National Referee League

[East Coast Tiger]

There's a few origin games when NSW may of got a few calls go there way only for like about 20 years straight.

Riiiiiiight. Given they've only ever won three years in a row once I don't know how that's possible, but then even considering the notion that Qld has somehow been cheated in Origin and NSW has benefited seems to be giving it more credit than it's worth. Nonetheless, I have watched origin since about 1990 and I can't remember any games as one sided as last night in favour of either state. And I've lived in both states and heard all the conspiracy theories and claims of bias under the sun from both angles.

 

[rockcod]

We need to get rid of the kick for touch - its too harsh when added to the restart of the tackle count - and makes the refs too influential on the momentum.

I was thinking the same thing last night, when they get a strip / lost ball decision wrong it is a massive momentum shift when you can kick for touch 30m down field instead of defending a scrum.

 

[T-Boon]

I was thinking the same thing last night, when they get a strip / lost ball decision wrong it is a massive momentum shift when you can kick for touch 30m down field instead of defending a scrum.

Exactly. With the kick for touch it makes every penalty the equivalent of at least one line break probably more like two. And there are twice as many penalties per game as there are line breaks. So the ref interpretation is twice as influential as the play making. Thats not good.

One reason I think the ruck penalty should not restart the tackle count is that tackle 1,2,3 are almost always just one out hit ups - even in the attacking zone. So you just have a repetition of those boring set up runs.

 

[rockcod]

Every game there is at least a couple of blatant wrong calls in the ruck, hands on ball when there isn't, strip when its lost cold, penalty for crowding when he's dropped it. The ref is making a 50/50 a lot of the time and half the time he doesn't see it properly but get 3 or 4 calls the way of one team and it can change the possession stats massively.
I wouldn't mind a 2 tier penalty system where you have same penalty as now for deliberate and dangerous stuff and just a restart and quick tap or something (no kick for goal) for smaller ruck penalties and stuff like that. It would also be better at the end of the close games where they get decided by a penalty goal for a strip or something dodgy.

 

[T-Boon]

Every game there is at least a couple of blatant wrong calls in the ruck, hands on ball when there isn't, strip when its lost cold, penalty for crowding when he's dropped it. The ref is making a 50/50 a lot of the time and half the time he doesn't see it properly but get 3 or 4 calls the way of one team and it can change the possession stats massively.
I wouldn't mind a 2 tier penalty system where you have same penalty as now for deliberate and dangerous stuff and just a restart and quick tap or something (no kick for goal) for smaller ruck penalties and stuff like that. It would also be better at the end of the close games where they get decided by a penalty goal for a strip or something dodgy.

In my opinion the hold down penalties are the worst because they usually look almost exactly like many many other tackles in the game and you are left wondering if it was just the mood that the referee was in or has he just decided it is time to level things up or have some sort of influence?

 

[rockcod]

Yep, they will let them go a few times and warn players but are scared to penalize because it is such a big advantage, if it was just a tackle restart then they would be more inclined to give it when it was there. It wouldn't be a stoppage though with a meeting and discussion while kicking for touch.

 

[Tommy Smith]

Stop making so much sense, T-Boon. We can't have that in the NRL!

The worst part about the grey nature of penalties given for 'laying around in the ruck for too long' is that you'll see about half a dozen given in the first half, and then virtually none in the final 20 minutes if it's a close game.

I'm certain the refs start with the atttitude "let's set a low bar and blow a few penalties early on for minor holding down infringements to set the tone"

Followed in the final 20 minutes by...
"Geez this is a close game I better put my whistle away. Unless there's a blatant head high or spear tackle I'll let the guys play"

Followed even further in golden point by...
"f**k, these guys are 6m offside trying to charge down the field goal attempt but I don't want to decide the game so I'll let it go".

It's bad enough that players are refereed different; teams are refereed differently; and players and teams are refereed differently at different freaking grounds too! (See the Broncos impervious Suncorp home ground advantage).

But on top of all of that, all these players and teams are refereed different at different points in a match. There's a clear difference in refereeing standards between minutes 0-40, 40-60, 60-70, 70-80 and the infamous golden point free for all.

Basically, it's a complete and utter crapshoot with no consistency at all; with referees making multiple arbitrary game defining calls throughout a game. And as we saw last night it's not uncommon for these subjective calls to largely favour one side (actually in last night's case, completely favour one side).

And this bullshit decides games. Or at the very least it sets a game well and truly in motion on a certain path that it may otherwise not have travelled upon.

And as you said T-Boon, a large part of the problem is the massive punishment (a kick for touch and a repeat set of six) resulting from an arbitrary penalty, which may or may not have been given based on bias regarding the team involved, player involved, the ground the game is played at, the circumstances of the game, and the minute of the game.

The whole refereeing system as it stands is a steaming pile of shit that has destroyed fan confidence in the game. And the only people who have faith in it, I suspect, are the NRL and Broncos fans.

