Maybe Tomkins Is The Answer For Saints

[_Johnsy]

Pass, we have enough options to cover the #1 jersey.

 

[possm]

We do have options to cover both fullback and halfback; the only thing is that these days a team needs top line players in top form to cover 1, 6, 7 and 9 in order to be competitive.

Unfortunately at the moment Saints don't have players that meet this criteria. Maybe this year some will step up however, maybe they won't. There is no doubt we have lots of potential in the Stanley brothers, King, Soward, Goodwin, Rein, De Belin etc. however, apart from Soward, none of these players are proven top line first graders right now. They will need to develope into top line players during the coming seasons.

Hornby is a top line player but now past his prime. He is of geat value to the club and the team but has lost speed and the ability to successfully and freqantly take on the line. In 2011 his kicking game was poor.

Soward has all the ability in the world and is a top class player however, he seems to lose confidence and does not take on the line as many times as he should. You can't have both halves in a team with an inability or reluctance to take on the line and hope to be a major force in the competition.

Yes there are versitile players such as Fein and Young ready and willing to put their sholder to the wheel and give all they can when ever required however, Fein is in a similar situation as that of Hornby and Young does his level best despite his crinic knee injury.

So it is my opinion that Saints can make a fist of it in 2012 with the sqaud they now have but would be much better placed if they signed a front line fullback or halfback with the remaining available funds in their salary cap.

Tomkins is an exciting player to watch and he aquited himself well against the Kangaroos this weekend. It is my view that he could make a big difference to our chances of winning the comp in 2012. I believe it would be silly to just sit back and hope that things will turn out for the best. Do we just cross our fingers and hope that injuries don't disrupt our playing roster too badly.

We only have to look back to the problems Saints faced with the left hand wing position this year to see how a lack of depth can limit a team's progress.

 

[gypsy]

Some good points Possm. However, equally some irrelevant ones and some nonsense thrown in for good measure.

Why have you mentioned De Belin in the pool of players trying to fix our 1,6,7,9 woes?

You say we need top line players, in top form to be competitive...I think you're confused as to what form is. Was Soward in the first half of 2011 up to scratch? Origin jersey (including a match winning performance), lead us so far up the ladder a betting agency paid out on our minor premiership..with half the season left?
You can't allow for form pre-season. Every player goes hot and cold...whats Jarryd Hayne doing these days? Look at Todd Carney, Dally M medal winner in 2010, but he wasn't the same player in 2011. You can't plan for that.

The Hornby/Soward combination over the last 3 years, has netted us 2 minor premierships, a GF, a world club challenge...and we were a golden point win away from facing Manly in a GF qualifier, which many believe we would have won.

You say Hornby is too slow to play in the halves....have you heard of A.Johns? D.Lockyer?
Were they fast? No. Did it matter? No. Why? Because they had speed outside them!
Yet, you have been pioneering heavily to move Hornby to fullback, a position where speed is probably the biggest asset required!

I mean, even Hitler once said: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3XafZAM-BPk

As for Tomkins, it's irrelevant if he'd make a difference to us in 2012. Billy Slater would make a difference too...but unfortunately they share two things in common...1. An existing contract, and 2. A big price tag.

This so called left over money we have, we thought we spent it on Moltzen, the best option available in our price range. Hardly the Dragons fault he is a sook.
Tomkins would command near double the amount that Moltzen would.

As for our supposed lack of depth on the wing last year, that's a result of having 2 of the top 5 wingers in the world in your squad. You can't have it all.. look at Fai Fai Loa.. Clearly first grade standard, but you can't expect to keep/buy NRL standard wingers and expect them to play 2 games a year and be happy, when they get a start elsewhere (and in his case, a tour with NZ).
We had a few decent backup options last year, but Goodwin was injured, and Tagive didn't step up to the plate on limited opportunities.

You can't have it all when there's a thing called the salary cap. Melbourne tried that.
But we have Cooper, Nighty, Morris, Hornby, Soward, Weyman, Hunt, Young, Fein, Prior, Merrin, Creagh, Scott all with rep experience. I think we're doing alright.

