Matt Dufty

[muzby]

There are some large posts today on this thread.
It’s like proof reading my daughters English essays.

It’s called post-rationalisation..

It occurs when people realise that Dufty is a good fullback, and will be our fullback, despite their own drive to say that an unproven junior is our saviour & long term fullback..

The irony is indeed delicious..

 

[Maddragon99]

You both only covered a part of the problem and are not the reaching the core
I can only speak in terms of my current experience within the CRL / NSWRL at senior level and it is all down to funding and lack of volunteers to coach or help out at any club functions or duties.
Some clubs are thankful whoever is brave enough to put up their hand so you will get some lemons but someone has to do it.
To deal and appease parents these days to keep their kids in the game is a mammoth effort..a coach just does not get a chance to really coach properly with the "everyone has to be equal and a winner attitude" at some junior clubs.

The game does not have the same interest in some communities anymore and people and parents are spread thin with other sports or kids just want to "game" instead of sport.
And the amount of NRL driven admin / red tape and costs turns people away to be able to coach or just be on committees etc

The NRL channel too much money and focus on NRL. There is your big issue which has been causing a slow death of lower grades and a major problem right there.
No funding comes clubs way (little does for Juniors) from the NRL or CRL which is now is part of NSWRL
Clubs are doing it tough on the smell of an oily rag and it is hard to keep asking locals and community to put their hands in their pockets for sponsorship or buy raffle tickets every year as interests vary.
To get people to volunteer is hard enough and the kids these days (not all) but a lot of parents and players are reluctant to help as "too busy" or "too entitled"

It is not like that at every club but a lot.

Re the rules - Yes the wrestle in part has to be coached to mimic rules and NRL at (older junior) and senior levels but nowhere near the extent of the NRL as normal people are not that strong and fit and the NRL players practice that stuff as professionals.

We have coaches that go through the same drills and tackling techniques as we did back 20-40 yrs ago and some kids are just fine but some smaller kids dont adapt to the wrestle and some of their arm and pressure point pinning holds.
And there are kids playing the game that just are not suited... but we have to be all inclusive. Simple and fact.
But you are right on one point the Islander / Kiwi kids are naturally bigger than their Caucasian counterparts and that too turns parents away. But you can not have weight for age either..that too brings in other problems

But rule changes and sanitisation of the game at junior level has gone overboard and killing the game.
I think it is the QRL from this year will now have no tackling for any age group Under 12's or 13's
Wont be long for the NSWRL follow their lead

Now you know why there is limited skill and depth outside NRL and lack of genuine halves etc
Beggars belief and I sometimes ask..where is league heading and it is in part bleak just look at all the competitions dwindling, amalgamating or falling apart at the seams below NRL level
But we keep going!

This is a great topic but I think the Illawarra is better serviced than Urban Sydney clubs, a lot of ex footy players down there involved junior & local leagues.

For example Alex Melville was at one point the interim First Grade coach of Penrith under Cleary during the last World Cup. He’s now head coach of Rugby League Illawarra Sports High School.

Bigger clubs like the Thirroul Butchers are well resourced & have local veteran coaches running the show

 

[BLM01]

This is a great topic but I think the Illawarra is better serviced than Urban Sydney clubs, a lot of ex footy players down there involved junior & local leagues.

For example Alex Melville was at one point the interim First Grade coach of Penrith under Cleary during the last World Cup. He’s now head coach of Rugby League Illawarra Sports High School.

Bigger clubs like the Thirroul Butchers are well resourced & have local veteran coaches running the show

As I said it comes down to funds
You are mentioning one area and Illawarra Como which is well supported and funded
Places like St Mary’s in West Syd, Collegians snd Wests Illawarra Fien here for example are wealthy clubs backed by a licensed large club in the area
Some Clubs like Gerringong in Group 7 with Mick Cronin’s pub are community well funded but have a good culture within as their 1st
grade players don’t even get paid which is unusual
As I said some clubs are surviving just (ours are 1 of them) and some even flourishing but that is not the majority
And I can tell you that is why the Illawarra league has high gate entry fees compared to other country rugby league grounds
Eg. Warilla Gorillas crappy ground with minimal facilities at Lake Illawarra has $15 entry fee.
Most CRL clubs can only charge $8 snd $2 for kids capped by CRL and still struggle for numbers thru the gate and home clubs pay the referees out of their game day takings
It is not an even playing field.

