Media analysis

[screeny]

I have South African sports channel Supersport on my Mid East satellite. I got to watch it last Thursday and caught a programme called Boots 'n' All.

I have to say, it was without doubt the best rugby analysis programme I've ever seen.

I don't know about in Oz but in England our only magazine prog, of the same name incidentally, is absolute garbage with zero serious analysis (this is because Stevo and co would be incapable of analysing the modern game properly). In Oz are all the programmes 'comedy' based like the Footy Show or are there serious analysis programmes?

The SA version spent an hour talking about tactics and breaking down the games - mainly SA v Oz Tri Nations - in such detail that you had to respect it and, for a technical geek like me, it made compelling viewing.

Everythig from break down play to defensive schemes etc all the things that should be getting discussed in RL but aren't.

I then watched a rah rah game, Currie Cup, at the weekend, and then Les Cats and.....forgive me oh lord.......I enjoyed the Currie Cup game more!!!!!!! AAaaaaaahhh I'm burning in hell!!!

I accept that a lot of this had to do with the quality of the specific games rather than a generalisation about the two sports (by this I mean that it was the best SA players while at the bottom of SL you've got a committment and quality struggle), and the sh*te offering of les Cats in a non-atmospheric non-event compared with the rah rah scum who seemed more committed and sharper, but we need to take our game more seriously.

Most league 'commentators' and even journalists would struggle to keep up an interesting conversation about detailed tecniques and tactics in my opinion, and most of the (British) players are too stupid to.......

 

[Paley]

The SA version spent an hour talking about tactics and breaking down the games - mainly SA v Oz Tri Nations - in such detail that you had to respect it and, for a technical geek like me, it made compelling viewing.

Its a typical union trick, they cloak the game in a load of analytical crap - it makes it appear more than it is. The Aus v SA game was a you kick me kick game of unending tedium and no amount of analysis will ever change that. As for rugby players being more stupid than their union counterparts - what gives you that idea?

As an aside, don't forget that teams having coaches has been around for far longer in rugby than in union.

 

[Woods99]

Its a typical union trick, they cloak the game in a load of analytical crap - it makes it appear more than it is. The Aus v SA game was a you kick me kick game of unending tedium and no amount of analysis will ever change that. As for rugby players being more stupid than their union counterparts - what gives you that idea?

As an aside, don't forget that teams having coaches has been around for far longer in rugby than in union.

A "typical union trick". Like the success of the RWC is just because of marketing tricks.

Keep believing that, guys.

 

[linny]

A "typical union trick". Like the success of the RWC is just because of marketing tricks.

Keep believing that, guys.

Well Woods, if the World Cup was successful for something other than its marketing tricks (creating a pseudo-olympics hype) like say the actual product of the sport itself, the popularity of Union competitions such as the Super 14 and the Tri-nations should have been sky-rocketing by now.

Hmm funny thing is that the Super 14 can't even get on free to air TV because no one watched it, and the Tri-Nations ratings have been disgusting and are getting worse.

Now if there was so much to like about Union when the media machine can't flog it off as a quality competition, then why aren't people in Australia watching it???

 

[russ13]

In Australia on Sunday mornings (On Channel 9) there have a couple of RL shows that get down to the serious analysis business.

There are also a couple of RL programs on Pay TV that do the same.

BTW the only time I have watched SA union game I found the game to be incredible boring. There are just to many fatsos. The crowds to this year's Curie Cup must have also concurred as they have fallen dramatically.

http://www.keo.co.za/2006/06/30/currie-cup-fans-a-no-show/
Absa Currie Cup fans a no-show
Friday 30 June 2006

The not-so prestigious premier league of South African rugby saw poor turnouts in it’s opening week, and this weekend is set to see much of the same. http://forums.leagueunlimited.com/
Rob Wagner, MD of WP Rugby has indicated that the poor attendance figures could be attributed to the poor performances of the Springboks, as well as the fact that none of those players will play Currie Cup rugby in 2006.
“I think that we underestimate the impact that the performance of the national team has on the psyche of the nation. And the three tests thus far haven’t set the nation alight with regards to the performances. Maybe that’s a reason,” the WP Rugby boss told Rugby365 editor Jan de Koning.
The figures really do put this sad story into perspective. The Sharks opening match against the Lions was the only encounter to draw over 10 000 spectators, with 15 180 paying customers attending the game.
In second place was the Vodacom Blue Bulls and Valke match which only attracted 7 492 of the usually impressive Loftus Versveld turnout. In Bloemfontein, 2 000 fans gathered to watch the central derby between the Vodacom Cheetahs and Griquas, whilst the numbers were even worse in Witbank with 2 000 being the official count for the Pumas and Province clash.
The old coastal rivalry is to be resumed tomorrow at Newlands, but Wagner fears that it may no be the big occasion it once was. The unions are said to be planning on budget cuts, as the takings at the gates are no longer sufficient.
“At this point in time, for a typical Currie Cup game, it is not good,” Wagner said. “We haven’t improved on years gone by, despite the fact that we’re in a so-called strength-versus-strength competition,” Wagner said.
“Again one has to ask, is the absence of leading players not the only reason why we have these poor attendance figures?
“”It will be interesting to see how the [rest of the] Currie Cup pans out, particularly from an attendance point of few. It had been a shock, and we’ll see what the crowd attendance is like here [at Newlands] on Saturday.”
By Jon Cardinelli

 

[AlbertRosenfeld]

I agree with Russ13.

The two Sunday shows on Channel 9 in Sydney (and Brisbane?) are The Footy Show (serious version with Phil Gould) and I forget the name of the other. They are both good analysis. Fox cable also has a couple of analysis shows during the week.

But I just want to add that the ABC Radio broadcast of rugby league is top class. David Morrow (uncle of Harlequins' back Nick Bradley-Qalilawa) as principal caller, and Warren Ryan (former top coach) as principal analyst are second to none. Unfortunately they seem to be unavailable on the internet. So I only have the chance to hear them for the few weeks when I am in Australia. I even take my radio to the games I am attending when I know they are doing the call. It would be great next year, in an expanded 16 team and hence 8 game per week NRL competition, if they could be given rights to broadcast on the net.

 

[screeny]

Its a typical union trick, they cloak the game in a load of analytical crap - it makes it appear more than it is. The Aus v SA game was a you kick me kick game of unending tedium and no amount of analysis will ever change that. As for rugby players being more stupid than their union counterparts - what gives you that idea?

As an aside, don't forget that teams having coaches has been around for far longer in rugby than in union.

Can you be any more patronising?

I happen to know both games well - I coach, ref and play RL - and I want to hear RL being discussed in as much detail as they were discussing their game. Just saying 'we shouldn't bother and they weren't really talking seriously about anything' is ridiculous and merely dumbing down RL even more.

They did, in fact, criticise the game, but what's your point, that only good games can be analysed? Can't two tactical systems in RL negate each other producing a dour game (incidentally I like dour RL, if it's technically well delivered by the players).

I want RL experts to analyse a game and tell me about unders and overs lines, about running at inside shoulders and set construction. RL is far more technically advanced than RU but I've never seen a RL expert take several excerpts from a video of a game to demonstrate a point about rush defence - I saw that last Thursday.

Stupidity? Well, the demographics of the game in England mean that, on average, I'd suggest a top RU player has a better education than his SL cousin.

Your point about coaching in RL being around longer than RU I don't understand. I know coaching structures in RL are far more detailed and analytical than in RU, but our media analysis of our sport simply does not reflect anything other than a simple game - which RL is not.

 

[screeny]

Russ13 and Albert,

That's good to know about the serious analysis Down Under. Even in our newspapers we only get bog standard match reports and nothing else.

Russ, yes, the crowds in the matches in SA this season that I've seen have been very poor indeed, and most of the entertainment has too.

My point is that RL just needs to get its media act together. I made a similar point some time ago about the 'simple game plan'. All we hear is about simple game plans - I am fed up of the over-simplification of RL! Read coaching manuals, the techniques aren't simple; play the game, the sport; it's not simple to play it (well).

As much as I hate RU - and god knows I do - the SA media takes it seriously, a lot, lot more seriously than RL seems to take itself.

 

[deluded pom?]

Stupidity? Well, the demographics of the game in England mean that, on average, I'd suggest a top RU player has a better education than his SL cousin.

Now who's being patronising ? Are you trying to tell me from 12,000 miles away that you know the standards of education in the various areas of the U.K. ? The average RU international player may have had a university education but that's more to do with the old school tie than with the talent of the player . The fact is RU was and still is a middle class sport here . As a matter of course more middle class people attend university . To say because of that that RU players are more intellingent is insulting to say the least . Because you go to uni it doesn't make you smarter than a person of equal intelligence who doesn't go to uni .

