National Under 20s - your opinion?

[Lockyer4President!]

If the clubs that have feeder clubs in the Q Cup field sides in the under 20s comp they will (probably) have no use for the Q Cup. If Brisbane pull out of Toowoomba, Toowoomba will not be able to compete, if Melbourne pull out of Norths, Norths are dead in the water, if North Qld doesn't need the Young Guns they will disappear and if the Titans don't need Burleigh, Tweed and Ipswich those clubs will also miss out on money and players. Basically it has the potential to kill the Q Cup as it currently is.
If the Q Cup is then considered a 3rd tier competition it also can't be good for sponsorship and TV deals etc.

Ahh okay, so it's more of a flow-on effect then.

I can understand if the Young Guns leave as they used to be in the NSW comp anyway but surely a club like Toowoomba will be able to survive without acting as the Broncos feeder club?

 

[East Coast Tiger]

Ahh okay, so it's more of a flow-on effect then.

I can understand if the Young Guns leave as they used to be in the NSW comp anyway but surely a club like Toowoomba will be able to survive without acting as the Broncos feeder club?

Doubt it. Toowoomba would struggle financially and on the field if the Broncos pulled the pin. They'd go from premiership contenders to bottom three or four, that's if they survived at all. They'd be in the same boat as Cantrals or Ipswich. Norths would definitely be stuffed. Apparently Melbourne are keeping the club affloat.

 

[Join The Bandwagon]

If u/20 is introduced, there will be no Premier League.

This makes it harder, if not impossible, for late bloomers to make it to the NRL. Guys that Matthew Head, Fuiui Moimoi, Charlie Tonga etc, didn't debut untill their mid 20's.

If this competition is introduced, players who don't hit their strides untill their mid 20's will be lost.

Premier League has no age limit and allows late bloomers to blossem. Keep it!

 

[2 True Blues]

If It's not broke don't fix it !!!!

 

[Wicks]

For Premier League clubs select their 17 best players outside of the NRL, no matter what there age is.

Not true They also pick up players that will fill a role for the club These sorts of players can do the job from a strong state competition where there is also an opportunity to strengthen local areas in league

The majority of clubs keep their better players at their own age level unless they are in first grade and give them the occasional game of Jersey Flegg or Premier League depending on their development

How would National Under-20s be stronger if there are some better players who are unable to be selected because they are too old? If clubs are allowed to play 8 overage players then I don’t see what the difference is to Premier League now.

Jersey Flegg standard is already better than Premier League Introduction of the Queensland clubs and NZ

Paul Aiton, Danny Wicks, Michael Gordon, Zeb Taia, Michael Crockett, Isaac De Gois, Adam Cuthbertson, Jeremy Smith, Billy Ngawini, Ben Jones, George Ndaira, Daryl Millars, Lee Te Maari, Germaine Paulson, Jon Green, Adrian Purtell, Josh Cordoba, Ben Roberts, Jarrod Saffy, Chris Bailey, Matthew Bell, Jarrod Hickey, Toshio Laiseni, Craig Trindall, Nick Kouparitsas, Luke Harlen, Brett Kelly, Mailangi Styles, Marcus Perenara, Steve Merefith, Lafi Manua, Josh Lewis and Taniela Tuiaki.

In comparison to Darius Boyd Joel Moon David Taylor Jarryd Hayne William Zillman Stuart Flanagan Brett Morris Luke Douglas Tony Caine Patrick Ah Van Shaun Foley Setaimata Sa? Its a no contest How many potential representative players in the first lot? Very few Quantity or Quality? The quantity can play in the third tier

The other thing you have to look at which players have already been slated to play first grade Those who already have to work their way through can do it from the third tier while we get better quality football from the best clubs

A differing opinion comes from Wayne Bennett who wants to keep as many players as possible away from public attention

I don’t think it provides a better pathway. They have had no trouble progressing with the system the way it is. I don’t think it needs to change.

How is it that Jersey Flegg and Premier League are regarded as the development grounds when it is more likely to be the 16s and 18s in NSW and QLD where the best players are evaluated and signed to contracts?

Most Premier League players haven’t peaked. They are mainly on their way up. But now they will not be able to keep developing at the level below NRL. They will be pushed lower.

So we should accept a poorer product and no television because players feel more comfortable in the current competition and because

There are many fans, including me, who follow their club in Premier League or Queensland Cup.

Your allegiance gets in the way of making an assessment Highlighted by the presumptions in the the rest of your post which includes information that none of us know

Guys that Matthew Head, Fuiui Moimoi, Charlie Tonga etc, didn't debut untill their mid 20's.

Head was 20

If It's not broke don't fix it !!!!

Administrators officials coaches and ex-players have all spoken about their disappointment in the quality of play at Premier League level

 

[ledzep]

IMO, forwards in particular need the step between Flegg and NRL that is PL to continue developing. The majority of Flegg forwards are nowhere near ready for First grade

 

[girvie]

Not true They also pick up players that will fill a role for the club These sorts of players can do the job from a strong state competition where there is also an opportunity to strengthen local areas in league

The majority of clubs keep their better players at their own age level unless they are in first grade and give them the occasional game of Jersey Flegg or Premier League depending on their development

Such as which players being held back?