 

[possm]

You both only covered a part of the problem and are not the reaching the core
I can only speak in terms of my current experience within the CRL / NSWRL at senior level and it is all down to funding and lack of volunteers to coach or help out at any club functions or duties.
Some clubs are thankful whoever is brave enough to put up their hand so you will get some lemons but someone has to do it.
To deal and appease parents these days to keep their kids in the game is a mammoth effort..a coach just does not get a chance to really coach properly with the "everyone has to be equal and a winner attitude" at some junior clubs.

The game does not have the same interest in some communities anymore and people and parents are spread thin with other sports or kids just want to "game" instead of sport.
And the amount of NRL driven admin / red tape and costs turns people away to be able to coach or just be on committees etc

The NRL channel too much money and focus on NRL. There is your big issue which has been causing a slow death of lower grades and a major problem right there.
No funding comes clubs way (little does for Juniors) from the NRL or CRL which is now is part of NSWRL
Clubs are doing it tough on the smell of an oily rag and it is hard to keep asking locals and community to put their hands in their pockets for sponsorship or buy raffle tickets every year as interests vary.
To get people to volunteer is hard enough and the kids these days (not all) but a lot of parents and players are reluctant to help as "too busy" or "too entitled"

It is not like that at every club but a lot.

Re the rules - Yes the wrestle in part has to be coached to mimic rules and NRL at (older junior) and senior levels but nowhere near the extent of the NRL as normal people are not that strong and fit and the NRL players practice that stuff as professionals.

We have coaches that go through the same drills and tackling techniques as we did back 20-40 yrs ago and some kids are just fine but some smaller kids dont adapt to the wrestle and some of their arm and pressure point pinning holds.
And there are kids playing the game that just are not suited... but we have to be all inclusive. Simple and fact.
But you are right on one point the Islander / Kiwi kids are naturally bigger than their Caucasian counterparts and that too turns parents away. But you can not have weight for age either..that too brings in other problems

But rule changes and sanitisation of the game at junior level has gone overboard and killing the game.
I think it is the QRL from this year will now have no tackling for any age group Under 12's or 13's
Wont be long for the NSWRL follow their lead

Now you know why there is limited skill and depth outside NRL and lack of genuine halves etc
Beggars belief and I sometimes ask..where is league heading and it is in part bleak just look at all the competitions dwindling, amalgamating or falling apart at the seams below NRL level
But we keep going!

It is only right that the NRL concentrates on the NRL competition as it's number one priority however, this should not mean that this should be done at the expense of grass roots activities.

For me it all comes down to the term 'junior development' and in my opinion there is a simple solution. If a rule was introduced to charge a club a fee for players who debut in the NRL, say 150k and that fee be funnelled through to the players last junior club then the grass roots would be fertilized and watered.

In addition to this, NRL clubs recognised by the NRL as having a large junior development program, should be paid a suitable fee for doing so and be given a waver for this 150k fee. In this way there will be a big incentive for other NRL clubs to invest in junior development even if the location is remote from their local area e.g. a country region.

 

[BLM01]

It is only right that the NRL concentrates on the NRL competition as it's number one priority however, this should not mean that this should be done at the expense of grass roots activities.

For me it all comes down to the term 'junior development' and in my opinion there is a simple solution. If a rule was introduced to charge a club a fee for players who debut in the NRL, say 150k and that fee be funnelled through to the players last junior club then the grass roots would be fertilized and watered.

