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Mascord refused to watch ANZAC test

RoosTah

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and the NRL won't expand to 18 cos of the lack of talent and the NRL is a near $2biliion business......so which league is being mismanaged??

The one that just cut its competition by 2 teams and whose best teams couldn't get within 30 points of their NRL counterparts at the most recent extended WCC.

Seriously mate, Rugby League is a f**king joke in England. Nobody gives a shit about it over there and it shows.
 

strong_latte

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1,665
Seriously mate, Rugby League is a f**king joke in England. Nobody gives a shit about it over there and it shows.

This is definitely how it feels... Honestly, you can't even banter with average poms over an England v Aus test match because they all tell you the game is irrelevant in England. It's like a Pom trying to banter with an Aussie because their soccer team is playing ours.
 
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The one that just cut its competition by 2 teams and whose best teams couldn't get within 30 points of their NRL counterparts at the most recent extended WCC.

Seriously mate, Rugby League is a f**king joke in England. Nobody gives a shit about it over there and it shows.
You have to give the RFL for trying to spread Rugby League, but the NRL won't even put another NRL team in Brisbane for fear of unsetting Wayne Bennett.
 

Evil Homer

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Weird thread. England didn't even play, and in fact England and Australia have only faced each other twice since 2011 due to the ARL routinely ducking out of competition.
 

RoosTah

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You have to give the RFL for trying to spread Rugby League, but the NRL won't even put another NRL team in Brisbane for fear of unsetting Wayne Bennett.

Brisbane works bloody well as a one town team, so I don't really know if they're the next best place for expansion. Perth has had a tonne of work put into over the past decade, and I reckon they are the next logical place to take a team, and after them I'd be more inclined to go with NZ2 (Christchurch or Wellington, but leaning toward Christchurch) because it would help develop the game in NZ and therefore further increase the player depth for the Kiwis.

Weird thread. England didn't even play, and in fact England and Australia have only faced each other twice since 2011 due to the ARL routinely ducking out of competition.

Well it started out about Mascrod's rant about how all the ills of int. RL are the fault of the NRL and went on to the alternate view that it's more down to England being so weak and poorly run.
 
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Weird thread. England didn't even play, and in fact England and Australia have only faced each other twice since 2011 due to the ARL routinely ducking out of competition.
When the NRL says jump the ARL says how high.
The ARL are imo in the pockets of the NRL.
Union are now light years ahead of us in international competition, due to a large part because of the insular NRL clubs.
 

RoosTah

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Union are now light years ahead of us in international competition, due to a large part because of the insular NRL clubs.

Blaming NRL clubs for the state of the international game makes absolutely no sense... the problems with the spread and depth of international league didn't materialise yesterday; they massively predate any positions of power any influence NRL clubs have had over the availability of players.

Heck, if you want proof of that, just look at Union in Europe! The big French and English clubs often won't release their star players for rep duties with France and England for when they go on SH tours! The last time France came out here they sent pretty well their third side because the clubs wouldn't play ball with the FFR. That's a bit worse than say the Broncos saying Milford can't play for Samoa and by your logic international Union should therefore be falling on its arse.

The difference is Union has had a stronger presence internationally thanks to the old boys networks in the global university system and so has had a base level public engagement and knowledge level with which to build.
 

Evil Homer

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Well it started out about Mascrod's rant about how all the ills of int. RL are the fault of the NRL and went on to the alternate view that it's more down to England being so weak and poorly run.
The problems that Mascord was talking about are entirely down to the NRL. The other argument really has nothing to do with this topic. If you want to talk about the fact that RL in England is piss weak then yeah, it is. But there are reasons for that and TBH I don't think the greatest sports administrators in the world could do much if anything to improve things. If I was in charge of the RFL I probably wouldn't really be doing too much different to what they are doing, the situation in England as a whole is pretty hopeless due to a large number of factors such as geography, demographics, finance, public perception and whole load of other things that are frankly out of anyone's control.

