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Matthew Johns, the Media Rape Libel and the War Against Sport - Letter to Gus

robertmorris

Juniors
Messages
49
This was originally a letter written to Phil Gould on defending Matthew Johns and the rape libel against professional athletes, particularly Rugby League players, made by the media and radical feminists. It is quite long so I give a summary (Cliffs)


- Matthew may have made a mistake by not vigorously defending himself.

- For the media, and the public mind, the biggest issue is whether there was consent, not the morality of consensual group sex.

- Matthew's future and reputation depend on what opinion the general public form over the coming days and weeks on whether there was consent or not.

- There exists a rape libel in the media, and in the imaginations of some of the public, that football players are habitual rapists.

- All professional athletes are subject to the same rape libel and insinuations by the media, regardless of the facts, the veracity of accusations or the amount or lack of evidence.

- When legitimate figures within a sport voice concern over the moral and professional issues over indiscretions, the media and radical feminists take that as an admission of far more serious criminality of habitual rape.

- The rape libel must be challenged and disproven with evidence and facts. Courts should decide criminality.

- Radical feminists and cultural studies theorists will always find men and football players guilty as oppressors as women, with them it will always be lose-lose. Their views must always be challenged and never legitimised, like the NRL has done with Catherine Lumby.

- Rugby League and sport in Australia needs to be aware of the 2006 Duke Lacrosse case in the United States, where innocent athletes were pillared by the media and prosecutors for over a year as racist gang rapists before finally being completely exonerated.

- To win the argument with players that they should have higher standards of behaviour, it should be demonstrated how much of their pay comes from entertaining children, and they should therefore have the incentive to privately behave to the standard expected from children's entertainers. Would it be ok if the Wiggles did it?



To Phil Gould,


Over the past week and a half I have watched the Matthew Johns scandal as a deeply concerned fan of Matthew and the game. I have been deeply angry, frustrated and disillusioned with how events have unfolded. Rugby League, his teammates, and the Media have abandoned and crucified Matthew. I waited for a somebody, a real man and mate, to step up, brave the tide bearing down on him, and publicly defend Matthew and the truth.


You are the only one who has substantively done this, the only one to put their reputation on the line for the sake of friendship to vigorously defend Matthew, his innocence and his reputation. But it seems it is only one man against the entire world, or at least the entire media and the NRL, and it seems that Matthew is losing the public battle for his reputation, his career and his future.


I can't sit back and see this man publicly destroyed without a shred of justice. It's not right if it were n ordinary man who was the victim and it is not right as a fan and follower of Matthew's sporting and entertainment career, to sit back and do nothing. I am deeply concerned for Matthew's future and wellbeing, and I feel I need to communicate with you, Matthew's friend and public advocate, what I feel are the issues that Matthew's camp may have overlooked or underestimated.




Matthew's Response


I fear that Matthew Johns may have done himself a disservice, or at least played an enormous gamble with his career and reputation, by not vigorously defending himself or providing a full and complete account of the evening and of the actions and the character of 'Clare'.


I can understand the concern that a vigorous defense and full account of the evening from Matthew may have resulted in an attempt at self-harm or suicide from 'Clare', and that placing her welfare above all else was the moral thing to do. But the cost of this may be the sacrifice of Matthew Johns career and reputation from which be can never recover.


A person who has the capacity to lie egregiously in the past, can and will lie egregiously in the present and future, particularly when they have an admitted motive of vindictive malice. The ABC report did not seriously investigate the veracity of 'Clares' claims, and I would be cautious in accepting the veracity of the reported claims of her past attempts at self-harm. Questionable pretences of the threat to her welfare are a weak basis for Matthew to sacrifice his reputation and career.


The problem with not offering a vigorous defense and full account of the evening is that you allow 'Clare' and the media to tell their story unchallenged, that after time, becomes the accepted fact. You and many people may understand the situation as a mentally unstable woman, who feeling aggrieved or ashamed about a sexual encounter after the fact, and perhaps out of malice, remembers it as rape. The problem is the media do not see or portray it that way. The substance of the story is not Matthew Johns infidelity or the morality of consensual group sex, it is that Matthew Johns and his Cronulla teammates gangraped a woman. And without challenge from Matthew Johns, or the other participants, it is the gangrape narrative that will capture the public imagination and become the accepted wisdom of the evening, and Matthew's character.


The disconnect was there to be seen on the Footy Show last Thursday. Yourself, Andrew Voss, and the rest of the panel were in general agreement that the problem was that group sex was that always be perceived as immoral and carry the risk of a later false rape accusation from the consenting participants. Even if there was a green light, consent from the woman, it was not ok to go through with it because it carries the strong risk that it will come back to bite the player on the arse.


However this was not the main concern of Jacquelin Magnay. She did not share the assumption that there was a green light from 'Clare', or a green light for the sexual encounters, group or otherwise,of other football players and woman generally. For her the issue was consent, 'Clare' did not give it, Matthew Johns and the Cronulla players did not have it, and that 'Clare' was gangraped.


