Mary to make Key Positional Changes?

[Old Timer]

The logic of some of these scenarios people are offering up beggars belief.

We have the NSW FB who has most excellent KR and HU stats.

We buy a centre from Melbourne who in effect is surplus to their requirements.

Some people are advocating we move the NSW fullback to centre and move the centre we purchased to fullback.

If we needed a FB then buy 1 if we needed a centre then buy 1 but to force 2 changes and have players out of their natural positions is ridiculous.

If Mary thinks Dugan is better suited to centre then OK but buy a proven FB to cover the position instead of hoping we can cover it. Positive intent is far better than hit and hope.

All the talk about Mann played here / played there as a junior counts for very little as it is not the position he played in the NRL when we purchased him. Where is the evidence that he can play full back at NRL level?

This type of scenario reeks of not having the best game plan to suit the style of the players we have and hoping by moving them we will achieve a better result.

If players don't fit the mould for the team move them on or if the coaching staff can't get the desired result move them on. Unfortunately we have habit of keeping both.

 

[dragondonar1]

I think a swap between mann and duges is not wise.
A better option in my opinion is put widdop at fullback duges in center and mann in halves. The only reason for this is we need a ball playing fullback. Widdop provides us with this option.
We need a strike centre. Duges is perfect in this position
Widdop and benji sometimes go missing in games. One or the other is dominate in a game. Option stick mann in the halves to partner benji.
The good thing is this year we have depth in alot of positions. Mary has alot of thinking about players positions.
GO THE MIGHTY DRAGONS.

 

[BrissyRedV]

The logic of some of these scenarios people are offering up beggars belief.

We have the NSW FB who has most excellent KR and HU stats.

We buy a centre from Melbourne who in effect is surplus to their requirements.

Some people are advocating we move the NSW fullback to centre and move the centre we purchased to fullback.

If we needed a FB then buy 1 if we needed a centre then buy 1 but to force 2 changes and have players out of their natural positions is ridiculous.

If Mary thinks Dugan is better suited to centre then OK but buy a proven FB to cover the position instead of hoping we can cover it. Positive intent is far better than hit and hope.

All the talk about Mann played here / played there as a junior counts for very little as it is not the position he played in the NRL when we purchased him. Where is the evidence that he can play full back at NRL level?

This type of scenario reeks of not having the best game plan to suit the style of the players we have and hoping by moving them we will achieve a better result.

If players don't fit the mould for the team move them on or if the coaching staff can't get the desired result move them on. Unfortunately we have habit of keeping both.

Also a NSW centre from 2014. Sure, hard to compare Mann as a FB but lets compare the Dugan who played at centre from rd 13 2014. If we take a snap shot of his stats:

2014 from rd 13 as a centre
Played 11
Try Assists 2
Line breaks 9
Tries 9

2015 As FB
Played 21
TAs 2
LBs 12
T 7

http://www.totalfootystats.com.au/n...rge-illawarra-dragons/josh-dugan#.Vk11Hv4gkis

Sure, this is only a snap shot of some of his stats, but I really do not think we lose anything if we make him our new strike centre and in fact may gain something from it. I am sure Mann who has done ok as a centre for Melbourne can adapt back to his more natural position at the back.

 

[Exsilium]

"On the ball"

Is that like "on the line"?

I enjoyed watching Dugan at centre. He spends plenty of time there on the sweeping plays so he might as well save his legs.

One of the best tackle breakers who will find plenty of space. Good online defense too.

However, Mann at fullback....that's a gamble

 

[The Nick]

I think a swap between mann and duges is not wise.
A better option in my opinion is put widdop at fullback duges in center and mann in halves. The only reason for this is we need a ball playing fullback. Widdop provides us with this option.
We need a strike centre. Duges is perfect in this position
Widdop and benji sometimes go missing in games. One or the other is dominate in a game. Option stick mann in the halves to partner benji.
The good thing is this year we have depth in alot of positions. Mary has alot of thinking about players positions.
GO THE MIGHTY DRAGONS.

But how is Widdop a better ball player than Mann?

 

[BrissyRedV]

"On the ball"

Is that like "on the line"?

I enjoyed watching Dugan at centre. He spends plenty of time there on the sweeping plays so he might as well save his legs.

One of the best tackle breakers who will find plenty of space. Good online defense too.

However, Mann at fullback....that's a gamble

Darius Boyd at FB was a gamble too.

 

[The Nick]

Darius Boyd at FB was a gamble too.

People on here bagged him during and at the end of the '09 season too because of his perceived lack of try scoring ability.

 

[BrissyRedV]

People on here bagged him during and at the end of the '09 season too because of his perceived lack of try scoring ability.

Yep. Didn't score many but was well and truly up there for try assists.

 

[Dragon66]

The logic of some of these scenarios people are offering up beggars belief.

We have the NSW FB who has most excellent KR and HU stats.

We buy a centre from Melbourne who in effect is surplus to their requirements.

Some people are advocating we move the NSW fullback to centre and move the centre we purchased to fullback.

If we needed a FB then buy 1 if we needed a centre then buy 1 but to force 2 changes and have players out of their natural positions is ridiculous.

If Mary thinks Dugan is better suited to centre then OK but buy a proven FB to cover the position instead of hoping we can cover it. Positive intent is far better than hit and hope.

All the talk about Mann played here / played there as a junior counts for very little as it is not the position he played in the NRL when we purchased him. Where is the evidence that he can play full back at NRL level?

This type of scenario reeks of not having the best game plan to suit the style of the players we have and hoping by moving them we will achieve a better result.

If players don't fit the mould for the team move them on or if the coaching staff can't get the desired result move them on. Unfortunately we have habit of keeping both.

OT, you surprise me. I believe we never bought Mann to be a centre. He was never a natural centre. When he was in Melbourne he was never going to get a game at fullback as long as player named Slater wore the number 1 jersey. But at 31 he wouldn't have had to wait too long except for a player called Munster proving to be exceptional. He decided to move on. He was a fullback surplus to requirements.

Give Mann a chance to prove himself. I trust Mulholland (we will miss him) to recognise genuine talent. And he never talked about Mann as a centre.

Yes, he will have to prove himself, but he has done as much as he possibly can in the lower grades where he played FB/fiveeight and proven himself to be exceptional.

Can he take the next step up. Let's wait and see before we pass judgement. The trials will be his opportunity, let's hope he can deliver, but until then I'm prepared give him the benefit of the doubt.

On Dugan you are right. His KR and HU's are exceptional, except they don't win you football games. Scoring points do!, which is what we don't do well. In SOO he is playing with the best 16 players in NSW. His job is so much more simpler.

 

[The Nick]

Just like Dugan may not set many up but still offers so much at fullback.

 

[BrissyRedV]

Just like Dugan may not set many up but still offers so much at fullback.

Yes he does but just having a quick look through his stat's from 2014 and 15 highlighted in my previous post, imo he can offer as much, if not more from centre. I know stat's aren't the be all and end all but he did spit out some pretty good figures for a centre. But the argument is not so much on the Dugans ability. He will excel where ever he is put. It is more about getting the right players in the right to positions to get us scoring more points. Yes the Dugans kick returns are a spectacle to watch. Yes his defensive work at the back is excellent. But I believe our attack falters when ever he receives the ball in the attacking zone and with our much improved pack next season, that will at least negate the loss of his kick returns if he is moved to centre. I also believe with a FB that can play ball at the back in a similar fashion to how Boyd did will help us score more points.

 

[Objective View]

All depends on whether Mann can play the half role to NRL standard.

What do you mean NRL standard?!

I thought he was Dragons marquee signing :sarcasm:

Straight Shooter

 

[Vasilevsky]

What do you mean NRL standard?!

I thought he was Dragons marquee signing :sarcasm:

Straight Shooter

As far as I can see, he is a depth signing that Melbourne didn't want. Half the homies on this forum seem to think he is a marquee signing. Because he is from Melbourne he is automatically a better centre than Aitken or Matautai and even a better FB than Dugan:shock:.

Straight Shoopter

 

[Jubileeboy]

As far as I can see, he is a depth signing that Melbourne didn't want. Half the homies on this forum seem to think he is a marquee signing. Because he is from Melbourne he is automatically a better centre than Aitken or Matautai and even a better FB than Dugan:shock:.

Straight Shoopter

Your claim that Melbourne didn't want Mann is laughable and so far from the truth.
Mann is better than a depth signing and will be in the 17 somewhere.
What he does offer is quality back up for 3 positions in our back line.
Very highly rated by many that know the game and brings exceptional value to our squad.