The problems in the Southern Hemisphere on the other hand largely are avoidable, most of them are just down to ignorance/neglect and self-interest of people who are too stupid and insular to see the bigger picture. Things could be fixed in the SH tomorrow if the administrators wanted to, but instead they continue to make the same mistakes over and over again year after year.
 

RoosTah

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2,257
The problems that Mascord was talking about are entirely down to the NRL. The other argument really has nothing to do with this topic. If you want to talk about the fact that RL in England is piss weak then yeah, it is. But there are reasons for that and TBH I don't think the greatest sports administrators in the world could do much if anything to improve things. If I was in charge of the RFL I probably wouldn't really be doing too much different to what they are doing, the situation in England as a whole is pretty hopeless due to a large number of factors such as geography, demographics, finance, public perception and whole load of other things that are frankly out of anyone's control.

Why though? Why is it "pretty hopeless" and why are demographics and public perception a problem? I thought that second article made an interesting point about the NFL - if an NFL team in London can be viable strategy with a smart long term engagement plan, then how is it that the Super League have never managed one of any substance?

The problems in the Southern Hemisphere on the other hand largely are avoidable, most of them are just down to ignorance/neglect and self-interest of people who are too stupid and insular to see the bigger picture. Things could be fixed in the SH tomorrow if the administrators wanted to, but instead they continue to make the same mistakes over and over again year after year.

What mistakes are you talking about? Eligibility? The international schedule? I think it's worth pointing out that the NRL will be regaining control of the draw in a couple years time and won't do mid-season rep rounds anymore so it can focus on an end of year slot.
 

Evil Homer

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Why though? Why is it "pretty hopeless" and why are demographics and public perception a problem? I thought that second article made an interesting point about the NFL - if an NFL team in London can be viable strategy with a smart long term engagement plan, then how is it that the Super League have never managed one of any substance?
The NFL is one of the biggest and most prestigious sports leagues in the world. Each individual NFL team probably has 10x the budget of the entirety of RL in the UK. And more importantly, the NFL has huge visibility and is culturally relevant. People have grown up watching American movies and TV shows and have heard of most of the NFL teams, they know the basics of American football even if they've never watched the sport. RL is not relevant. It's played almost exclusively in small industrial Northern towns where nobody really wants to be, and if you aren't from one of those places then you're unlikely to have ever even heard of the sport or know what it is because the media coverage of RL in the UK is and always has been absolutely non-existent. It's probably difficult to understand if you're from Australia but the sport really is 100% underground here. I live about an hour's drive from four Super League clubs and nobody where I live knows what RL is. They might have heard the name of the sport, but that's it. Virtually nobody would have ever seen a match or know the rules, most people don't even realize it's separate from RU. I'd say probably 95% of the population of England have either never heard of RL or have no clue what it is, and a large number of those people will just dismiss it straight away because of that. To be honest, for RL to succeed and raise its profile in the UK it probably needs to grow internationally and then come in that way. The only time cricket and RU get any real coverage or interest is during their international seasons, we don't have that because international RL is so weak so we get nothing.

Not sure if you're a little confused BTW but there has only ever been one London club in Super League. And it's probably the worst run sporting organization I've ever seen, to the extent where if I lived in London I probably wouldn't attend their matches if you paid me to go. They really are a joke.
What mistakes are you talking about? Eligibility? The international schedule? I think it's worth pointing out that the NRL will be regaining control of the draw in a couple years time and won't do mid-season rep rounds anymore so it can focus on an end of year slot.
All of those things. Eligibility, clubs not releasing players, prioritizing SOO and even CvC over international matches, Australia and NZ hoovering up other nations' talent, lack of any sort of strategy in terms of organizing regular fixtures or tournaments for SH nations, Australia regularly refusing to take part in international matches. Just general all-round disdain for the international game.

The rep round is actually a great initiative and probably the best thing the NRL have ever done for international footy, so typical that they would pull the rug from under it just as it's building and gaining a foothold.
 

strong_latte

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The rep round is actually a great initiative and probably the best thing the NRL have ever done for international footy, so typical that they would pull the rug from under it just as it's building and gaining a foothold.