There are over 150 Under-20 players who have played Premier League this year. And over 75 Under-18s players who played Jersey Flegg or Premier League this year.

So I can’t see too many players that have been held back.

Jersey Flegg standard is already better than Premier League Introduction of the Queensland clubs and NZ

How can you say that?
A Premier League side would easily beat a Jersey Flegg side.

In comparison to Darius Boyd Joel Moon David Taylor Jarryd Hayne William Zillman Stuart Flanagan Brett Morris Luke Douglas Tony Caine Patrick Ah Van Shaun Foley Setaimata Sa? Its a no contest How many potential representative players in the first lot? Very few Quantity or Quality? The quantity can play in the third tier

But the current system allows players who are Under and Over 20 to play. It doesn’t stop any of the guys you have mentioned from coming through.

The other thing you have to look at which players have already been slated to play first grade Those who already have to work their way through can do it from the third tier while we get better quality football from the best clubs

If they have first grade potential why would you want them playing in the third tier? They should be playing in the second tier where there is a stronger competition.

So we should accept a poorer product and no television because players feel more comfortable in the current competition and because

Under-20s would be a poorer product than Premier League. I do think that Premier League should be on TV in NSW, like the Qld Cup is shown in Qld.

Your allegiance gets in the way of making an assessment Highlighted by the presumptions in the the rest of your post which includes information that none of us know

I would feel the same way no matter who I support. A lot of people agree that the competitions should stay the way they are. Look at the poll.

 

[Wicks]

IMO, forwards in particular need the step between Flegg and NRL that is PL to continue developing. The majority of Flegg forwards are nowhere near ready for First grade

Is that because the Roosters struggle to develop forwards

There are over 150 Under-20 players who have played Premier League this year. And over 75 Under-18s players who played Jersey Flegg or Premier League this year.

Those figures indicate the trend I was talking about in reference to more and more younger players playing in the second tier every year How many over age players in premier league five years ago compared to now?

I didnt say they were held back Clubs have policies about where players play Souths came out moreso than anyone else and said they will be playing them in their age group

Where were the potential superstars for the Bulldogs Panthers Knights Eagles Rabbits playing And with a few exceptions the Dragons Roosters Cronulla - Jersey Flegg

Parramatta Canberra Tigers had to mix their teams up because of where their development was and the talent coming from below

How can you say that? A Premier League side would easily beat a Jersey Flegg side.

You were talking about the strength of the competition The standard of football at Jersey Flegg level is superior Premier League has become very poor despite more young players The younger players outplay the more senior players often and they show their potential to surpass them

But the current system allows players who are Under and Over 20 to play. It doesn’t stop any of the guys you have mentioned from coming through.

Allows them to play in a poorer competition Few of the over age players you mentioned will be more than good first graders I didnt say anything about holding or stopping young players

If they have first grade potential why would you want them playing in the third tier? They should be playing in the second tier where there is a stronger competition.

You are confusing star potential and first grade potential I could throw up exactly the same argument if the situation was reversed but neither of us would be assessing the quality of the competition or the pathway to first grade

How is it that Jersey Flegg and Premier League are regarded as the development grounds when it is more likely to be the 16s and 18s in NSW and QLD where the best players are evaluated and signed to contracts?

Under-20s would be a poorer product than Premier League.

Under 20s is already a better product

A lot of people agree that the competitions should stay the way they are. Look at the poll.

Sure thats the way to assess whether something is good or not Comments here dont reveal very much Most are short and dont provide details Some just sound confused

Is change ever popular and would you expect anything different considering where the poll resides?

Does any NSW club currently oppose the move? What does that tell you? Have you seen the presentation made?

 

[girvie]

Those figures indicate the trend I was talking about in reference to more and more younger players playing in the second tier every year How many over age players in premier league five years ago compared to now?

I didnt say they were held back Clubs have policies about where players play Souths came out moreso than anyone else and said they will be playing them in their age group

What trend that you were talking about? You said the opposite which was: “The majority of clubs keep their better players at their own age level unless they are in first grade and give them the occasional game of Jersey Flegg or Premier League depending on their development”

Souths had more young guys step up to Premier league and from SG Ball to Flegg this year than most other teams. So I don’t understand what you are saying.

Where were the potential superstars for the Bulldogs Panthers Knights Eagles Rabbits playing And with a few exceptions the Dragons Roosters Cronulla - Jersey Flegg

Parramatta Canberra Tigers had to mix their teams up because of where their development was and the talent coming from below

Most of the potential superstars played in Premier League.
Bulldogs - McNichol, Fielder, Conn, Winitana, Karawana, Vaefaga
Panthers - Sammut, Peters, Moors, Bond
Knights - Mullen, McManus, Snowden, Walsh, Uate, