Mann

[dragonssamy61]

yes!! I concur!! I was so dissapointed in his year after seeing how he went on the gold coast! this is a coaching thing, Mary is lame, too matey, doesnt get up them enough obviously, even junior coaches do this

Exactly he wants to be everyone best mate.
Not a coach.
He has to be tougher.
But even if he was his lack of coaching ability would still come to the fore.

 

[dragonssamy61]

It's sad isn't it. Mary too focused on the forwards and burnt them out. No idea how to organise the backs.

Agree Drag
You would think he would know about back line play but sadly he has no idea

 

[Drag Queen]

Agree Drag
You would think he would know about back line play but sadly he has no idea

Nup.

 

[Drag Queen]

McDonald does not have the ticker for first grade. He just might have the speed but he does not run with venom, so he tries to compensate this with trying to offload all the time. He has to many handling errors in him which puts us under pressure. His defenceive problems are the coaches fault as it is his job to teach a player not to run in and leave his wing.

True, but he's still young. He's a huge unit with speed. All the makings of a young Jonah Lomu/Semi Radradra. So much potential and yet nobody to teach him. Mary has to go, even if he is a nice bloke.
Every other position has KPIs and so should this club.

 

[gitano]

Bs .
You have just confirmed you have nfi.
Keep digging that hole .

Says you. Based on what? That's right, nothing.

 

[gitano]

Exactly he wants to be everyone best mate.
Not a coach.
He has to be tougher.
But even if he was his lack of coaching ability would still come to the fore.

Based on what?
I'd like to hear about your experiences regarding Mary's coaching and how tough he is on the guys.

 

[Belta]

It's fair to say that Mann did not have his best game against the Doggies but has shown attacking flair previously from five eight. Does the fact that he didn't dominate mean we instantly banish him, knowing he has been stuffed around with positions all year, plus it's not like there is consistency around him ie different centre pairings, But the single biggest factor is that the halves seldom excel if the forwards fail to dominate, and I feel our forwards have dropped off in the end...I seldom crucify any player but I'd say Mcrone was given plenty of opportunities and under performed, Mann not so many....all in all its a team game, and I believe they were out enthused, strangely enough the dogies wanted it more..only my opinion of course

 

[Uplifting]

I believe Mann could be a good half - he did fantastic considering how little experience he's had there.

Regardless I can't wait till Hunt arrives. Hopefully he has some knowledge and expectations about how to run a backline.

 

[Mr Red]

Mann was an absolute liability in the Dogs game. Real shame, he's very inconsistent in the halves (Warriors and Titans game vs Dogs and other Titans game).

His kicking game is one dimensional ..basically put a bomb up and hope.
And his sideways running is becoming very annoying.. cramped the outside backs and caused the team to lose go forward....
The fact Mary chose to experiment with the most important position on the field coming into the run to the finals was disgraceful, mccrone wasn't the answer , but it was too late in the season to start expirmenting...he should have bought in someone about 10 weeks earlier..

 

[giboz71]

I believe Mann could be a good half - he did fantastic considering how little experience he's had there.

Regardless I can't wait till Hunt arrives. Hopefully he has some knowledge and expectations about how to run a backline.

We just need to find one position for him.

As much as people want to view him as a spine player, his best position really is centre or wing. His best games for us has been on the left wing and to be honest he'd be a much better option than Nighty. Scored a great try against the Cows with Lafai feeding him, and finished it off with a pretty impressive dive as well

But Mary won't drop Nighty so our left edge is destined to be as slow as it always has been.

 

[Redhoopz]

His kicking game is one dimensional ..basically put a bomb up and hope.
And his sideways running is becoming very annoying.. cramped the outside backs and caused the team to lose go forward....
The fact Mary chose to experiment with the most important position on the field coming into the run to the finals was disgraceful, mccrone wasn't the answer , but it was too late in the season to start expirmenting...he should have bought in someone about 10 weeks earlier..