The way rep round has worked for the last couple years has been a lot better, but it's still a very dislocated time slot for it to be played and I think most people think it would better if those emerging pacific nations were given a more sustained window at the end of the season when there's no club interference or distractions about the Premiership.
 

Evil Homer

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The way rep round has worked for the last couple years has been a lot better, but it's still a very dislocated time slot for it to be played and I think most people think it would better if those emerging pacific nations were given a more sustained window at the end of the season when there's no club interference or distractions about the Premiership.
We already play internationals at the end of the season. Moving it just means we end up playing less matches and defeats the point in it being there. Another pathetic cop-out by the NRL. I know for sure that they wouldn't even consider moving SOO or City vs Country.

European soccer has four mid-season international windows as well as playing internationals after the end of the season during the summer. You people just don't get it.
 
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strong_latte

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We already play internationals at the end of the season. Moving it just means we end up playing less matches and defeats the point in it being there. Another pathetic cop-out by the NRL. I know for sure that they wouldn't even consider moving SOO or City vs Country.

European soccer has four mid-season international windows as well as playing internationals after the end of the season during the summer. You people just don't get it.

Mate, they are axing city v country when they axe rep round...

Also, whilst they have an end of season international window, it's a bit poorly organized. In an ideal world the NRL would be a month shorter and we'd do after the GF, then have a longer international season in which we had a more comprehensive Tri Nations style tournament where each team played 3 tests against eachother whilst you had concurrent developing nations tournaments in both Europe and the SH
 

Evil Homer

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Mate, they are axing city v country when they axe rep round...

Also, whilst they have an end of season international window, it's a bit poorly organized. In an ideal world the NRL would be a month shorter and we'd do after the GF, then have a longer international season in which we had a more comprehensive Tri Nations style tournament where each team played 3 tests against eachother whilst you had concurrent developing nations tournaments in both Europe and the SH
It's poorly organized because they don't care enough to organize it properly. There is plenty of time to play international matches after the season, that's a pathetic excuse. The rep round is a success, it has grown year on year, it would've continued to grow and it's being scrapped for literally no reason. So that they can do what they should've been doing all along, and because they're too f**king stupid and insular to get anything right.
 

strong_latte

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It's poorly organized because they don't care enough to organize it properly. There is plenty of time to play international matches after the season, that's a pathetic excuse. The rep round is a success, it has grown year on year, it would've continued to grow and it's being scrapped for literally no reason. So that they can do what they should've been doing all along, and because they're too f**king stupid and insular to get anything right.

It's being scrapped because plonking a major test match and then pacific tests a couple months into the NRL and before even Origin makes no sense. This stuff should be at the end of the season and I think it's being a little premature to judge the decision without knowing what they'll do instead.

I reckon the ARLC should be focussing on England really and trying to raise the profile of the game there, because it's a crying shame that a game you essentially created is so "underground" and weak there
 
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RoosTah

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The NFL is one of the biggest and most prestigious sports leagues in the world. Each individual NFL team probably has 10x the budget of the entirety of RL in the UK. And more importantly, the NFL has huge visibility and is culturally relevant. People have grown up watching American movies and TV shows and have heard of most of the NFL teams, they know the basics of American football even if they've never watched the sport. RL is not relevant. It's played almost exclusively in small industrial Northern towns where nobody really wants to be, and if you aren't from one of those places then you're unlikely to have ever even heard of the sport or know what it is because the media coverage of RL in the UK is and always has been absolutely non-existent. It's probably difficult to understand if you're from Australia but the sport really is 100% underground here. I live about an hour's drive from four Super League clubs and nobody where I live knows what RL is. They might have heard the name of the sport, but that's it. Virtually nobody would have ever seen a match or know the rules, most people don't even realize it's separate from RU. I'd say probably 95% of the population of England have either never heard of RL or have no clue what it is, and a large number of those people will just dismiss it straight away because of that.

