in the top league.

 

[WireMan]

But where would they play?

Workington, Whitehaven or in the middle?

It would be brilliant for the sport to 'expand' into the lakes, but everything you said about them merging you could say for Warrington/Widnes, Hull/ Hull KR, Cas/Wakey etc.

Stick Cas, Wakey and Fev in a lower division. Then create a new super league team called the Calder Cats. Its a brand new team, the sport is huge. Why not?

Also i'm not knocking anyones argument. Its just the talk of mergers and new teams is always being said when it concerns other teams in other areas. The areas i mentioned have natural places to play, in small locations etc. and are very very unlikely.

So what chance finding the money to build a half way decent stadium, in an area half the target audience do not want to be associated with on the possibility of entering a team into super league. Wakey and cas cannot afford/get permission to build stadiums next to a motorway, in a densely populated part of the country. Where you will find enough open space in a national park is anyones guess.

Not saying i'm right, your wrong. I just do not see it ever happening. Better for current clubs to open or help fund academies up there to find the talent.

 

[Evil Homer]

Agree with Wireman on this one. Also, I'm not sure why there is such a need for Cumbria to have a Super League team? As mentioned, the game is already very popular there, and they continue to produce a large number of players, I doubt Super League would make that much of a difference TBH.

 

[nadera78]

It would have to be a new team, not a merged one because that would get people's backs up right away. I've never advocated mergers at all.

Back in the day, when there was only one team in the RL, people from all across that part of the county would travel to watch them. If they did it fifty years ago then there's no reason why they can't make the journey now.

For the game as a whole, a team playing in front of 10,000 people, in a hardcore RL area, would be a big boost. People are getting excited about Widnes coming back into SL (and I'm one of them) but this new club would be bigger than the Vikings. If you get it right from the start.

 

[bowes]

Workington have said they'd support a merger, if it were with SL ambitions, Whitehaven are against it

 

[ParraEelsNRL]

Pity, a team playing in the area sounds like a real goer besides the typical my team stuff and I can understand that completely, I'd hate to see Parra merge.

Oldham, haven't they played in about 5 stadiums in the last 15 years besides one in Oldham?

I've heard and read a bit about them, it seems such a pity that they can't get a decent ground to play at.

I know UK fans hate the thought of sharing a ground, but wouldn't it make sense for Oldham and a 1 other to use Salfords new ground seeing as they are all a part of Greater Manchester?

Why do you guys get so worked up over ground sharing?

Parra played at Belmore for a few years till Parra stadium was finished, both the tigpies and doggies played at Parra for a while.

Is it deep seated roots that causes this, or is it the fact you just love having a place to call your own?

 

[bowes]

Oldham's too far from Salford to make it practical or appealing to fans (distances in the UK are considered a lot further than the same distance in Australia would be as we're a much smaller country). Swinton's the only club close enough to Salford to possibly work

 

[Evil Homer]

Is it deep seated roots that causes this, or is it the fact you just love having a place to call your own?

Like Bowes says, people in the UK just don't like to travel. We've seen a big decrease in St Helens attendances this year due to playing at Widnes, and that's less far than it would be for Oldham to Salford. Also, I think there's a psychological difference between Parra playing at a different Sydney ground and a team playing in a completely different town. It would be more akin to if someone like Newcastle was based out of SFS (obviously the distances are off but you get my drift). If Oldham were based at Salford, they would end up being thought of as another Salford team and probably just disappear over time.

And despite what people have said, I don't think there's that much mileage in a Cumbria team. There are certainly more obstacles than just squabbles about mergers etc.

 

[langpark]

It would have to be a new team, not a merged one because that would get people's backs up right away. I've never advocated mergers at all.

Back in the day, when there was only one team in the RL, people from all across that part of the county would travel to watch them. If they did it fifty years ago then there's no reason why they can't make the journey now.

For the game as a whole, a team playing in front of 10,000 people, in a hardcore RL area, would be a big boost. People are getting excited about Widnes coming back into SL (and I'm one of them) but this new club would be bigger than the Vikings. If you get it right from the start.

I think you're a bit too stuck in the NRL mentality if you think 'creating' a team out of thin air like that would be a success. Barrow (1875), Whitehaven (1948) and Workington (1945) have all been around too long each with their own proud history, for some "artificial" franchise to just come along and take over.

So what we have right now are 3 average lower league teams, your idea would create 4 diluted teams AND 4 identity crisis(es). Some would stay true to their old teams, some would defect, equaling failure for all parties.

Country NSW and Qld are some of the most fanatical RL areas on earth, but all have small populations so will never have a team in the NRL. That's life, doesn't mean they lose interest in League.

Cumbria could have 3 successful NL1 teams, but i don't think they will ever have a strong SL team.