To be fair, I believe the midfield bombs is something they've been told to do. Every kick inside our half was a midfield bomb, whether it be Mann, McCrone or Widdop, they all kicked that way. I don't understand how they think it's an effective kick. It's only a good kick if you can land it right before the try line. 99% of those kicks result in putting us on the back foot defensively straight away.

It would be tough to go back through season, to find many kicks that actually found good position from either half

 

[BennyV]

Based on what?
I'd like to hear about your experiences regarding Mary's coaching and how tough he is on the guys.

Well obviously no one on here has as much experience in this area as you do, Josh.

But surely even you can recognise that by gifting you the 7 jersey for most of the season, despite being in far over your head, he has shown that he's not tough enough of the players...

 

[giboz71]

His kicking game is one dimensional ..basically put a bomb up and hope.
And his sideways running is becoming very annoying.. cramped the outside backs and caused the team to lose go forward....
The fact Mary chose to experiment with the most important position on the field coming into the run to the finals was disgraceful, mccrone wasn't the answer , but it was too late in the season to start expirmenting...he should have bought in someone about 10 weeks earlier..

People say he played a lot of his junior footy in the halves, but that means jack shit in FG. He's obviously a pretty talented player that can fill in a number of positions, but FMD we really needed a proper 7 in a must win season defining game like last week.

I know what you mean about his sideways running and his hesitancy. Just added to what was already a spluttering attack. It was strange as in the Gold Coast game he was silky smooth and had a blinder. But it takes more than one game to be a proper 7.

I always questioned his decision making and ability to think on his feet. Was sadly missing on the weekend. Hence I've always said he's a centre or winger.

Let Hunt and Widdop direct the team and be done with it.

 

[emu62]

all this criticism of Mann & Widdop in the Grubs game is a bit harsh IMO. As Sterlo said many times"If your forwards aren't going forward then it doesnt matter how good your halves are" & unfortunately for whatever reason our forwards did not turn up as a unit

 

[getsmarty]

The best and worst defensive centres in the NRL
Author
Chris Kennedy & Dan Walsh & Joel Gould
Timestamp
Fri 19 Jan 2018, 01:00 PM

It is widely accepted that centre is the toughest place to defend on the field, so who were the best and worst defensive centres in the NRL in 2017 and how did they impact their team's fortunes?

We delved deep into NRL.com stats – looking only at players who played at least five games at centre in 2017 and only including regular-season (i.e. non-finals) matches – to look for the answer.

A tough job

While middle defenders are faced with the biggest defensive workloads and the biggest bodies to tackle, a centre faces the toughest decisions. When to slide, when to jam in, how to position themselves to shut down the play without leaving their winger isolated, when to drop back to try and have a chance at defending an attacking kick without leaving too big a gap in the line – these are all decisions centres regularly have to make in a fraction of a second.

They also need to tackle big, wide-running back-rowers as often as fleet-footed wingers and fullbacks who exhibit blinding speed and footwork.

For this analysis, instead of focusing on the regular defensive bread-and-butter stat of tackles made versus tackles missed, we have chosen to look at 'try causes'. This refers to the number of times a centre had a chance to stop a try and didn't.

This could be due to a variety of reasons including defensive misreads or missed tackles that lead to tries, getting outjumped to an attacking kick, or getting caught out of position.

It's not always just the centre's fault

It is important to note that not all try causes are equal. Sometimes a centre has dropped the ball cold on his own line allowing a free try to the opposition, or come rushing out of an otherwise set defensive line to leave a yawning gap for opponents to stroll through. Other times a centre earns a try cause for a play where there was a complete breakdown through the middle of the field and the poor old centre wasn't quite able to save his teammates' blushes. Either still goes down as a '1' in the try cause column.

It's also important to note that centres who play in defensively sound teams like Melbourne, Cronulla, Brisbane and the Roosters are likely to face fewer tough decisions and broken play runners than the centres in teams with leaky middle defence and who consequently may end up higher on the try-cause list than they otherwise would have.

So who is the best?

With all that said, here at the best five centres by try causes per game in 2017.

Given premiers Melbourne's near-impenetrable defence last season there's no surprise to see their two top-string centres at the top of this list. Chambers is a Kangaroos and Origin star and does a stellar job marshalling the Storm's right edge but the real story here is young Curtis Scott. The budding Blues back played 10 games at left centre despite a huge preference for his long-term junior position of right centre. While Cheyse Blair conceded 10 tries in 13 games (0.77 per game) before his injury, his young replacement actually did far better defending in the same system than his more experienced teammate.

"[Scott] was a right-side centre, but with Will here he had to become a left centre, and he did that really, really well," Storm football director Frank Ponissi told NRL.com.

"That might have been a little bit behind any frustrations he experienced [while pushing for a first-grade spot]; he had such a preference for right centre, he played all his junior footy there. But with Will here he had to change over and he's done it quite quickly.

"[His defensive record] doesn't surprise me at all; he works very hard at it."

Both Cowboys centres also recorded outstanding numbers with both Linnett and Justin O'Neill (seven try causes in 17 games at 0.41 per game) in the NRL's top seven defensive centres. In a struggling Bulldogs team, noted defender Josh Morris (12 in 24 games at 0.50 per game and a league-high four try saves) was a standout.

And who needs work?

Unsurprisingly, centres who played for clubs that conceded a lot of tries and finished outside the top eight are concentrated near the top of this list.

Alarmingly for Wests Tigers coach Ivan Cleary, three of the top five are Tigers players. With their increased depth in the outside backs in 2017, it may mean the end of back-rower Michael Chee-Kam's stint filling in in the centres.

While the numbers also don't look favourable for Titan Dale Copley, on viewing those 25 try causes it's fair to say there were a significant number of those in which he was far from the only culprit. Like Cleary, Titans coach Garth Brennan has a few headaches to deal with – Copley's centre partner Konrad Hurrell had 14 try causes in 16 games at 0.88 per game and new centre recruit Brenko Lee was responsible for 13 try causes in 18 games at Canterbury last season.

"It is no surprise that we were a poor defensive team; part of that is the edge decisions that my edge and both edges of our team were making," Copley told NRL.com.

"Some was about stuff happening inside of us where we were caught short, and some was our own fault.

"But we were down the bottom as a defensive side for a reason. There is no one player [at fault]. It is a team effort. But with a new coach, a new defensive system, new players in key positions and having a full pre-season with the guys we are going to play with I am sure it can be turned around.

"Defence has been a focus in the pre-season because left, right, middle and the guys coming off the bench … we weren't good enough last year. I am sure you could find many stats to back that up."

Among the others who need to brush up a little are Raider Joey Leilua (21 in 24 games at 0.88 per game) and Manly rookie Brian Kelly (20 in 22 at 0.91) who were actually second and third after Copley in terms of most total try causes for the season.

Full table in order of fewest try causes per game to most try causes:

Rank Name 2017 club Matches at centre Try causes Average try causes
1 Will Chambers Storm 20 2 0.10
2 Curtis Scott Storm 10 2 0.20
3 Mitch Aubusson Roosters 10 2 0.20
4 Kurt Mann Dragons 7 2 0.29
5 Kane Linnett Cowboys 23 9 0.39
6 Ryan Matterson Roosters 5 2 0.40
7 Justin O'Neill Cowboys 17 7 0.41
8 Brad Takairangi Eels 18 8 0.44
9 Esan Marsters Wests Tigers 11 5 0.45
10 Josh Morris Bulldogs 24 12 0.50
11 Jack Bird Sharks 16 8 0.50
12 Tim Lafai Bulldogs 24 13 0.54
13 Michael Jennings Eels 21 12 0.57
14 Ricky Leutele Sharks 24 14 0.58
15 Waqa Blake Panthers 20 12 0.60
16 Dylan Walker Sea Eagles 24 15 0.63
17 Jarrod Croker Raiders 22 14 0.64
18 Tautau Moga Broncos 24 16 0.67
19 Kurt Capewell Sharks 9 6 0.67
20 Chase Stanley Bulldogs 6 4 0.67
21 Hymel Hunt Rabbitohs 10 7 0.70
22 Brenko Lee Bulldogs 18 13 0.72
23 Joseph Manu Roosters 15 11 0.73
24 Peter Mata'utia Knights 23 17 0.74
25 Kirisome Auva'a Eels 8 6 0.75
26 Blake Ayshford Warriors 17 13 0.76
27 Cheyse Blair Storm 13 10 0.77
28 James Roberts Broncos 23 18 0.78
29 Tyrone Peachey Panthers 15 12 0.80
30 Roberts Jennings Rabbitohs 11 9 0.82
31 David Fusitua Warriors 12 10 0.83
32 Joey Leilua Raiders 24 21 0.88
33 Konrad Hurrell Titans 16 14 0.88
34 Bryson Goodwin Rabbitohs 8 7 0.88
35 Javid Bowen Cowboys 8 7 0.88
36 Solomone Kata Warriors 19 17 0.89
37 Brian Kelly Sea Eagles 22 20 0.91
38 Euan Aitken Dragons 12 11 0.92
39 Dane Gagai Knights 16 15 0.94
40 Latrell Mitchell Roosters 14 14 1.00
41 Kevin Naiqama Wests Tigers 13 13 1.00
42 Dean Whare Panthers 10 10 1.00
43 Tyrell Fuimaono Rabbitohs 7 7 1.00
44 Siosifa Talakai Rabbitohs 7 7 1.00
45 Joe Wardle Knights 6 6 1.00
46 Aaron Gray Rabbitohs 5 5 1.00
47 Young Tonumaipea Storm 5 5 1.00
48 Jarryd Hayne Titans 5 5 1.00
49 Michael Chee-Kam Wests Tigers 9 11 1.22
50 Moses Suli Wests Tigers 9 12 1.33
51 Dale Copley Titans 16 25 1.56


https://www.nrl.com/news/2018/01/19/the-best-and-worst-defensive-centres-in-the-nrl/

 

[Walpole]

The best and worst defensive centres in the NRL
Author
Chris Kennedy & Dan Walsh & Joel Gould
Timestamp
Fri 19 Jan 2018, 01:00 PM

It is widely accepted that centre is the toughest place to defend on the field, so who were the best and worst defensive centres in the NRL in 2017 and how did they impact their team's fortunes?

We delved deep into NRL.com stats – looking only at players who played at least five games at centre in 2017 and only including regular-season (i.e. non-finals) matches – to look for the answer.

A tough job

While middle defenders are faced with the biggest defensive workloads and the biggest bodies to tackle, a centre faces the toughest decisions. When to slide, when to jam in, how to position themselves to shut down the play without leaving their winger isolated, when to drop back to try and have a chance at defending an attacking kick without leaving too big a gap in the line – these are all decisions centres regularly have to make in a fraction of a second.

They also need to tackle big, wide-running back-rowers as often as fleet-footed wingers and fullbacks who exhibit blinding speed and footwork.

For this analysis, instead of focusing on the regular defensive bread-and-butter stat of tackles made versus tackles missed, we have chosen to look at 'try causes'. This refers to the number of times a centre had a chance to stop a try and didn't.

This could be due to a variety of reasons including defensive misreads or missed tackles that lead to tries, getting outjumped to an attacking kick, or getting caught out of position.

It's not always just the centre's fault

It is important to note that not all try causes are equal. Sometimes a centre has dropped the ball cold on his own line allowing a free try to the opposition, or come rushing out of an otherwise set defensive line to leave a yawning gap for opponents to stroll through. Other times a centre earns a try cause for a play where there was a complete breakdown through the middle of the field and the poor old centre wasn't quite able to save his teammates' blushes. Either still goes down as a '1' in the try cause column.

It's also important to note that centres who play in defensively sound teams like Melbourne, Cronulla, Brisbane and the Roosters are likely to face fewer tough decisions and broken play runners than the centres in teams with leaky middle defence and who consequently may end up higher on the try-cause list than they otherwise would have.

