Mann

[Crush]

Completely disagree. Publicly endorsing a kid with such little time in first grade and with some gaps in his game, especially as our long term option, is silliness. It promotes complacency as well as putting unnecessary pressure on the kid, while basically inviting other potential options to not bother trying. Even if he is the top option come round 1, there’s nothing to gain at all from saying hat he will be our long term option.

What did you think about the article during the week with nightingale saying he could play fullback if need be?
It found it frustrating. It was titled "Dragons still not settled on who will play fullback and veteren Jason Nightingale puts his hand up" How does that the make the "kids" feel. Maybe that will make them stop trying?
On Dufty, I think it could give him some confidence knowing that the club has faith in him and they aren't going to do a "kurt mann" on him and drop him back to reserve grade at the first drop ball.
As for the other kids, if they are going to stop trying because the club endorses Dufty as the longterm fullback then we are better off without them.

 

[dragonssamy61]

Hey TruSaint, you seem to be a Lafai fan. I'm not sold on him. He seems very inconsistent. He was ordinary in 2016, great at the start of 2017 then had some poor games at the back end of 2017 where he seemed to push that flick pass way too often.
If he was playing injured in 2016 then Mary is a goose for even selecting him but last year there was no excuse for him. He had a few shockers.
I'd still start him in round 1 but I hope he develops more than just the flick pass in his game. Hope he kills it, we need him too.

Crush
I see were your coming from with lafai but if your told to offload all the time it doesn't help.
With hunt there it will take some pressure of.
But we need to use people strengths correctly.
I can see a few changes at training ect.
So hopefully we will have more than one game plan.
I think it will work out .
We sould be more than competitive this year.
Imo

 

[Crush]

Crush
I see were your coming from with lafai but if your told to offload all the time it doesn't help.
With hunt there it will take some pressure of.
But we need to use people strengths correctly.
I can see a few changes at training ect.
So hopefully we will have more than one game plan.
I think it will work out .
We sould be more than competitive this year.
Imo

Hey Samy,
Ive heard that they are looking very good and are in a really positive mind-frame.
Can't wait to see if it translates to W on the park!

 

[dragonssamy61]

Hey Samy,
Ive heard that they are looking very good and are in a really positive mind-frame.
Can't wait to see if it translates to W on the park!

Hi crush
Talking about the new guys they as in Graham and hunt seem to fit in well.
Graham is putting extras with the young guys like lowrie and luc after training.
He and lowrie seem to get on very well .
Lowrie is a good kid he want to learn.
The young guys are all doing the hard yards wich is great.
Re Nighty at fb .
I'm like you but they do all train in other positions as well as there specialised postions.
It sould be a much imporved year.
Imo.
Anything less than top 6 is not acceptable.

 

[TruSaint]

Hey TruSaint, you seem to be a Lafai fan. I'm not sold on him. He seems very inconsistent. He was ordinary in 2016, great at the start of 2017 then had some poor games at the back end of 2017 where he seemed to push that flick pass way too often.
If he was playing injured in 2016 then Mary is a goose for even selecting him but last year there was no excuse for him. He had a few shockers.
I'd still start him in round 1 but I hope he develops more than just the flick pass in his game. Hope he kills it, we need him too.

Crush , you should have seen my brutal posts on Lafai early on when he was playing like a busted ar..se

I wanted him dropped .. Think he improved last year, some great off loads, got his step back and was dangerous with ball in hand.

He needs to keep that up as you say.

 

[possm]

Does anyone have info on the off-season performance of the following players:

Dufty
Mann
Lafai
Aitken
Nightingale
Macdonald
Field
Lomax
Herbert

Without knowing this info it is hard to give an opinion on which players deserve to be considered for inclusion in the first grade backline:

Dufty
All reports so far indicate he has put on weight and is looking stronger without the loss of speed. Given his performance in the last few games of 2017, I'd be inclined to select him at fullback. It would be great if one of the sports media journalist would ask Mary the question 'Did you instruct Dufty to pass the ball instead of running the ball from deep in our half. If, as I believe Mary did instruct Dufty to pass rather than run, then most of the negative about Dufty's performance is nullified.

Mann
From my point of view there is no better first grade winger at the Dragons at the moment. How did he go in off-season? If, as I believe, he performed well then he should be given the left wing spot unless Mary believes he has a problem with the centre positions.

Lafai
Poor 2016 form, good early season form in 2017 and then poor form towards the end of 2017. Was he playing injured in late 2017? Was it Marys game plan that curtailed his performance in late 2017 or was it that he can only play well when playing behind a dominant forward pack? Answers to these questions would make the decision to select him in the centres more clearer. However, what ever the answers, I fell certain that Mary will select him at centre first up in 2018. My preference would be to select him at right centre as a measure to block the leaking right hand edge in defence and add some creativity in attack. His experience on the right would greatly benefit the team.