This is the disconnect, unless Matthew Johns vigorously defends himself, provides a full account of the evening, and of the actions and character of 'Clare', then the media and public at large does not share the assumption that the acts that evening were consensual, and that without consent, the group sex of the evening, becomes gangrape. Unless Matthew's case is vigorously presented, then 'Clare' and the medias narrative will dominate air and print space, and ultimately win out.


You can not assume that people will simply agree with Matthew's innocence, that without persuasion they will accept that they are watching a rerun of Glenn Close in 'Fatal Attraction, when 'Clare' and the medias narrative, and the public temptation, is to see the evening as Jodie Foster in 'The Accused'.


You can't overlook consent as the most important issue for Matthew Johns career and reputation. With consent, he is guilty of infidelity and, what some will consider, a sexual immorality, both fodder for gossip magazines and a short media scandal. Without consent, Matthew Johns is a rapist, guilty, in the public and media mind, of a crime so reviled and considered second only to murder, of which perpetrators are sentenced to fifty five years in super maximum security prisons as the most despised members of society. If Matthew Johns reputation over the coming weeks is established as one of a rapist, and 'Clares' narrative of the evening, as gangrape without consent, goes without vigorous challenge, then Matthew's career is forever over.


It must be established in the media and public mind beyond reasonable doubt that the group sex that evening was consensual, that Matthew Johns is not a rapist, and to utter a suggestion otherwise is to be held in contempt as the slander and slur that it is. It would be right and honourable if the other participants come forward and offer the vigorous defense that Matthew did not, but ultimately his reputation will live or die on what actions he takes to defend himself now in the coming days and weeks.




The media libel on professional athletes as habitual rapists


The other great problem with this disconnect is that when you and others, quite rightly, address the problems that consensual group sex presents to football players, morally and to their reputations and careers, it is seen through the very different prism as a confession that the real problem is that footballers regularly, and without consent, gangrape woman. It is the same with Matthew's apology, certainly the moral and manly thing to do, but what is it an apology for? A confession that Matthew did not have consent and did in fact rape 'Clare'? The moral and professional issues you raise, and that constituted Matthew's apology are confused, deliberately by the media, with the issues of criminality; rape, sexual and indecent assault.


When the media reports on a sporting scandal, and legitimate voices within the sport voice their legitimate concerns about the moral and professional problems with a players actions, it is construed and accepted as a confession of far more serious crimes that are hated and reviled by the general public. Every single story about the scandal thus far has held out the possibility that the real issue is rape, that every comment on the issue, is a comment on the rape and gangrape of women by footballers. Just because a person, a footballer, commits some kind of moral or professional wrong, does not mean they should be thrown to the dogs as criminal guilty of the worst crime second only to murder. It is a slur and a libel that permeates all media, and most public discussion, of any sporting scandal involving sex, the libel that football players are habitual rapists.




Letting Radical Feminism and Feminist Cultural Studies Go Unchallenged


This is why I think there is great danger in legitimizing feminist cultural studies spokespeople like Catherine Lumby as NRL officials, or accepting without challenge like minded radical feminist views presented in the media. Feminist social theory always holds men guilty as oppressors of women, no matter the individual actions or culpability of individual men. Football players, men at the height of masculinity, will always be guilty of social crimes in the eyes of feminists, and no matter their actions, the consent of their female partners, they will always be oppressors and degradators of women.


There is no winning option with radical feminism, it is lose-lose. It does not matter if there was consent and the woman was a willing participant, it does not matter if no crime was committed, it does not matter if the immorality or unprofessionalism was minor or transient, it does not matter if the accusation has no veracity, or is just hearsay or rumor, the man is guilty. Nothing Rugby League can do will appease radical feminists, they will always be agents of male patriarchy and domination. Feminist Cultural Studies places no value on the virtues of sport and athleticism, it sees only wrongs.


It is foolish to ask them to be our games moral judges because the game will never live up to their standard. And it is a standard so far removed from that of the public and woman generally. The fans will always be the ultimate judges, and they will judge with their feet and wallets, on footballers morality. Courts will always be the judges on criminality.


The danger is, that the radical voice becomes the official ombudsmen of Rugby League, as Catherine Lumby seems to have become, or when unchallenged in the public arena, the radical feminist theory of men and footballers as the enemy of women and habitual rapists, becomes legitimate and captures the public mind.




The Rape Libel and the Duke Lacrosse Case


The rape libel, that footballers, and male athletes generally, are habitual rapists, was best exposed in the 2006 Duke Lacrosse Case in the United States. If you haven't read up on the situation, please do, it is the text book case of every sporting rape scandal, and is a portent of where we in Australia are heading or have arrived at.


A young black woman, Crystal Magnum, along with a colleague, were hired as strippers for a team party. No sexual acts occurred at all. The woman later accused the Lacrosse players of gang rape, and police and prosecutors aggressively pressed charges. For over a year the boys, all white, were held up as the worst kind of racist rapists across the entire national media, they had wanted posters plastered around their university, 88 professors authored an article that condemned the male sporting culture of the team as one that was inherently conducive to rape.