 

[Bring back choc]

Gypsy I don't think anyone can dispute that we'll need a fullback or half 5/8 in the next couple of years.

We have some ageing players that will need to be replaced. I think Kyle will wear the # 1 jumper, but when hornby has had enough we'll need to re-arrange the halves. Whether soward moves to # 7 and Kyle plays 5/8 only time will tell. But if this happens we will need a top line fullback IMO. On th flip side if Kyle makes the # 1 jumper his own then we'll need a quality half to replace hornby.
I believe Dugan is the answer for us. But he'll be very hard to get.

 

[gypsy]

You're right choc, in the next couple of years we will.
I don't think we need to worry about that yet. Plus, as the Broncos have shown, you don't always have to look outside for options. Not too many people would have heard of Beale, Yow Yeh, Read, Hoffman a few years ago. The Broncos bought Inglis (or thought they did before he done a Moltz) thinking they needed to strengthen their centre stocks. Do they need a centre now? No way.

My point, if we need a player down the track, it should be assessed then. Who's to say Cummins doesn't come on quicker than expected. Might be silly to waste 400k a year on Dugan, if this kid goes alright and Kyle makes the 1 jersey his own. I guess we'll find out.

 

[Minh]

Exciting times ahead indeed can't wait to see a full season of Kyle stanley and the progress of some of the younger players.

 

[RedVee]

You're right choc, in the next couple of years we will.
I don't think we need to worry about that yet. Plus, as the Broncos have shown, you don't always have to look outside for options. Not too many people would have heard of Beale, Yow Yeh, Read, Hoffman a few years ago. The Broncos bought Inglis (or thought they did before he done a Moltz) thinking they needed to strengthen their centre stocks. Do they need a centre now? No way.

My point, if we need a player down the track, it should be assessed then. Who's to say Cummins doesn't come on quicker than expected. Might be silly to waste 400k a year on Dugan, if this kid goes alright and Kyle makes the 1 jersey his own. I guess we'll find out.

I thinking more of focussing on 2013 and a half precisely because I believe we've got more coming through in Cummins, KStanley etc to cover fullback than we do to cover half. Hornby wont last forever and I'm not aware of any gun we have just waiting on a spot. Soward half, KStanley 5/8 seems the best option this far out.

 

[gypsy]

I thinking more of focussing on 2013 and a half precisely because I believe we've got more coming through in Cummins, KStanley etc to cover fullback than we do to cover half. Hornby wont last forever and I'm not aware of any gun we have just waiting on a spot. Soward half, KStanley 5/8 seems the best option this far out.

You're right, halfback stocks are a bit thin at the moment.

If the Dragons wanted a quick fix, they could look at a few of the Sharks halves.
They've got Jeff Robson, Chad Townsend and Albert Kelly all fighting for one spot, with Carney locking up the other. They also have Wade Graham playing at Lock most likely.
One of those could be a good buy, unless they want to wait and go all out for a Cronk etc.

 

[Cagey Mac]

You're right, halfback stocks are a bit thin at the moment.

If the Dragons wanted a quick fix, they could look at a few of the Sharks halves.
They've got Jeff Robson, Chad Townsend and Albert Kelly all fighting for one spot, with Carney locking up the other. They also have Wade Graham playing at Lock most likely.
One of those could be a good buy, unless they want to wait and go all out for a Cronk etc.

I like the looks of Wade Graham but are we so poorly off?

Soward
Hornby (better than the other options above even in his twilight years, if he's in them)
Stanley 5/8 with Sowie to Half
King
Fein (same as Hornby)
Cummins
Okay if someone great came along then go for it but it's not too bad given the as yet unrealised potential of our young roster

 

[Mr Red]

I like the looks of Wade Graham but are we so poorly off?

Soward
Hornby (better than the other options above even in his twilight years, if he's in them)
Stanley 5/8 with Sowie to Half
King
Fein (same as Hornby)
Cummins
Okay if someone great came along then go for it but it's not too bad given the as yet unrealised potential of our young roster

agree with Cagey... i think gypsy has had a few too many drinks recommending we look at any sharks halves.. none of them are better options then what we currently have .

