Manu poll - to Vulcans for a week?

[Warrior@Heart]

Vatuvei is a metre eater there's no question about that, he still has a bit of speed as well as we saw when he chased down Blake Ferguson but I think a winger needs to be

1. Good under the high ball (Improved over the years but i'd prefer someone who catches the ball rather than just pats it back)
2. A good one on one defender (He's been missing tackles all year)
3. Able to read the attack in order to know when to shut down a play or stay on his wing (Never really been good in this aspect)
4. Convert try scoring opportunities (He's butchered a couple because of his hands but has still crossed the line a few times)
5. Provide good metres coming out of our own end. (He's most probably the best in the NRL in this regard)

With that said I think he's more suited to the second row, one on one close to the line he is very hard to stop as we have seen, this won't change if he's playing as an edge foward, imagine how much attention he'd attract running a decoy line it'll open up so much space on the outside. He'd still be good for 10 metres a carry in our own half and he'll be an aerial threat 3 in from the sideline between fullback and winger. Vatuvei to Vulcans to learn the role of edge foward.

 

[attila_the_gorilla]

Manu I think your bias makes you think that every winger needs to play like a prop. Tupou is a winger and plays like one. He's scored a few very impressive finishes this year, proper wingers' tries, not the "run over 3 defenders" types that you'd like to see.

 

[Warmess]

This is of course completely subjective but for mine this is nonsense. Plenty of times in the past injury-ravaged Manu has run out on the field looking short of a gallop. Right now he looks in great shape physically and is hitting the line as hard as ever. As for scoring tries, well, you need the opportunities and he hasn't had them.

Yeah of course all this stuff is subjective, and a lot of it comes down to what type of player people like etc, etc. I'll give you that Henry plays a big part in this, and that Vatuvei has set up Henry a few times this year from the air.

Again, subjective, but- I think it's pretty clear to most people that he's getting almost no good ball at all. His involvement is restricted to hit-ups (where he is as good as ever at the moment) and chasing bombs. When it comes to the bombs, in my opinion he clearly either scores or creates more tries than he concedes, and has a massively high % of actually beating his opposite to the ball (regardless of the outcome).

Sure he'll beat other people to the ball, and that's great. He then bats it back and sometimes we'll score, sometimes the opposition gets it, but hey, that's league. He has some good aerial antics, but some times I wish he'd just try to catch the ball more, like he did the other week.

Again, it's like it's opposite day. People hang on Manu's every mistake more than any player in the squad and you're saying we're being flippant?

Yes. I may not have been quite so outspoken on it in the past, but my opinion on Vatuvei has changed this year. I don't think I hang on Manu's mistakes more than other players, like I said, I feel like he used to provide more and I could overlook those errors. I've been really dark on Ta'ai the last few weeks cause of the stupid errors in his game.

With the exception of 2009 which was a poor season for Manu and for the side as a whole I see absolutely no basis for either contention there

This is purely subjective. Many things have changed since those days. We don't rely on Vatuvei so much nowadays, but I do genuinely think he is not the same player as he was.

imo we are currently carrying a player on either side (Henry and Tupou) who present next to no attacking threat to the opposition. Take Manu out of the current side and I question whether we are really as laden with genuine attacking threats as you think.

I really wish we had another winger who was pushing his claim to make first grade. We really have no choice but to continue with Vatuvei. Manu tries his ass off every game. Fish doesn't want to play wing and would likely be as uninterested as Inu likes to look.

The only concern I have with Vatuvei is his error count. If he fixed that stuff up for good I'd be more than happy with him. I think I've just come to the realisation that he will never sort this stuff out completely (or as completely as you could expect from a 'world class' NRL winger) and 2012 has had me questioning his future.

He'll be there against the Storm and I'll cheer him on like I always do, but his errors will cost us more games this year.

 

[Warrior@Heart]

Might I add, i'm a big fan of Vatuvei just think he could take his game to another level in the fowards, the wing just magnifies his flaws in my opinion and I think he can contribute to his team better at second row. Never questioned his commitment or attitude which is why he's still in my 17 just not on the wing.

 

[shinobi]

Hes not gonna learn how to catch spending a week in 2nds.

 

[Manu Vatuvei]

Manu I think your bias makes you think that every winger needs to play like a prop.