This was all in spite of the fact that the players were perfectly innocent, had committed no wrongdoing and no crime what so ever. They had been the victims of a mental unstable, but malicious, fantasist. Her statements to police changed completely many times, the number of supposed rapists was changed multiple times, she could not consistently identify the same players as rapists, despite being given only the lacrosse team photos to choose from, no DNA sample matching any of the players could be found, though the DNA of two other males from a subsequent consensual sexual encounter were, etc... the litany of procedural misconduct and weakness of the case go on and on. Eventually the case was dropped, the boys exonerated, and the prosecutor disbarred, charged and found guilty of professional misconduct.


None of this stopped the media, radical feminists, and the public at large from destroying these athletes lives, careers and reputations as vile gangrapists. The facts did not matter, only the profile, that athletes are habitual rapists, no matter the veracity of the accusation. The same thing happens in Australia with 'Clare', almost nobody in the media has bothered to investigate or establish the veracity of her story, certainly not the ABC before airing her slander. Nobody seems interested in publicly asking the question, is an innocent man being maliciously defamed? Should the veracity of a mentally unstable person be held up to scrutiny before another's life and career are destroyed? Whilst media and public alike seem to be very keen on insinuating and presenting the libel that footballers are gang rapists, no matter the facts. Again when the media fails, when his teammates fail him, only Matthew, and perhaps his close friends like yourself, can defend him, air the truth, and defeat the libel.




Letting False Accusations Fly, Hurts Real Victims of Sexual Assault


The rape libel has become part and parcel of Rugby League reporting, it is very close to becoming received wisdom. The same rape libel was certainly behind the Bulldogs 2003 Coff's Harbour affair, and like there, the veracity of the accusation does not matter, only the libel, the myth, that athletes regularly gang rape women. A similar violence libel was levelled against Mark McGaw.


It's no longer enough to stay quite, pretend the slur does not exist, and wish it go away. It's not enough for the victims of malicious lies to stay quite for fear of drawing attention upon themselves of aggravating radical feminist groups. Not only is the reputation of Rugby League, the players and all sport on the line, but it is fundamentally immoral and unjust, not only for the victims of false and malicious accusations, but for the real victims of rape and sexual assault.


On the Footy show last Thursday you made the good point of how wrong it is that the victim of Dane Tilse's actions in Bathurst did not feel comfortable coming forward to police. This is a concerning issue, for Rugby League and society, and deeply unjust. There are many issues to be addressed with that situation, the one relevant to Matthew Johns and the rape libel against football players, is that false accusations of rape and assault, discredit legitimate victims.


When the media and the public ignore the veracity and merits of individual accusations, and by the rape libel, automatically treat false accusations the same as true accusations, it has the effect of making all rape accusations illegitimate: In the mind of the victim who must decide whether she wants to go ahead with a trial, in the minds of police and the criminal justice system who become skeptical to claims of rape, and to the general public who, once burnt, may become hostile to real victims.


This is the other, and perhaps the greater victim of the rape libel against football players, real victims of sexual assault. Does 'Clare' now become the public face of rape? I could not imagine a greater disservice to justice. Pru Goward, a real feminist and a real advocate for the rights of women, and a much better feminist ombudsmen of the NRL than Catherine Lumby could ever be, is very apt is seeing through the rape libel. She has been strongly advocating that women who are victims of sexual assault, or make accusations that they have been, must go to the police and to the courts, to have justice served upon the perpetrators of the crime, and to have the veracity of their accusation tested in the only proper way, before the courts, so that the innocent victims of false accusations may be exonerated, should a prima facie case even exist. This must be the public position strongly advocated by Rugby League, and people like Pru Goward should be the face and mother of Rugby League feminism, not culture studies theorists like Lumby.




Defending Rugby League, Sport and Matthew Johns Against the Rape Libel


Rugby League, and sport generally, is under attack from the rape libel, Matthew Johns is the latest victim. You have been the only public figure to substantively come forward and defend him and the game, whist also giving an honest account of his and the games shortcomings. The 88 professors statement from the Duke Lacrosse Case offers the logic of the rape libel and the dirty tactics that the cultural enemies of sport employ and athletes fall victim to. No matter what Rugby League does, no matter how much we get our own house in order, they will always attack, they will always libel, and they will always unjustly slur, attack and destroy sporting figures.


But if Rugby League, and now Matthew Johns, defend themselves vigorously from the rape libel, discredit it as untrue, unjust, devoid of merit and exposed for lack of veracity, then the game can also be honest with its shortcomings, not be slandered with falsehood, and be all the stronger for it. Rugby League, with the NRL or not, fans and public figures alike, must wage that political and public relations campaign, and it begins with exposing the slurs, exposing the libel and exonerating Matthew Johns.