 

[RL The greatest game]

After watching the Broncos v Titans match i'm convinced there's not a single ref who knows what theyre doing, or if they do, they choose to ignore whats in front of them for desired results.

NRL = National Referee League.

Has there been a game in recent memory with so many 1 sided decisions and general bias against a team?

I have said it before and i will say it it again.Australian refs are light years behind British refs and don't get me on the bunker

That idiot archer will cime out and say all was fine. .some bs reason why the refs needed to say that

Archer was the worst ref i have ever seen ref at international level.

If Sutton refs another game this year then its a fix.
No-one f*cks up that much.

Sutton is not fit to ref at junior level let alone first grade

 

[Billythekid]

Stop making so much sense, T-Boon. We can't have that in the NRL!

The worst part about the grey nature of penalties given for 'laying around in the ruck for too long' is that you'll see about half a dozen given in the first half, and then virtually none in the final 20 minutes if it's a close game.

I'm certain the refs start with the atttitude "let's set a low bar and blow a few penalties early on for minor holding down infringements to set the tone"

Followed in the final 20 minutes by...
"Geez this is a close game I better put my whistle away. Unless there's a blatant head high or spear tackle I'll let the guys play"

Followed even further in golden point by...
"f**k, these guys are 6m offside trying to charge down the field goal attempt but I don't want to decide the game so I'll let it go".

It's bad enough that players are refereed different; teams are refereed differently; and players and teams are refereed differently at different freaking grounds too! (See the Broncos impervious Suncorp home ground advantage).

But on top of all of that, all these players and teams are refereed different at different points in a match. There's a clear difference in refereeing standards between minutes 0-40, 40-60, 60-70, 70-80 and the infamous golden point free for all.

Basically, it's a complete and utter crapshoot with no consistency at all; with referees making multiple arbitrary game defining calls throughout a game. And as we saw last night it's not uncommon for these subjective calls to largely favour one side (actually in last night's case, completely favour one side).

And this bullshit decides games. Or at the very least it sets a game well and truly in motion on a certain path that it may otherwise not have travelled upon.

And as you said T-Boon, a large part of the problem is the massive punishment (a kick for touch and a repeat set of six) resulting from an arbitrary penalty, which may or may not have been given based on bias regarding the team involved, player involved, the ground the game is played at, the circumstances of the game, and the minute of the game.

The whole refereeing system as it stands is a steaming pile of shit that has destroyed fan confidence in the game. And the only people who have faith in it, I suspect, are the NRL and Broncos fans.

Whilst not exactly what we should go for union already have a variant of this. Not all penalties are the same and they shouldn't all be treated the same. Having penalties that don't result in a kick for touch would be fantastic for the game.

I've been trying to think how to sort out the bullshit forced penalties on the line. Maybe if you give perform an infringement within the 20 metre line than you have to sit out the rest of that defensive set.

I feel like overall there just needs to be an overhaul of the system. Penalties and as a by product of that referees have far too much influence on the game. This isn't just about bias either. I just don't want games being wholly decided by refs when most of the penalties are 50/50 at best if not outright wrong. If it's not something like foul play if probably rather no kicks for touch. Quick taps are more exciting anyway.

 

[Shorty]

We need to reduce the influence of the referee's on the outcome of the game by changing the punishment for penalties.
We need to get rid of the kick for touch - its too harsh when added to the restart of the tackle count - and makes the refs too influential on the momentum. For example ruck infringements which are usually 50/50 and very arbitrary calls. The penalty should be to advance 20 or 30 metres play the ball in the middle of the ground but no restart to the tackle count. For infringements that involve endangering someone (e.g. high tackle) the penalty should be harsher - something like a restart to the tackle count, advancing 20 metres, plus the offending team losing the player to the side line for the set.
If we reduce the punishments for minor penalties it will put the onus on coaches to try to come up with more attacking game plans such as going to the backline inside your own territory or even chip kicks from inside your own territory. We could also tweak some rules to give the players more opportunities to influence momentum (tweak the stripping rule etc).

Yep spot on.

Another idea is penalizing for 'flops' or 'milking'.
Change over of the ball from this, would kill the issue pretty quick.

 

[Wests is Best]

Good thread. I have often thought that the style of refereeing has not evolved with the game. I have been watching the game since the the beginning of the 1980's. Back then the game traditionally had a softening up period then the game opened up as time went on due to the replacement rules at the time resulting in fatigue. The refereeing was in tune with that as I think Tommy Smith commented in an earlier post ie. There were more penalties early to keep the forwards apart, and as the game opened up and the gaps started to appear the whistle was more or less put away to let the game flow. Trouble is with interchange and professionalism, the last minute of the match these days is as intense as the first minute. Basically the softening up period goes for the whole match, and our referees are still refereeing like Jack Danzey did in 1982.

 

[POPEYE]

There's only one answer, employ Richard Silverwood as Director of Referees and just as Josh Hodgson has done, let him teach it his way

 

[siv]

Referees from a young are coached or threatened to not impact the game rather than backing themselves and making a right call, even if may impact the game