On what basis am I biased towards Vatuvei? Rating a player doesn't make you biased towards them it just means you have a different opinion to those who don't rate him. I don't know Manu, I've never met him, we're not related, I have no reason for bias. I have this username because I'm not very creative (all my usernames on forums are just other people's names lol) and 5 years ago when Thierry Henry left Arsenal and I felt compelled to change my name Manu was my favorite Warriors player and I didn't have any other stand-out faves in other sports.

All wingers take hit-ups early in the tackle count, it's part of the job description.

Tupou is a winger and plays like one.

What does this mean? Manu is better at taking hit-ups and is more of a threat under the high ball. These are core roles for wingers these days. Tupou c**ks up all the time under the high ball, fielding kicks and making misreads on D. It gets swept under the carpet because he's "Solid Bill".

He's scored a few very impressive finishes this year, proper wingers' tries, not the "run over 3 defenders" types that you'd like to see.

Unless a "proper winger's try" is an uncontested 5 metre run to the line I dispute that. He did well on a couple of occasions against Melbourne but Manu could have scored those tries too, and on another day Tupou might have fluffed them- there's an element of luck there as those type of situations are always touch and go- I certainly wouldn't put Tupou in the category of wingers who you know are going to score in tricky situations (fluffed one last week didn't he?).

Tries like last night's, any player on the field should be scoring that try. Jacob Lillyman or Sione Lousi would score that try.

 

[Manu Vatuvei]

I think playing in the forwards would magnify Manu's errors as, stuck in the toil, he would have less opportunity to make up for it by e.g. beating his man one on one for a try. I think you take away a lot of his upside bringing him in too close. A different type of player (T-Rex) benefits because he lacks Manu's speed but has more skill. Manu thrives on space to wind-up.

 

[attila_the_gorilla]

Errors deep in the attacking zone, they're not as costly as the errors you make at the back as a winger.

 

[ozbash]

Manu is way too valuable to have in the Vulcans.

I'd move him to the forwards though, probably get rid of Mateo

 

[BringBackRovelli]

Saw this on another site. Stats only tell part of the story, but handy.

2012

errors
manu 24. bill tupou 8,

Missed tackles
tupou 17, vatuvei 28

tries
tupou 5, vatuvei 4

metres gained
tupou 949, vatuvei 1152

hitups
Vatuvei 120, tupou 111

metres per hitup
Vatuvei 9.6, Tupou 8.5

Line breaks
Tupou 4, Vatuvei 4

Tackles
Vatuvei 54, Tupou 48


mate where do they find these statistis?

 

[Philip_Smith007]

Outside of the errors that as stated have always been in his game, my 2 concerns are.

1: He didn't back himself to take on/out Utai

2: He is into batting the ball back a lot now days, even when he could catch and fall over the line.

He needs to regain some confidence.

I guess we are just starting to expect a high performance level from the Warriors now days.

 

[Wheeled Warrior]

Manu is way too valuable to have in the Vulcans.

I'd move him to the forwards though, probably get rid of Mateo

OZBASH you really do live and breathe your namesake. :lol:

 

[ozbash]

Lol, took a while to get through WW, but I get your drift...

Actually, I dont class fleaty as an aussie, more a Tongwi..

 

[Penrose Warrior]

Outside of the errors that as stated have always been in his game, my 2 concerns are.

1: He didn't back himself to take on/out Utai

2: He is into batting the ball back a lot now days, even when he could catch and fall over the line.

He needs to regain some confidence.

I guess we are just starting to expect a high performance level from the Warriors now days.

Utai slipped. Nothing to do with Manu, just bad luck. He would've had him if he stayed on his feet.

Agreed on the other stuff though, although the batting back has a lot to do with other teams putting bigger numbers on him and being unable to get a clean catch and present it over the line.

 

[WarriorDefence]

No to the vulcans- yes to the forwards. Perfect time to do it too, he can train there for two weeks and fish could have a couple of weeks training on he wing or bring inu in if u like.

 

[Manu Vatuvei]

Actually, I dont class fleaty as an aussie, more a Tongwi..

So you have the power to deem people Kiwis despite them having no Kiwi connections, as well as to clean the Australian-ness away from a born and bred Aussie- amazing.

 

[ozbash]

Actually, with the bye this week we might see the big fella in reserve grade ?

 

[ozbash]

So you have the power to deem people Kiwis despite them having no Kiwi connections, as well as to clean the Australian-ness away from a born and bred Aussie- amazing.

Yes, I have super powers.

You want to buy some?

 

[Manu Vatuvei]

Yes, I have super powers.

You want to buy some?

Certainly not the ones you have...

 

[ozbash]

You had your chance, dont say I didnt offer..