 

[gypsy]

agree with Cagey... i think gypsy has had a few too many drinks recommending we look at any sharks halves.. none of them are better options then what we currently have .

It was an observation, champ! The Sharks have a multitude of halves, and we'd be able to snag one cheap. It's just an observation, because people like choc are pushing the panic button. I think we'll be fine. Champ.

 

[Father Ted]

It was an observation, champ! The Sharks have a multitude of halves, and we'd be able to snag one cheap. It's just an observation, because people like choc are pushing the panic button. I think we'll be fine. Champ.

It would depend if any of them were off contract and then they'd have to sign a deed of release Champ

 

[Bring back choc]

Put simply, we need to sign more players.
But we won't.

Thanks

 

[gypsy]

It would depend if any of them were off contract and then they'd have to sign a deed of release Champ

:lol: the ol' deed of release of course. What is a contract worth? This is where a loan system would be good in the NRL I think.

 

[Cagey Mac]

It was an observation, champ! The Sharks have a multitude of halves, and we'd be able to snag one cheap. It's just an observation, because people like choc are pushing the panic button. I think we'll be fine. Champ.

A legitimate observation too
They are all NRL grade players but with few exceptions it's a pretty level bunch of players out there from a halves perspective.
As I said, I liked Graham and his defence is very good for a 5/8 and Townsend had some early success but may suffer 2nd year syndrome.
Robson is reliable
Hornby would still have been in contention for SOO had he not stepped aside. Sowie had a quiet quarter of a season but is still the goods.
I'd like everybody to take a look at Evander Cummins stats from late last season too on www.nrlstats.com.au if you get the chance. It's pretty bloody impressive.
Injuries across the roster is likely to be the biggest flaw in our 2012 lineup if there is one. Stanley's, Fein and Hornby aging and more vulnerable to niggling injuries, Goodwin, Cummins, King, Young, Sowie, Coops et al. Many have had sustained periods of injury or recurrent problems.
Depth is going to be paramount and man management will be critical.
I'm really hoping for a lean rep season as we rebuild

 

[st.phil]

Just had a look at cummins stats from last year...amazing...metres gained are INSANE

 

[Cagey Mac]

Just had a look at cummins stats from last year...amazing...metres gained are INSANE

The tackle breaks and line breaks are aLSo off the scale with a comparitively low error rate
The improvement in form of our NYC team coincided with Cummins' return from injury
At fullback, in time, he may be really good at NRL level
A half with that kind of ball running, tackle breaking abillity would certainly put the cat among the pigeons.

 

[nrlnrl]

The tackle breaks and line breaks are aLSo off the scale with a comparitively low error rate
The improvement in form of our NYC team coincided with Cummins' return from injury
At fullback, in time, he may be really good at NRL level
A half with that kind of ball running, tackle breaking abillity would certainly put the cat among the pigeons.

Yep, the transition from Toyota Cup to NRL is much easier for backs, look at the success rate of players like Locke, Johnson, Foran, Cherry-Evans, Hopoate etc. I think we should have some faith in the ability of players like Cummins.

Also, keep an eye out for Charly Runciman in Toyota Cup this year - fullback from Dubbo with pace.

 

[Hollywood]

I think we need 2 look 2 get by in 2012 with what we have in the fullback department. That said there seems to be some strong suggestions linking Dugan to the Dragons in 2013, though got a feeling Tigers might also have a dip at him.

I'd prefer 2 wait and have a real crack at Dugan as i think we have a massive chance there. Im surprised this hasn't already surfaced to date on the forums.

Look for this rumour to gather pace during 2012, or perhaps a play for a halfback!

 

[gypsy]

I'd prefer 2 wait and have a real crack at Dugan as i think we have a massive chance there. Im surprised this hasn't already surfaced to date on the forums.

Look for this rumour to gather pace during 2012, or perhaps a play for a halfback!

Just out of interest, do you read the forums?