Professional Athletes Should Think of Themselves as Children's Entertainers


Whilst Rugby League, and Matthew Johns, must defend themselves from the rape libel and false accusations of crime, the moral and professional misconduct of players is still concerning and a detriment to the game. Whilst they do not deserve to be vilified by the rape libel, the media will do so anyway, and the player still loses regardless of his innocence when his career and reputation have been destroyed. Your traffic light analogy, that the light may be green, a player may be otherwise justified in engaging in consensual group sex, but that it is morally and professional wrong for him and his career, is apt. As the SMH interview with an anonymous NRL player who resented the intrusion into the private lives of players showed, it is more than an issue of education, it is an argument that needs to be made and won with players.


In most other walks of life, or even an amateur football player, there is not a strong argument, beyond suggesting that the act itself may be immoral, as to why consenting adults should not engage in group sex. Most people would generally accept that what consenting adults do in the privacy of their own bedrooms is a matter only for them. An analogy would be to replace group sex with homosexuality. Some may find homosexuality to be immoral, but very few would think it proper to interfere or to deny somebody the right to privately engage in the act. Group sex is obviously enjoyable, and there are many woman find it enjoyable and want to participate, so what right does the NRL have to make rules as to what a player does in the bedroom?


I suggest that the way to make and win that argument, is to look at what pays a rugby league players wage. How much of the revenue of the NRL and the clubs comes directly and indirectly from children. If the percentage is say 15% and 40% respectively, then take that percentage of your wage; that is how much money you are earning as a children's entertainer. Why as a professional Rugby League player do you get paid so much money and not beers or a few hundred bucks a win at a park? In large part it is because you are a children's entertainer, you entertain hundreds and thousands if not millions of children every weekend and season, and they, there parents, pay a large portion of you salary. Children's entertainers have a particular reputation to uphold. A moral guide for football payers should be: What would the Wiggles do? What would people and the media say if one of the Wiggles did this? Would it be ok if the Wiggles did it?


Take the percentage figure a player earns as a children's entertainer, and explain and establish the thought process that this is what I get paid to entertain children, and this is what I get paid to live my private life to the standards and reputation of a children's entertainer. If I get paid $100,000 and 40% comes directly and indirectly from children, then that $40,000 is the pay of I get for turning down that girl at the bar, $40,000 for not having one more beer and turning in for the night. That is the personal interest, the direct pay off, for foregoing some of what you would otherwise be free to do. I would suggest that by putting a personal dollar figure, on the payment a player receives for being a children's entertainer, and not engaging in moral or professional conduct that would threaten that, by emphasising the financial reward rather than the punishment of fines and termination, it may be effective in winning the argument with players, when other arguments fail.


_ _ _




Thanks for stepping up for your mate and a man many Australians are great fans of. I wish all the best for Matthew and hope he gets his career back on track as soon as possible. Please keep being his public advocate and if need be carry him through this. Please keep on using you public position to do your best for the game.


Kind Regards,
A fan of the game






P.S.


The Group of 88 Professors Statement on the Duke Lacrosse Case


Link:
http://johnsville.blogspot.com/2006/11/duke-case-listening-statement.html




Until Proven Innocent: Political Correctness and the Shameful Injustices of the Duke Lacrosse Rape Case.

By Stuart Taylor Jr and KC Johnson



A book, which should be required reading for all journalists, sports and otherwise, on the topic.


Book Link:
http://www.amazon.com/Until-Proven-Innocent-Correctness-Injustices/dp/0312384866/ref=ed_oe_p
 

ibeme

First Grade
Messages
6,904
That's quite a thorough examination into the situation. Of course, the crusaders will describe it as being too simplistic.
 

bartman

Immortal
Messages
41,022
- To win the argument with players that they should have higher standards of behaviour, it should be demonstrated how much of their pay comes from entertaining children, and they should therefore have the incentive to privately behave to the standard expected from children's entertainers. Would it be ok if the Wiggles did it?
That's a fair and sensible point. The vast majority of fans would have come to the game as children (<18yo) and introduced through families, I suspect.

However I fear that point about behaviour needing to be equivalent to children's entertainers etc will be lost on many people here that instead want to demonise women and the media, before coming to accept that players have to adjust their idea of what is acceptable or not for the sake of the game.
 

Frenzy.

Post Whore
Messages
50,675
Looks like gobbledegook to me.

Just another opinion disguised as pseudo intellectualism.

I'll summarise the whole post

The writer thinks Johns is innocent. The writer hasn't provided anything to refute "Clare's" claims. That's all. Didn't need all the waffle.

You can call me "Splinters" about the whole thing. I wasn't there. I can't make an informed opinion. I'll readily throw up questions against popular opinion in order to try and cut through the chaff. Not here, but I have in the Sharks forum.

AFAIC all I read is lies from both sides, muckraking from all quarters, punch and counter punch but very little by way of fact.
 

ibeme

First Grade
Messages
6,904
That's a fair and sensible point. The vast majority of fans would have come to the game as children (<18yo) and introduced through families, I suspect.

However I fear that point about behaviour needing to be equivalent to children's entertainers etc will be lost on many people here that instead want to demonise women and the media, before coming to accept that players have to adjust their idea of what is acceptable or not for the sake of the game.