In addition to this, NRL clubs recognised by the NRL as having a large junior development program, should be paid a suitable fee for doing so and be given a waver for this 150k fee. In this way there will be a big incentive for other NRL clubs to invest in junior development even if the location is remote from their local area e.g. a country region.

There is a fee ATM
it is 5k and goes to the junior club and not enough
You will never get an NRL club financially supporting local area junior clubs
they are battling to make a profit of their own funding their own admin
they will use the juniors but not financially fund it
they support it by supposedly sending players out to schools do little clinics here and there etc which is through the NRL banner anyway

Even that is not done enough they don’t get to all areas and it becomes a time thing for the players.
Put it simply money comes from the NRL who gets the big bucks from TV

 

[blacksafake]

As I said it comes down to funds
You are mentioning one area and Illawarra Como which is well supported and funded
Places like St Mary’s in West Syd, Collegians snd Wests Illawarra Fien here for example are wealthy clubs backed by a licensed large club in the area
Some Clubs like Gerringong in Group 7 with Mick Cronin’s pub are community well funded but have a good culture within as their 1st
grade players don’t even get paid which is unusual
As I said some clubs are surviving just (ours are 1 of them) and some even flourishing but that is not the majority
And I can tell you that is why the Illawarra league has high gate entry fees compared to other country rugby league grounds
Eg. Warilla Gorillas crappy ground with minimal facilities at Lake Illawarra has $15 entry fee.
Most CRL clubs can only charge $8 snd $2 for kids capped by CRL and still struggle for numbers thru the gate and home clubs pay the referees out of their game day takings
It is not an even playing field.

Shouldn’t the CRL be paying the refs.
That’s ridiculous that the home team has to pay.
I know it’s a long time ago but when I reffed in the Balmain district I got paid by the district, not by any team.

 

[possm]

There is a fee ATM
it is 5k and goes to the junior club and not enough
You will never get an NRL club financially supporting local area junior clubs
they are battling to make a profit of their own funding their own admin
they will use the juniors but not financially fund it
they support it by supposedly sending players out to schools do little clinics here and there etc which is through the NRL banner anyway

Even that is not done enough they don’t get to all areas and it becomes a time thing for the players.
Put it simply money comes from the NRL who gets the big bucks from TV

If you don't change anything than nothing changes. The NRL is a multi billion dollar business. It can arrange approval for 3rd party payments and for favourite club's players to receive marketing money. But to address your comments:

5K a player is a good start however, if the club wants the player than they can find a sponsor or develop their own junior district. Either way they will pay if they want the player.

Maybe player managers should pay part of the fee. It seems that they grab a lot of dollars out of the game and give relatively little back.

Maybe the NRL should increase the licence fee of all Clubs participating in the NRL competition and transfer those funds pro-rata to all junior clubs on an annual basis. Maybe NRL merchandise license fees can also be increased and directed towards junior clubs in the same way.

We have just come through a period of Rugby League history in Australia where it was found that there was so much waste and administrators were being paid so much cash that it was wasteful use of ARLC revenue. It is about time that priorities wwre re-set and the grass roots organisations were helped to be not just viable but successful in their endeavour to foster and build the game of rugby league at the grass roots level.

This all reminds of a day many years ago when just after presenting a budget to the Senate Estimates Committee, I was have lunch with Senator Button. During lunch I asked him why the Government gave big grants to organisations that really did not serve the community at large, and at the same time, neglected to fund organisation which did serve the community e.g. lifesaver, volunteer fire fighters and various youth organisations. Senator Button replied, you know we can rely on the community itself to fund important mainstream organisations but we also know the community will never support the less important and way out organisations.

 

[BLM01]

Shouldn’t the CRL be paying the refs.
That’s ridiculous that the home team has to pay.
I know it’s a long time ago but when I reffed in the Balmain district I got paid by the district, not by any team.