As for Objective View...you are the only one calling him a marquee signing.
I think it's fair to say we have not signed a 'marquee signing' for 2016 and probably not required to. Better cap management sees an even spread of quality across most positions. Our 2016 squad is fairly well balanced now.

 

[BennyV]

Yes he does but just having a quick look through his stat's from 2014 and 15 highlighted in my previous post, imo he can offer as much, if not more from centre. I know stat's aren't the be all and end all but he did spit out some pretty good figures for a centre. But the argument is not so much on the Dugans ability. He will excel where ever he is put. It is more about getting the right players in the right to positions to get us scoring more points. Yes the Dugans kick returns are a spectacle to watch. Yes his defensive work at the back is excellent. But I believe our attack falters when ever he receives the ball in the attacking zone and with our much improved pack next season, that will at least negate the loss of his kick returns if he is moved to centre. I also believe with a FB that can play ball at the back in a similar fashion to how Boyd did will help us score more points.

It's also about us leaking less points. And much like the loss of Brett 'just a winger' Morris, moving Dugan from his natural position will hurt us in that department. His positional play, organising of the defensive line and defence are second only to Slater. If you haven't notice how many potential opposition tries he has cleaned up, just watch a few games this year - so often will he be the guy under the ball when an opposition player tries to dig his way over the line, or he will be the guy to swoop on a grubber with the opposition running through to score, and he can defuse a bomb like nobodies business. Throw in his kick returns, which have gotten us out of massive trouble on so many occasions, and it would go beyond defiance of logic to have anyone else at the back in defence.

BUT

The inclusion of Mann in the 17 gives us three ball players, two of which are also exceptional ball runners. By allowing Mann or Widdop to be that 'sweeper' in the attacking zone, we gain the added bonus of a big, strong, power runner out wide in Dugan (on top of giving us a guy who is able to pick the right option when it comes to attack). It's a minor change in attacking structure that's been mentioned countless times in here, so I hope to hell someone from the coaching staff checks this place out...

 

[Old Timer]

Benny V has clearly pointed out the big + for JD at the back and I agree.

If he played centre the winger would probably freeze to death.

The other issue with Duges at centre would be his insistence for the ball in hand which will potentially diminish the wide running forward's role.

As I have said on numerous posts the in balance starts in the halves.

Pick the 5/8 (GW or BM gotta keep Vas happy) and then pick the specialist half (not BM or GW) and let the half do the organising between forwards and backs and Dugan will be far more potent from FB.

We don't attack well because we are not properly organised as simple as that. Get the 7 right and then the attack will flow and we will not have to move any players at all.

MR's decision making will become easier with an organising half. At the moment he has 2 halves and a FB demanding the ball and in the meantime working out whether he should run himself. Passing hopefully will also become easier if there is common direction. If he doesn't improve then Havilli into the starting side.

IMO if a Peter Sterling type was playing half we would have scored a lot more tries in the last 2 years.

 

[The Nick]

Your claim that Melbourne didn't want Mann is laughable and so far from the truth.
Mann is better than a depth signing and will be in the 17 somewhere.
What he does offer is quality back up for 3 positions in our back line.
Very highly rated by many that know the game and brings exceptional value to our squad.

As for Objective View...you are the only one calling him a marquee signing.
I think it's fair to say we have not signed a 'marquee signing' for 2016 and probably not required to. Better cap management sees an even spread of quality across most positions. Our 2016 squad is fairly well balanced now.

OV has demonstrated on multiple occasions that he in fact DOES NOT know the game. FACT.

Straight Shooter

 

[Vasilevsky]

Your claim that Melbourne didn't want Mann is laughable and so far from the truth.
Mann is better than a depth signing and will be in the 17 somewhere.
What he does offer is quality back up for 3 positions in our back line.
Very highly rated by many that know the game and brings exceptional value to our squad.

Really? Who for example? I hope I'm wrong but from what I have seen of him for Melbourne, he won't be a centre in front of Matautai or Aitken and absolutely won't fullback in front of Dugan.

 

[bottle]

See when he said 'I thought' he lost me straight away because I knew that couldn't be true.

 

[bottle]

Really? Who for example? I hope I'm wrong but from what I have seen of him for Melbourne, he won't be a centre in front of Matautai or Aitken and absolutely won't fullback in front of Dugan.

You're in for some surprises in 2016, should be exciting for you.