I understand the sentiment of the proposal, but the fact that they both entertain kids is where the parallels end in my opinion. The Wiggles performance doesn't involve the risk taking and physical aggression that is required to play a game of first grade Rugby League. Wiggles don't go on stage and bash each other from pillar to post. The psychological profile of a Rugby League player and a Wiggle couldn't be further apart. Rugby League would have died even before it began if that wasn't the case. So to ask a Rugby League player to uphold the same off-field standards of a Wiggle is unrealistic

Asking them to pull their heads in and reminding them to remember what they wanted to see in their football heroes as kids is about as close as we can realistically get.
 

robertmorris

Juniors
Messages
49
You can call me "Splinters" about the whole thing. I wasn't there. I can't make an informed opinion. I'll readily throw up questions against popular opinion in order to try and cut through the chaff. Not here, but I have in the Sharks forum.

AFAIC all I read is lies from both sides, muckraking from all quarters, punch and counter punch but very little by way of fact.

The police and the NZ equivalent of the DPP did make an informed opinion at the time. They maintain the same informed opinion today.


I am not of the opinion that the common law system that we share with NZ is fundamentally flawed. The courts are the fundamental arbitrators of truth and justice, it is they who will test the veracity of you evidence. If a prima facie case does not even exist, then the courts do not have to go through the motions of dismissing your case. This is what happened to 'Clare'.


If you feel the criminal justice system has failed you, you launch a civil suit, where you can be successful at a much lower standard, the balance of probabilities, rather than beyond reasonable doubt. This is what the rape victims of Aboriginal leader Geoff Clark did and won. 'Clare' has not done so.


In the court of public opinion we can test the veracity of each parties evidence. I would suggest that after police have not found your evidence credible seven years ago, having evidence that you did not form the opinion for five days that you had been raped (with that evidence coming from a source willing to be named on the public record), failing to launch civil action for all that time, hiding behind a blurred screen and a voice anonymizor instead of on a witness box, and having all your evidence contradicted by every other witness, who have maintained the same evidence from day one, would be well and truly enough to not find Matthew Johns guilty by any standard, certainly not one beyond a reasonable doubt, nor on the balance of probabilities.


I suggest you heed Pru Goward's call that sexual assault victims take their allegations to the police and to the courts, so that the guilty may be punished, their claims may be examined, and the innocent exonerated, rather than forever slurred.


Ask yourself, where would you have been during the Duke Lacrosse case? What intellectual defence do you have for the victims of false accusations or for the basic questioning of the veracity of those who make them?
 

robertmorris

Juniors
Messages
49
I understand the sentiment of the proposal, but the fact that they both entertain kids is where the parallels end in my opinion. The Wiggles performance doesn't involve the risk taking and physical aggression that is required to play a game of first grade Rugby League. Wiggles don't go on stage and bash each other from pillar to post. The psychological profile of a Rugby League player and a Wiggle couldn't be further apart. Rugby League would have died even before it began if that wasn't the case. So to ask a Rugby League player to uphold the same off-field standards of a Wiggle is unrealistic

Asking them to pull their heads in and reminding them to remember what they wanted to see in their football heroes as kids is about as close as we can realistically get.

I would admit that the Wiggles analogy has limitations, I would argue that it is far more appropriate that you suggest.


It is not so much a moral argument, that as children's entertainers, they owe something to children. It is a professional argument, that because they get paid to be children entertainers, there is an expectation that they publicly and privately behave to the professional standard of children's entertainers.


I understand that this has not been the past of Rugby League, nor is it non-professional Rugby League. I would argue that it is the evolution of the professionalism of the game that begun when Rugby Union players broke away to form a game where players get paid. Today players get paid in large part to be children's entertainers. The media holds them to that, or a similar, standard. Almost everybody has a camera phone and/or a desire to leak information to the press or public.


The test of the analogy, and its limitations is to run through some scenarios. It would not be ok for the Wiggles to engage in group sex, nor increasingly Rugby League players. It would not be ok for the Wiggles to get publicly drunk or to take illegal drugs, nor a Rugby League player. One area where the analogy does not carry would be the controversy with the female Hi-5 singer posed for Ralph, but perhaps it was because she was female.


The thought behind the analogy is that it may better enter into a players thought process and provide a better incentive rather than just threats and fines. They undoubtedly earn much of their wage as children's entertainers, and we all expect a higher standard of public and private behaviour from those who entertain children. It is that standard that the media, and increasingly the sponsors and public, expect from professional NRL players.


I would argue that a test in a players head of: Would it be ok if the Wiggles did it?, would get them through many of the situations that they have been unsure of and have later gotten into trouble for. Especially when backed up with the fact that so much of their wage comes from entertaining children, giving them the monetary compensation and incentive to give up what they would otherwise be entitled to do.
 

bluesbreaker

Bench
Messages
4,195
See Frenzy, now you can be all 'intellectual' and point out where robertmorris is wrong?

Should be easy, I gather you're a lawyer, afterall?
 

deluded pom?