 

[screeny]

Now who's being patronising ? Are you trying to tell me from 12,000 miles away that you know the standards of education in the various areas of the U.K. ? The average RU international player may have had a university education but that's more to do with the old school tie than with the talent of the player . The fact is RU was and still is a middle class sport here . As a matter of course more middle class people attend university . To say because of that that RU players are more intellingent is insulting to say the least . Because you go to uni it doesn't make you smarter than a person of equal intelligence who doesn't go to uni .

I'm from London. Open your eyes man! Are you saying that the avg pro RL player comes across as well erudite and eloquent on telly?

And what's your point, that RU isn't associated with a higher demographic than RL?

 

[russ13]

Albert

One of the joys of my life is listening to Wok, David Morrow & the rest of the ABC team. That is why I shun a lot of the Sunday morning TV RL shows.

I mean listening/watching football from 10Am to 6 pm is a bit much.

On SA union-some of their mostly coloured outside black players look pretty exciting. Bent Russell (whose is white) is also exciting. But for the rest I don't think they are worth 2 bob.


& another thing, whether we like it or not there are only about half-a-dozen countries in the world that have have a decent standard of either rugby code. To survive these competitions have have reasonable competent players. So in that regard the SA union players aren't to bad. They are certainly better than the Italians, Romanians, Namibians, Canadians, Argentinians etc.

How many countries have FTA or even Pay TV regularly available for their local union or league competitions?

I would guess it would only be the UK (& Ireland), France, South Africa, Australia, PNG & New Zealand.

So we should be just a little more appreciative of what we have got.

 

[ParraEelsNRL]

I agree with Russ13.

The two Sunday shows on Channel 9 in Sydney (and Brisbane?) are The Footy Show (serious version with Phil Gould) and I forget the name of the other. They are both good analysis. Fox cable also has a couple of analysis shows during the week.

But I just want to add that the ABC Radio broadcast of rugby league is top class. David Morrow (uncle of Harlequins' back Nick Bradley-Qalilawa) as principal caller, and Warren Ryan (former top coach) as principal analyst are second to none. Unfortunately they seem to be unavailable on the internet. So I only have the chance to hear them for the few weeks when I am in Australia. I even take my radio to the games I am attending when I know they are doing the call. It would be great next year, in an expanded 16 team and hence 8 game per week NRL competition, if they could be given rights to broadcast on the net.

I agree, if you try to get some people into the game and they have heard stories about League(From anti League people) the best way is to listen to the ABC call, it makes them use their brains more.

Then when they watch on TV, they work things out.

 

[Paley]

I'm from London. Open your eyes man! Are you saying that the avg pro RL player comes across as well erudite and eloquent on telly?

Some do and some don't - unfortunately pro rugby players get media training which often amounts to being told not to say much. I have seen a player interviewed after a game and they come across as not having much to say then when I have met them and talked to them they have been articulate and amusing.

 

[deluded pom?]

I'm from London. Open your eyes man!

Do you seriously think I read your profile !!!!

 

[screeny]

Do you seriously think I read your profile !!!!

I didn't even realise I had a profile.

The 'open your eyes' comment wasn't supposed to be about me being from London, that was just an aisde. The comment was aimed at the obvious truth, that RU pros seems to come across as more articulate than RL ones, and that RU traditionally operates from a higher social demographic than RL.

Anyway....that's not the point of the thread!!!!!

Me angry....RU has good analysis; RL doesn't.

 

[Woods99]

I didn't even realise I had a profile.

The 'open your eyes' comment wasn't supposed to be about me being from London, that was just an aisde. The comment was aimed at the obvious truth, that RU pros seems to come across as more articulate than RL ones, and that RU traditionally operates from a higher social demographic than RL.

Anyway....that's not the point of the thread!!!!!

Me angry....RU has good analysis; RL doesn't.

Warren Ryan is by far the best analyst in either rugby code. In Australia, that is.

 

[screeny]

Warren Ryan is by far the best analyst in either rugby code. In Australia, that is.

I'll match that by saying that Stevo is the worst 'analyst' in either code of rugby - actually in any sport - in the world.

 

[deluded pom?]

Please excuse me , I'm just a thick Northerner .

 

[Green Machine]

In 1987, David Morrow called the Saturday afternoon TV game for the ABC. His expert analysis was none other than former Dewsbury & Penrith Hooker, Mike Stevenson,