No argument from me
We are hosting a few Tigers SG Ball trials and similar aged other competition trials at our home ground for the NSWRL 5 games in total in 2 weeks
We obviously provide volunteers and services canteen and BBQ food etc for money making but gate takings go to NSWRL not us and they pay refs then.
It is a joke

 

[Maddragon99]

As I said it comes down to funds
You are mentioning one area and Illawarra Como which is well supported and funded
Places like St Mary’s in West Syd, Collegians snd Wests Illawarra Fien here for example are wealthy clubs backed by a licensed large club in the area
Some Clubs like Gerringong in Group 7 with Mick Cronin’s pub are community well funded but have a good culture within as their 1st
grade players don’t even get paid which is unusual
As I said some clubs are surviving just (ours are 1 of them) and some even flourishing but that is not the majority
And I can tell you that is why the Illawarra league has high gate entry fees compared to other country rugby league grounds
Eg. Warilla Gorillas crappy ground with minimal facilities at Lake Illawarra has $15 entry fee.
Most CRL clubs can only charge $8 snd $2 for kids capped by CRL and still struggle for numbers thru the gate and home clubs pay the referees out of their game day takings
It is not an even playing field.

Not disagreeing with you at all, all I’m saying is that that the Illawarra is better placed than many other teams who have to rely on feeder clubs. Like Cronulla & the Blue Bags. Melbourne is the obvious exception, they have a Frank Facer type ability to identify talent, Harry Grant & Ryan Papenhryan are just 2 recent examples.

At least our junior pathways system starts so early in junior development so we’re able to lock up talent so early. James Schiller comes to mind, I had no idea who he was before we signed him for 3yrs.

Also the romantic in me would like to believe that being in the Dragons system for so long would create some loyalty but I’m just being naive

 

[BLM01]

If you don't change anything than nothing changes. The NRL is a multi billion dollars business. It can arrange approval for 3rd party payments and for favourite club's players to receive marketing money. But to address your comments:

5K a player is a good start however, if the club wants the player than they can find a sponsor or develop their own junior district. Either way they will pay if they want the player.

Maybe player managers should pay part of the fee. It seems that they grab a lot of dollars out of the game and give relatively little back.

Maybe the NRL should increase the licence fee of all Clubs participating in the NRL competition and transfer those funds pro-rata to all junior clubs on an annual basis. Maybe NRL merchandise license fees can also be increased and directed towards junior clubs in the same way.

We have just come through a period of Rugby League history in Australia where it was found that there was so much waste and administrators were being paid so much cash that it was wasteful use of ARLC revenue. It is about time that priorities wwre re-set and the grass roots organisations were helped to be not just viable but successful in their endeavour to foster and build the game of rugby league at the grass roots level.

This all reminds of a day many years ago when just after presenting a budget to the Senate Estimates Committee, I was have lunch with Senator Button. During lunch I asked him why the Government gave big grants to organisations that really did not serve the community at large, and at the same time, neglected to fund organisation which did serve the community e.g. lifesaver, volunteer fire fighters and various youth organisations. Senator Button replied, you know we can rely on the community itself to fund important mainstream organisations but we also know the community will never support the less important and way out organisations.

A NRL Club system does not pay or ever will to take a player away from the junior or senior club
They only pay if that player makes a first grade NRL debut which is not many.
Some of our best are taken away at age 13, 14 and 15 some older and we may never see or hear of them again if they don’t make it.
The junior or grass roots club have no control of that.

Don’t start me on player manages I have dealt with a few in the past and some of those player manages are parents who only see $$ signs.

I know our club will never stand in the way if any junior or senior of striving for higher honours or making an attempt for a career in the game even if it weakens our own teans snd or we think they are not ready.
We always put the the players wishes first

I just wish player managers and NRL clubs would do the same when kids ate selected or offered incentives to get into their pathways systems.

 

[Maddragon99]

It’s called post-rationalisation..

It occurs when people realise that Dufty is a good fullback, and will be our fullback, despite their own drive to say that an unproven junior is our saviour & long term fullback..

The irony is indeed delicious..

Or perhaps it’s just Self Delusion on your part?

I’m the President of the Ramsey Fanboy Club & I make no apologies for that but even I have to admit Dufty will be the fullback come round 1.

1 Dufty
2 Ramsey
3 Maximus
4 Lomax
5 Ravalawa
6 Norman
7 Hunt

The No.1 jersey is Dufty’s to keep or lose depending on form & performance. Equally the No.6 jersey is Norman’s to keep or lose.

Our opinions diverge because I acknowledge Dufty has been in & around the first grade team since 2017 (67 games) & I think he’s already played as well as he can. As you correctly point out Ramsey has only played a handful of first grade games so we’ve only scratched the surface of his potential.

The other issue you ignore is by dropping Dufty it would allow Maximus & Mat to play together on the left with Lomax & Rav carving it up on the right. I don’t think there’d be any supporters who wouldn’t salivate over that?

Round 7 ANZAC Day
1 Ramsey
2 Mat
3 Maximus
4 Lomax
5 Ravalawa
6 Sullivan
7 Hunt

I’ve saved this post & I’ll be sure to remind you of it once I’ve been proven correct.

 

[possm]

A NRL Club system does not pay or ever will to take a player away from the junior or senior club
They only pay if that player makes a first grade NRL debut which is not many.
Some of our best are taken away at age 13, 14 and 15 some older and we may never see or hear of them again if they don’t make it.
The junior or grass roots club have no control of that.

Don’t start me on player manages I have dealt with a few in the past and some of those player manages are parents who only see $$ signs.

I know our club will never stand in the way if any junior or senior of striving for higher honours or making an attempt for a career in the game even if it weakens our own teans snd or we think they are not ready.
We always put the the players wishes first

I just wish player managers and NRL clubs would do the same when kids ate selected or offered incentives to get into their pathways systems.

What can I say? Are you looking to complain or to find solutions? Nothing will change until solutions are found that address the problem.

My idea is to raise revenue by:
Increasing NRL club licence fees. - 100k per club p/a
Increasing Player Manager licence fees. - 10k per manager p/a
Directing a portion of the TV rights funding.- 10%
Arranging junior rugby league sponsorship. 100k p/a
Obtain a Fed Gvt Grant for 100k p/a
Obtain State Govt grant for 100k p/a

This would be a good start. Does anyone else have suggetions that might raise more funds for junior rugby league?

 

[Como Connection]

Or perhaps it’s just Self Delusion on your part?

I’m the President of the Ramsey Fanboy Club & I make no apologies for that but even I have to admit Dufty will be the fullback come round 1.

1 Dufty
2 Ramsey
3 Maximus
4 Lomax
5 Ravalawa
6 Norman
7 Hunt

The No.1 jersey is Dufty’s to keep or lose depending on form & performance. Equally the No.6 jersey is Norman’s to keep or lose.

Our opinions diverge because I acknowledge Dufty has been in & around the first grade team since 2017 (67 games) & I think he’s already played as well as he can. As you correctly point out Ramsey has only played a handful of first grade games so we’ve only scratched the surface of his potential.

The other issue you ignore is by dropping Dufty it would allow Maximus & Mat to play together on the left with Lomax & Rav carving it up on the right. I don’t think there’d be any supporters who wouldn’t salivate over that?

Round 7 ANZAC Day
1 Ramsey
2 Mat
3 Maximus
4 Lomax
5 Ravalawa
6 Sullivan
7 Hunt

I’ve saved this post & I’ll be sure to remind you of it once I’ve been proven correct.

Dufty will keep his spot as far as I'm concerned.
CC

 

[Crush]

Or perhaps it’s just Self Delusion on your part?

I’m the President of the Ramsey Fanboy Club & I make no apologies for that but even I have to admit Dufty will be the fullback come round 1.

1 Dufty
2 Ramsey
3 Maximus
4 Lomax
5 Ravalawa
6 Norman
7 Hunt

The No.1 jersey is Dufty’s to keep or lose depending on form & performance. Equally the No.6 jersey is Norman’s to keep or lose.