Coach
Messages
10,897
The most relevant sentence to me in the original post is the one about Johns being left to face all of this alone. There were eleven other Sharks players in the room and only Johns and Firman have been named (from what I have read). I haven't seen a link to a quote from Firman one way or the other and as far as I know none of the others have come forward and spoken up to defend Johns. Great mates who can take part in the incident and then sit back and watch as one of your team mates fry in the glare of the media spotlight. I just hope Johns remembers who his "friends" are.
 

robertmorris

Juniors
Messages
49
The most relevant sentence to me in the original post is the one about Johns being left to face all of this alone. There were eleven other Sharks players in the room and only Johns and Firman have been named (from what I have read). I haven't seen a link to a quote from Firman one way or the other and as far as I know none of the others have come forward and spoken up to defend Johns. Great mates who can take part in the incident and then sit back and watch as one of your team mates fry in the glare of the media spotlight. I just hope Johns remembers who his "friends" are.

Hear, hear.

It is gutless of them all. They need to give their evidence again, this time in public.

But not even Matty has given a full and complete public account yet, which I think he needs to do to clear his name, especially when his team mates have abandoned him.

Firman is the one we know of, if there is a way of contacting him then people should. To persuade him of the morality of telling the truth, for your teammates, no matter how much you put your head on the medias chopping block, he needs you now, and you owe it to him as a friend.

I think they are very scared of becoming the next target of a vindicitve media that will ignore the truth and facts and slam them regardless of what they say. I also think they are scared that if they tell the truth, it will prompt 'Clare' into commiting self-harm, and they will be blamed, or feel responsible, for it.
 

ramble_on

Juniors
Messages
2,255
The most relevant sentence to me in the original post is the one about Johns being left to face all of this alone. There were eleven other Sharks players in the room and only Johns and Firman have been named (from what I have read). I haven't seen a link to a quote from Firman one way or the other and as far as I know none of the others have come forward and spoken up to defend Johns. Great mates who can take part in the incident and then sit back and watch as one of your team mates fry in the glare of the media spotlight. I just hope Johns remembers who his "friends" are.

You see deluded pom, there is no reason whatsoever that the others involved need to come forward... there is no reason that Johns should be in this position in the first place.... NO CRIME WAS COMMITTED... would you be compelled to explain to me what position you and your partner last did it in (presuming you have one.. or two) just because I was compelled to know..?? Of course not... neither would these morally superior bible-bashers, or whatever the f**k diety they believe thay are, do it either.... So why would they demand to know what went on in that bedroom? Perhaps they have some little personality traits that they like to cover with moralistic superiority as a shield......
 

deluded pom?

Coach
Messages
10,897
Hear, hear.

It is gutless of them all. They need to give their evidence again, this time in public.

But not even Matty has given a full and complete public account yet, which I think he needs to do to clear his name, especially when his team mates have abandoned him.

Firman is the one we know of, if there is a way of contacting him then people should. To persuade him of the morality of telling the truth, for your teammates, no matter how much you put your head on the medias chopping block, he needs you now, and you owe it to him as a friend.

I think they are very scared of becoming the next target of a vindicitve media that will ignore the truth and facts and slam them regardless of what they say. I also think they are scared that if they tell the truth, it will prompt 'Clare' into commiting self-harm, and they will be blamed, or feel responsible, for it.


The players involved have to realsie that mateship is a two way street. I'm surprised the media hasn't beaten a path to Firman's door. Has he gone underground?
 

robertmorris

Juniors
Messages
49
You see deluded pom, there is no reason whatsoever that the others involved need to come forward... there is no reason that Johns should be in this position in the first place.... NO CRIME WAS COMMITTED... would you be compelled to explain to me what position you and your partner last did it in (presuming you have one.. or two) just because I was compelled to know..?? Of course not... neither would these morally superior bible-bashers, or whatever the f**k diety they believe thay are, do it either.... So why would they demand to know what went on in that bedroom? Perhaps they have some little personality traits that they like to cover with moralistic superiority as a shield......

Matty needs his mates now, more than ever.

I don't know the man, but having enjoyed watching him as a player and as an entertainer, and as somebody concerned that a person can be so vilified and destroyed by an anonymous coward outside the courtroom, I feel deeply for him as he is subject to this unjust slur on his character and has his career and reputation destroyed.

I will try and do my small bit and help him, that's why I wrote this letter and on this forum.

But it his teammates who where there on the night who can really help him, and more or less vindicate him in the doubting public's minds by telling the truth.

You are right in saying they have done all, and even more, that they legally need to do, by giving their statements to police. But Matty needs them now, and if they are real men and mates they will step up and help him, he is down, out and destroyed, and truly needs his friends.
 

deluded pom?

Coach
Messages
10,897
You see deluded pom, there is no reason whatsoever that the others involved need to come forward... there is no reason that Johns should be in this position in the first place.... NO CRIME WAS COMMITTED... would you be compelled to explain to me what position you and your partner last did it in (presuming you have one.. or two) just because I was compelled to know..?? Of course not... neither would these morally superior bible-bashers, or whatever the f**k diety they believe thay are, do it either.... So why would they demand to know what went on in that bedroom? Perhaps they have some little personality traits that they like to cover with moralistic superiority as a shield......