This to me is just insane... I get that the NFL is an absolute monster that outstrips all the big Euro soccer tournaments, but it's ultimately still a very very American game that has no history in England, so it just seems very odd to me that Londoners would embrace something the Americans - a group that plenty of English think are just culturally incompatible with them from what I can tell - have sought to impose on them over a game people living in the north of their own country have made.

Again, I look at it a bit like AFL in Sydney or NRL in Melbourne - both cities were once completely foreign territory for both codes, and few people living in Sydney in the 80s would have had any clue about Australian Football, let alone any interest in supporting it. Likewise for Rugby League in Melbourne before the storm.

I suppose the obvious question is how it ever got this bad? How can League have deteriorated to the point over there that you won't hear about it an hour out of a League stronghold?

Not sure if you're a little confused BTW but there has only ever been one London club in Super League. And it's probably the worst run sporting organization I've ever seen, to the extent where if I lived in London I probably wouldn't attend their matches if you paid me to go. They really are a joke.

Reading the article, that seemed to be the criticism. Is it true it was originally set up by Fulham soccer, then run by Brisbane and then went to Union's Harlequins? Because if that's the case it's no wonder it failed so badly and you really have to wonder what the f**k the RFL were doing that they weren't more involved.

The rep round is actually a great initiative and probably the best thing the NRL have ever done for international footy, so typical that they would pull the rug from under it just as it's building and gaining a foothold.

I'm on record here as saying I don't like rep round because it just makes no sense where it is, but I do like what it does for the Islanders all the same. Given the increasing involvement the NRL is having with the PI countries though, I'd be willing to bet they have something planned to replace it. Heck, they've already announced that Fiji v Samoa test in Samoa for October this year, so it's not like they're abandoning them.
 

deluded pom?

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What do you think the response of the general public of Sydney and NSW would be if the NFL decided to target the area as an expansion possibility? After all there's little in the way of history of American Football in Australia. Didn't almost 74,000 turn out at ANZ in 1999 yet a game so ingrained into the Australian psyche on the Eastern Seaboard can't get anywhere near that for all but their major club games. Glass houses again.
 
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RoosTah

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What do you think the response of the general public of Sydney and NSW would be if the NFL decided to target the area as an expansion possibility? After all there's little in the way of history of American Football in Australia. Didn't almost 74,000 turn out at ANZ in 1999 yet a game so ingrained into the Australian psyche on the Eastern Seaboard can't get anywhere near that for all but their major club games. Glass houses again.

You'd be fair in saying this is a " people in glass houses" example if say Sydney embraced an NFL franchise but had never managed to embrace an AFL one, or Melbourne embracing the NFL but the Storm being a failure and folding.

But again, that's not what's happened here is it? The AFL and NRL both managed to have their shit together well enough that they have a presence in eachother's main cities.

How do you not get that?
 

deluded pom?

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The presence in Melbourne is down to uncle Rupert's millions. But for him rocking the boat it wouldn't exist. The AFL's expansion into strong RL territory isn't something you should be crowing about. You still didn't answer my question from post #25.
 
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RoosTah

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The presence in Melbourne is down to uncle Rupert's millions. But for him rocking the boat it wouldn't exist. The AFL's expansion into strong RL territory isn't something you should be crowing about.

Personally, I don't like the game even though my old man is a West Australian who loves it, but the AFL are bloody well run and take a long term view and that's why they have a presence. The NRL are starting to catch on and are doing the same sort of thing, and whilst "uncle Rupert" drove development in Melbourne, even before that expansion into Auckland was more coherent than anything the RFL did with London.

Again, the difference is the post Super League War NRL hasn't suffered a litany of failures in new markets like the RFL have had. I mean FFS, even your fellow countrymen on this board say the game has no profile in your country and that for 95% of Poms don't even know there's 2 types of Rugby.

Seriously, I'm not saying the NRL are perfect, but they've got their shit together a f**k-tonne better than you lot.
 

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