Aitken
One would think that on last years performance, Aitken would need to have a great off-season to be selected to the right centre position in first grade. Being injured for much of last season did not help his cause however, Mary has show in the past a willingness to select first grade players on their off-season performance e.g. Lafai in 2017. I haven't heard of an outstanding performance by Aitken in this off-season. I have heard very little on how Aitken is going and so I believe he is on shaky ground and may be in the position where he will have to fight for his right centre position initially from reserve grade.

Nightingale
Nightingale will be our 'safe selection' whether he is selected on the wing or at fullback. Yes he does not have the speed of the young guns coming through but he does have the experience and attitude to do an adequate job in either position. Mary likes safe decisions and for this reason alone, I'm expecting him to select Nightingale outside Lafai on the right wing. If the correct defensive plan is adopted, our right edge will do a much better job in defence compared than last season.

Macdonald
Unless Macdonald has put in a super effort in the off-season - similar to the effort Lafai showed at boot camp prior to the start of last season, I tend to believe Macdonald will have to work to win back a wing spot form reserve grade in 2018. His form last season was poor and there have been no suggestions that he is having an outstanding off-season.

Field
Field is another young gun who has put on weight during the off-season in order to make is body more durable for the riggers of first grade. Millward has indicated that Field is a strong candidate for the fullback position in season 2018. All reports are that Field has lost no speed and looks to be able to handle the big guys better in defence. Given Mary's preference to keep a utility on the bench, Field may just find himself as the untility Mann of 2018.

Lomax
Lomax is one of our young guns who has been training the house down in the off-season; ala Lafai in the previous off-season. Lomax seems to be touted as our long term solution in the centres or at fullback however, I can't see Mary selecting him first up unless he has done so well that Mary feels it would be a good move to select Lomax on the left wing outside Mann at left centre. If Widdop can run direct behind a dominant forward pack and Mann can set up his winger, Lomax may just find himself in a good place; possibly our leading try scorer for 2018.

Herbert
I can't see Herbert being selected in round 1; he was not a stand out in reserve grade in 2017 and his name has not been highlighted as a stand out during the off-season. He is a player of the future and I'm quietly confident he may get a run at right centre/wing if Lafai or Nightingale becomes injured and of course if he is killing it in reserve grade.

 

[RufusRex]

Then the club signs Nene. Looking back, I'd prefer Mann.

When the club signed Nene .. mann had forced his way into the side and in doing so took the left wing forcing Nightingale to the right. Mann subsequently scored at a try a game showing all and sundry he was better there than Nighty who had 3 tries in 10 games or something.

Nene was bought to play right wing and instead of making the right decision and keeping the obviously better left wing the club shafted Mann.

 

[SEAT 1A]

When the club signed Nene .. mann had forced his way into the side and in doing so took the left wing forcing Nightingale to the right. Mann subsequently scored at a try a game showing all and sundry he was better there than Nighty who had 3 tries in 10 games or something.

Nene was bought to play right wing and instead of making the right decision and keeping the obviously better left wing the club shafted Mann.

Thanks for confirming the issue.

 

[BennyV]

What did you think about the article during the week with nightingale saying he could play fullback if need be?
It found it frustrating. It was titled "Dragons still not settled on who will play fullback and veteren Jason Nightingale puts his hand up" How does that the make the "kids" feel. Maybe that will make them stop trying?
On Dufty, I think it could give him some confidence knowing that the club has faith in him and they aren't going to do a "kurt mann" on him and drop him back to reserve grade at the first drop ball.
As for the other kids, if they are going to stop trying because the club endorses Dufty as the longterm fullback then we are better off without them.

I was worried that NIghtingale seems t be a realistic option at fullback, but it is just an article! We've also seen articles on Lomax and Mann wanting the spot, and it's the same thing, articles. I am all for Dufty starting at 1 and I hope that if he is going to start at 1, Mary has told him so, but he should not be saying 'you are locked into the spot long term' and there certainly shouldnt be any public announcement saying as much.
I remember Price once mentioned early on that Rein was locked in as our long term hooker and is seen as a future captain of the club - we wasted years with that clown playing at hooker! Unless they are proven stars (Widdop, Hunt, Friz, Vaughan, JDB even) then no one should be mentioned to be a long term lock-in, expecially when we are so flush with options on teh same level.

 

[TruSaint]

The only reason we should see Flo at FB is injury to Mann / Dufty. Even then I think there are other juniors whom could fill the role in case of an injury crisis.

Flo does the job admirably, but is a bandaid solution. He should finish off his career on the wing.

Also agree wholeheartedly with Benny V that no one with the exception of 6-7 proven players should have a mortgage over a spot in the 17.

 

[RufusRex]

The only reason we should see Nighty at fullback is if we got to the game early and reserves were still playing

 

[giboz71]

As crazy as it seems, if Nighty had to play anywhere, it would be better if it was FB. Defensively sound, good under the high ball and at least has a clue when running backline set plays (unlike our recently departed world class fullback). Still has the strength and leg drive on kick returns as well, and less likely to get exposed by fast wingers.