The reason to come forward is not to prove their innocence but to support Johns. Yes you could argue that he's being made a scapegoat but he's being made a scapegoat not just by the media but also by his "friends". Good on him for keeping quiet but shame on them for keeping quiet.
 

sportive cupid

Referee
Messages
25,047
- Radical feminists and cultural studies theorists will always find men and football players guilty as oppressors as women, with them it will always be lose-lose. Their views must always be challenged and never legitimised, like the NRL has done with Catherine Lumby.





Unchallenged

This is why I think there is great danger in legitimizing feminist cultural studies spokespeople like Catherine Lumby as NRL officials, or accepting without challenge like minded radical feminist views presented in the media. Feminist social theory always holds men guilty as oppressors of women, no matter the individual actions or culpability of individual men. Football players, men at the height of masculinity, will always be guilty of social crimes in the eyes of feminists, and no matter their actions, the consent of their female partners, they will always be oppressors and degradators of women.


There is no winning option with radical feminism, it is lose-lose. It does not matter if there was consent and the woman was a willing participant, it does not matter if no crime was committed, it does not matter if the immorality or unprofessionalism was minor or transient, it does not matter if the accusation has no veracity, or is just hearsay or rumor, the man is guilty. Nothing Rugby League can do will appease radical feminists, they will always be agents of male patriarchy and domination. Feminist Cultural Studies places no value on the virtues of sport and athleticism, it sees only wrongs.


It is foolish to ask them to be our games moral judges because the game will never live up to their standard. And it is a standard so far removed from that of the public and woman generally. The fans will always be the ultimate judges, and they will judge with their feet and wallets, on footballers morality. Courts will always be the judges on criminality.


The danger is, that the radical voice becomes the official ombudsmen of Rugby League, as Catherine Lumby seems to have become, or when unchallenged in the public arena, the radical feminist theory of men and footballers as the enemy of women and habitual rapists, becomes legitimate and captures the public mind.




The Rape Libel and the Duke Lacrosse Case


The rape libel, that footballers, and male athletes generally, are habitual rapists, was best exposed in the 2006 Duke Lacrosse Case in the United States. If you haven't read up on the situation, please do, it is the text book case of every sporting rape scandal, and is a portent of where we in Australia are heading or have arrived at.


A young black woman, Crystal Magnum, along with a colleague, were hired as strippers for a team party. No sexual acts occurred at all. The woman later accused the Lacrosse players of gang rape, and police and prosecutors aggressively pressed charges. For over a year the boys, all white, were held up as the worst kind of racist rapists across the entire national media, they had wanted posters plastered around their university, 88 professors authored an article that condemned the male sporting culture of the team as one that was inherently conducive to rape.


This was all in spite of the fact that the players were perfectly innocent, had committed no wrongdoing and no crime what so ever. They had been the victims of a mental unstable, but malicious, fantasist. Her statements to police changed completely many times, the number of supposed rapists was changed multiple times, she could not consistently identify the same players as rapists, despite being given only the lacrosse team photos to choose from, no DNA sample matching any of the players could be found, though the DNA of two other males from a subsequent consensual sexual encounter were, etc... the litany of procedural misconduct and weakness of the case go on and on. Eventually the case was dropped, the boys exonerated, and the prosecutor disbarred, charged and found guilty of professional misconduct.


None of this stopped the media, radical feminists, and the public at large from destroying these athletes lives, careers and reputations as vile gangrapists. The facts did not matter, only the profile, that athletes are habitual rapists, no matter the veracity of the accusation. The same thing happens in Australia with 'Clare', almost nobody in the media has bothered to investigate or establish the veracity of her story, certainly not the ABC before airing her slander. Nobody seems interested in publicly asking the question, is an innocent man being maliciously defamed? Should the veracity of a mentally unstable person be held up to scrutiny before another's life and career are destroyed? Whilst media and public alike seem to be very keen on insinuating and presenting the libel that footballers are gang rapists, no matter the facts. Again when the media fails, when his teammates fail him, only Matthew, and perhaps his close friends like yourself, can defend him, air the truth, and defeat the libel.





This is the other, and perhaps the greater victim of the rape libel against football players, real victims of sexual assault. Does 'Clare' now become the public face of rape? I could not imagine a greater disservice to justice. Pru Goward, a real feminist and a real advocate for the rights of women, and a much better feminist ombudsmen of the NRL than Catherine Lumby could ever be, is very apt is seeing through the rape libel. She has been strongly advocating that women who are victims of sexual assault, or make accusations that they have been, must go to the police and to the courts, to have justice served upon the perpetrators of the crime, and to have the veracity of their accusation tested in the only proper way, before the courts, so that the innocent victims of false accusations may be exonerated, should a prima facie case even exist. This must be the public position strongly advocated by Rugby League, and people like Pru Goward should be the face and mother of Rugby League feminism, not culture studies theorists like Lumby.