So who is the best?

With all that said, here at the best five centres by try causes per game in 2017.

Given premiers Melbourne's near-impenetrable defence last season there's no surprise to see their two top-string centres at the top of this list. Chambers is a Kangaroos and Origin star and does a stellar job marshalling the Storm's right edge but the real story here is young Curtis Scott. The budding Blues back played 10 games at left centre despite a huge preference for his long-term junior position of right centre. While Cheyse Blair conceded 10 tries in 13 games (0.77 per game) before his injury, his young replacement actually did far better defending in the same system than his more experienced teammate.

"[Scott] was a right-side centre, but with Will here he had to become a left centre, and he did that really, really well," Storm football director Frank Ponissi told NRL.com.

"That might have been a little bit behind any frustrations he experienced [while pushing for a first-grade spot]; he had such a preference for right centre, he played all his junior footy there. But with Will here he had to change over and he's done it quite quickly.

"[His defensive record] doesn't surprise me at all; he works very hard at it."

Both Cowboys centres also recorded outstanding numbers with both Linnett and Justin O'Neill (seven try causes in 17 games at 0.41 per game) in the NRL's top seven defensive centres. In a struggling Bulldogs team, noted defender Josh Morris (12 in 24 games at 0.50 per game and a league-high four try saves) was a standout.

And who needs work?

Unsurprisingly, centres who played for clubs that conceded a lot of tries and finished outside the top eight are concentrated near the top of this list.

Alarmingly for Wests Tigers coach Ivan Cleary, three of the top five are Tigers players. With their increased depth in the outside backs in 2017, it may mean the end of back-rower Michael Chee-Kam's stint filling in in the centres.

While the numbers also don't look favourable for Titan Dale Copley, on viewing those 25 try causes it's fair to say there were a significant number of those in which he was far from the only culprit. Like Cleary, Titans coach Garth Brennan has a few headaches to deal with – Copley's centre partner Konrad Hurrell had 14 try causes in 16 games at 0.88 per game and new centre recruit Brenko Lee was responsible for 13 try causes in 18 games at Canterbury last season.

"It is no surprise that we were a poor defensive team; part of that is the edge decisions that my edge and both edges of our team were making," Copley told NRL.com.

"Some was about stuff happening inside of us where we were caught short, and some was our own fault.

"But we were down the bottom as a defensive side for a reason. There is no one player [at fault]. It is a team effort. But with a new coach, a new defensive system, new players in key positions and having a full pre-season with the guys we are going to play with I am sure it can be turned around.

"Defence has been a focus in the pre-season because left, right, middle and the guys coming off the bench … we weren't good enough last year. I am sure you could find many stats to back that up."

Among the others who need to brush up a little are Raider Joey Leilua (21 in 24 games at 0.88 per game) and Manly rookie Brian Kelly (20 in 22 at 0.91) who were actually second and third after Copley in terms of most total try causes for the season.

Full table in order of fewest try causes per game to most try causes:

Rank Name 2017 club Matches at centre Try causes Average try causes
1 Will Chambers Storm 20 2 0.10
2 Curtis Scott Storm 10 2 0.20
3 Mitch Aubusson Roosters 10 2 0.20
4 Kurt Mann Dragons 7 2 0.29
5 Kane Linnett Cowboys 23 9 0.39
6 Ryan Matterson Roosters 5 2 0.40
7 Justin O'Neill Cowboys 17 7 0.41
8 Brad Takairangi Eels 18 8 0.44
9 Esan Marsters Wests Tigers 11 5 0.45
10 Josh Morris Bulldogs 24 12 0.50
11 Jack Bird Sharks 16 8 0.50
12 Tim Lafai Bulldogs 24 13 0.54
13 Michael Jennings Eels 21 12 0.57
14 Ricky Leutele Sharks 24 14 0.58
15 Waqa Blake Panthers 20 12 0.60
16 Dylan Walker Sea Eagles 24 15 0.63
17 Jarrod Croker Raiders 22 14 0.64
18 Tautau Moga Broncos 24 16 0.67
19 Kurt Capewell Sharks 9 6 0.67
20 Chase Stanley Bulldogs 6 4 0.67
21 Hymel Hunt Rabbitohs 10 7 0.70
22 Brenko Lee Bulldogs 18 13 0.72
23 Joseph Manu Roosters 15 11 0.73
24 Peter Mata'utia Knights 23 17 0.74
25 Kirisome Auva'a Eels 8 6 0.75
26 Blake Ayshford Warriors 17 13 0.76
27 Cheyse Blair Storm 13 10 0.77
28 James Roberts Broncos 23 18 0.78
29 Tyrone Peachey Panthers 15 12 0.80
30 Roberts Jennings Rabbitohs 11 9 0.82
31 David Fusitua Warriors 12 10 0.83
32 Joey Leilua Raiders 24 21 0.88
33 Konrad Hurrell Titans 16 14 0.88
34 Bryson Goodwin Rabbitohs 8 7 0.88
35 Javid Bowen Cowboys 8 7 0.88
36 Solomone Kata Warriors 19 17 0.89
37 Brian Kelly Sea Eagles 22 20 0.91
38 Euan Aitken Dragons 12 11 0.92
39 Dane Gagai Knights 16 15 0.94
40 Latrell Mitchell Roosters 14 14 1.00
41 Kevin Naiqama Wests Tigers 13 13 1.00
42 Dean Whare Panthers 10 10 1.00
43 Tyrell Fuimaono Rabbitohs 7 7 1.00
44 Siosifa Talakai Rabbitohs 7 7 1.00
45 Joe Wardle Knights 6 6 1.00
46 Aaron Gray Rabbitohs 5 5 1.00
47 Young Tonumaipea Storm 5 5 1.00
48 Jarryd Hayne Titans 5 5 1.00
49 Michael Chee-Kam Wests Tigers 9 11 1.22
50 Moses Suli Wests Tigers 9 12 1.33
51 Dale Copley Titans 16 25 1.56


https://www.nrl.com/news/2018/01/19/the-best-and-worst-defensive-centres-in-the-nrl/

Interesting list. Mann at 4 and Lafai at 12 (although listed as a Bulldog). Given they can both pass as well, perhaps they're the best bet as starting centres.

No.38 if you're looking for Euan Aitken.

 

[RufusRex]

Mann should be the first 3/4 picked in the team (i do like him at left wing but could cope with him at right centre)
Lafai is easily our best left centre and when adding his attacking game is one of the better left centres in the comp. Yes he has mistakes in his game but his output in terms of tries created for us and tries caused easily means he is in front of the bell curve for us.

 

[getsmarty]

Interesting list. Mann at 4 and Lafai at 12 (although listed as a Bulldog). Given they can both pass as well, perhaps they're the best bet as starting centres.

No.38 if you're looking for Euan Aitken.

Yet Mary will not pick him ? Puzzling as he is always going on about stats.

 

[RufusRex]

The thing with Mann as always is to look at the output of the bloke he replaced ...

In 2016 when he came into the team it was at left wing .. Prior to that Nighty scored 3 tries in 11 games .. Mann went to left wing and scored 10 tries in 11 games ... The same people inside him yet a massive difference in output.

In 2017 when he played it was at right centre. Again the stats above tell a story Aitken at that spot leaking a try a game, Mann 2 tries in 7 games. The same players in and around him in Nene and McCrone. Even the eels game in round 2 when Mann eventually came on the Eels threw the same play at him that found out Aitken and Mann shut it down.

The bloke is a must pick in our 3/4 line as i think Dufty with the extra kgs, Hunt and Widdop have the spine sewn up.

 

[Walpole]

Yet Mary will not pick him ? Puzzling as he is always going on about stats.

It's very odd to say the least. Mann is quicker than the current outside backs, defends well, can set up his winger and was considered as a centre by a far better coach than ours. Not that it means shit in the general scheme of things but he'd be in my team at centre for round 1.