 

[TruSaint]

As crazy as it seems, if Nighty had to play anywhere, it would be better if it was FB. Defensively sound, good under the high ball and at least has a clue when running backline set plays (unlike our recently departed world class fullback). Still has the strength and leg drive on kick returns as well, and less likely to get exposed by fast wingers.

giboz, i respectfully disagree. Not that Flo cant be stable and do the job,.. yes he can. He is now at the end of his career and whilst we can argue as to whether or not he should have retired 1 year earlier, he hasnt. Mary will select him week in week out.

In that case i see his value as being experience , his usually dummy half runs, and finish off tries from a short distance. . Nothing more.

Whilst Duges is now a Shark, i think we will miss him in the short term. I believe he was coached ( as he quoted many times in press ), to be a metre eater period. His defence though saved many a tries and i still rate the kid. SOO / OZ rep... always one of the 1st chosen, he can hold his head high.

I know many are glad to see the back of him, and there are many threads about the why's and how's of him leaving, the fact remains he is an elite player... unfortunately gone to our arch enemy. So we move on.

 

[watatank]

Dufty is going to be our fullback to start the season but he's only played 6 games and hasn't proven himself as a long term player yet.

It's a spot that is up for grabs, no avoiding that. It's really up to someone to make that spot theirs. Dufty has first shot, if he doesn't take it then it will be up to someone else and so it goes.

 

[TruSaint]

Dufty is going to be our fullback to start the season but he's only played 6 games and hasn't proven himself as a long term player yet.

It's a spot that is up for grabs, no avoiding that. It's really up to someone to make that spot theirs. Dufty has first shot, if he doesn't take it then it will be up to someone else and so it goes.

I have no doubt at all that Dufty will be our 1 to start. I am also 100% sure Nene will be on one wing. I am also sure Lafai and Aitken will be our centres to start. I say that based on Mary's past. Not that i agree with it. Mann being a benchy doesnt sit well with me. He is far superior to some of the players above.

 

[Overseas dragon]

Very likely Mary's bench
14 au mau
15 Latimore
16 all good
17 Mann or field
Your likely team
1 Duffy
2 Nightingale
3 lafai
4 Aitken or Mann if he's injured
5 McDonald
6 Widdop
7 HUNT. Nice to finally have a number 7
8 BIG RED
9 McInnes
10 the Italian stallion
11 frizell
12 Sims
13 De Berlin not a bad team but the bench is a concern a coach with foresight might have luch and host on the bench with no backs McDonald would be playing with the reserve grade coach and Mann takes his place .......

 

[Overseas dragon]

Mann can cover anywhere from 1 to 6 so play him in place of Mcslowcoach and have 4 forwards on the bench if a back goes down somebody like Sims or Frizell can cover

 

[BennyV]

Very likely Mary's bench
14 au mau
15 Latimore
16 all good
17 Mann or field
Your likely team
1 Duffy
2 Nightingale
3 lafai
4 Aitken or Mann if he's injured
5 McDonald
6 Widdop
7 HUNT. Nice to finally have a number 7
8 BIG RED
9 McInnes
10 the Italian stallion
11 frizell
12 Sims
13 De Berlin not a bad team but the bench is a concern a coach with foresight might have luch and host on the bench with no backs McDonald would be playing with the reserve grade coach and Mann takes his place .......

Having Host and Leilua on the bench is a waste. One or the other, unless Host starts in place of Sims (who goes to prop).

 

[Belta]

Overseas Dragon said; "Mann ... [to replace Macca] ... 4 forwards on the bench...Simms or Frizzell can ... [play centre]

I reckon most back rowers in the NRL have the capacity to fill in at centre, and Im sure it happened a few times last year, possibly remember Jackson for the dogs out wide abit. Even with Thomo gone, the Dragons could do it also, I believe that try Simms scored when he ran 50 metres after stealing the ball shows he would possess the athleticism and speed to fill in at centre as would Frizzell.

 

[getsmarty]

Very likely Mary's bench
14 au mau
15 Latimore
16 all good
17 Mann or field
Your likely team
1 Duffy
2 Nightingale
3 lafai
4 Aitken or Mann if he's injured
5 McDonald
6 Widdop
7 HUNT. Nice to finally have a number 7
8 BIG RED
9 McInnes
10 the Italian stallion
11 frizell
12 Sims
13 De Berlin not a bad team but the bench is a concern a coach with foresight might have luch and host on the bench with no backs McDonald would be playing with the reserve grade coach and Mann takes his place .......

Yep...Send this off to the coach so that he doesn't accidentally cut & paste last years team.

P.S I reckon this is the team that will be picked. except for maybe Leilua on bench for Latimore or Allgood.