In most other walks of life, or even an amateur football player, there is not a strong argument, beyond suggesting that the act itself may be immoral, as to why consenting adults should not engage in group sex. Most people would generally accept that what consenting adults do in the privacy of their own bedrooms is a matter only for them. An analogy would be to replace group sex with homosexuality. Some may find homosexuality to be immoral, but very few would think it proper to interfere or to deny somebody the right to privately engage in the act. Group sex is obviously enjoyable, and there are many woman find it enjoyable and want to participate, so what right does the NRL have to make rules as to what a player does in the bedroom?



Thanks for stepping up for your mate and a man many Australians are great fans of. I wish all the best for Matthew and hope he gets his career back on track as soon as possible. Please keep being his public advocate and if need be carry him through this. Please keep on using you public position to do your best for the game.


Kind Regards,
A fan of the game






P.S.


The Group of 88 Professors Statement on the Duke Lacrosse Case


Link:
http://johnsville.blogspot.com/2006/11/duke-case-listening-statement.html




Until Proven Innocent: Political Correctness and the Shameful Injustices of the Duke Lacrosse Rape Case.

By Stuart Taylor Jr and KC Johnson



A book, which should be required reading for all journalists, sports and otherwise, on the topic.


Book Link:
http://www.amazon.com/Until-Proven-Innocent-Correctness-Injustices/dp/0312384866/ref=ed_oe_p
OK ,I understand that you have a legal background but here are a few thoughts for you

-Feminist social theory always holds men guilty as oppressors of women, no matter the individual actions or culpability of individual men. Sorry ,but I think you need to research your topic a bit more.I'm not going to go through it all here but basically feminist theory does no such thing,It isi more about the structure which oppress women.It works to the advantage of both men and women to live just lives.

There is no winning option with radical feminism Well that presumes a degree of compitition in this-there is not.Feminism is NOT about us and them .It's just about ALL of us.It is a patriachal idea to put a competitive spin on everything.

Feminist Cultural Studies places no value on the virtues of sport and athleticism, it sees only wrongs. What the? Now you are just being silly

Courts will always be the judges on criminality. That may be true.But they are also structures within the context of the society in which they exist.They reflect the attitudes and prejudices of their community.Your example of the stripper in the US is an interesting one.There are many people and legal systems that believe that prostitutes can not be rapes.-funny that?
When a woman/man brings an allegation of sexual assault to the Police they are reliant on the Police to make an informed decision based on the evidence presented.As police forces are predominately male this tends to be interpreted for the male perspective-the male experience of life if you like.In this case the male experience/perspectives of group sex.I am in no way saying these Police acted in a less that competent way.I'm saying that they are what they are I guess.It does not mean it didnt happen just because the law says it didnt.
Are you aware of how many estimated incidents of sexual assault go unreported?Do you really think that is because it didnt happen?Maybe some of them are because they know nothing will come of it.
I work with women in obstetrics and you would not believe how many of them relate past experiences of sexual assault which was either unreported or charged not laid.
real victims of sexual assault. Again assuming that the Law is the definative/impartial/non gender baised knower of truth.

so what right does the NRL have to make rules as to what a player does in the bedroom?
I hope you aren't suggesting that all domestic matters are private and have no place being aired in the community.Sexual assualt is not private it is an expression of power it is not mutual pleasurable sexual encouters.

I am very sorry for the position that Mathew Johns finds himself in.I reckon the other guys have let him down. I don't think he is an evil man.

But I don't think it is an appropriate response to bag off the girl involved.That is what really does put back the cause of all real sexual assualt victims
 
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ramble_on

Juniors
Messages
2,255
His mates may need him now but we are talking about 7 years ago.. they may have wives and children of their own to consider.. they are not responsible for this unacceptable witch hunt taking place at the moment.. why should they place their heads on a chopping block that any reasonable person can see is nothing more than a media feeding frenzy fueled by alterior motives or personal advancement... They also have done nothing wrong by legal standards......
 

sportive cupid

Referee
Messages
25,047
Also not all legal systems include a definition of consent in sexual assault law.( not sure if we even have one in NSW)So in effect Police are left to decide whether they think that the person has consented or not based on their own assumptions.Now if the said policemen think like many here...well.. All I am saying is that you can't really say that if the police dont lay charges/if no crime is recorded- it does not necessarily mean than sexual assault did not occur.
 

ramble_on

Juniors
Messages
2,255
sportive cupid....

The response to bag off the girl involved is something that has been raised more by the ones who are ignoring the evidence that came forth after the initial outrage had propagated.. yes some idiots have gone on to label her in many different and colourful ways, but by no means only those whose opinion differs from yours... that point has taken a completely different spin of it's own and belongs in the realms of people like rebecca wilson and co-. The main point is that this happened 7 years ago and NO CRIME WAS COMMITTED..... there are many cases now that are relevant in that they didn't proceed due to lack of evidence.. take them to task and leave those cleared of any wrong doing alone....
 
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