Our opinions diverge because I acknowledge Dufty has been in & around the first grade team since 2017 (67 games) & I think he’s already played as well as he can. As you correctly point out Ramsey has only played a handful of first grade games so we’ve only scratched the surface of his potential.

The other issue you ignore is by dropping Dufty it would allow Maximus & Mat to play together on the left with Lomax & Rav carving it up on the right. I don’t think there’d be any supporters who wouldn’t salivate over that?

Round 7 ANZAC Day
1 Ramsey
2 Mat
3 Maximus
4 Lomax
5 Ravalawa
6 Sullivan
7 Hunt

I’ve saved this post & I’ll be sure to remind you of it once I’ve been proven correct.

Jack Bird at 3.

 

[Maddragon99]

Dufty will keep his spot as far as I'm concerned.
CC

Ok great, so what’s your plan for Mat Feagai who’s ready to debut this year?

We’ve been through this scenario before in 2009, J Moz was squeezed out which led to B Moz leaving for Canterbury because they wanted to play together. Fast forward 12yrs & they are both still playing at a rep or close to rep standard for a top 4 team.

You might be ok living that nightmare again but I’m not.

 

[Maddragon99]

Jack Bird at 3.

Typographical error; Jack Bird 13

 

[kit66]

Ok great, so what’s your plan for Mat Feagai who’s ready to debut this year?

We’ve been through this scenario before in 2009, J Moz was squeezed out which led to B Moz leaving for Canterbury because they wanted to play together. Fast forward 12yrs & they are both still playing at a rep or close to rep standard for a top 4 team.

You might be ok living that nightmare again but I’m not.

The youngn's will get their shot eventually as usual but you're saying you want 3 rookies ( with a total of 2 games experience ) defending together on one side in the early rounds, aint gonna happen. We'll likely see one of the brothers fairly soon - I think Matts the better of the two ( ? ) - if Bird isn't in the centres from round 1 ( which I'm pretty sure he will be ). Hopefully though Ramsey gets a start on the wing and makes good, that'd be a good start, bring the Feagai's through this year but gradually.

 

[Como Connection]

Ok great, so what’s your plan for Mat Feagai who’s ready to debut this year?

We’ve been through this scenario before in 2009, J Moz was squeezed out which led to B Moz leaving for Canterbury because they wanted to play together. Fast forward 12yrs & they are both still playing at a rep or close to rep standard for a top 4 team.

You might be ok living that nightmare again but I’m not.

Haven't got a plan for Mat.
Dufty deserves the spot until his form drops sufficiently to be replaced, which I hope doesn't happen.
Yes I'm a Dufty fan.
CC

 

[Maddragon99]

Haven't got a plan for Mat.
Dufty deserves the spot until his form drops sufficiently to be replaced, which I hope doesn't happen.
Yes I'm a Dufty fan.
CC

100% agree, Dufty will get the start round one no argument there. But the pressure for results will dictate changes in the team. It’s a different era now, different coaches & a different selection process. Hook only has two years, no time to wait & see what happens.

 

[Maddragon99]

The youngn's will get their shot eventually as usual but you're saying you want 3 rookies ( with a total of 2 games experience ) defending together on one side in the early rounds, aint gonna happen. We'll likely see one of the brothers fairly soon - I think Matts the better of the two ( ? ) - if Bird isn't in the centres from round 1 ( which I'm pretty sure he will be ). Hopefully though Ramsey gets a start on the wing and makes good, that'd be a good start, bring the Feagai's through this year but gradually.

Mate we finished 12th & 15th the past two seasons partly due to McGuber’s pick & stick mentality & his reluctance to bring in young talent. We scored a total of 5 tries on the left in 20 games in 2020 yet week in & week out McGuber continued to pick Aitken & JP.

FFS Why are people so afraid of change? If the Feagai’s are good enough then they are old enough. Lomax debuted at 18 & that worked pretty well.

As for Bird he’ll start off the bench & then play Lock were he’s needed.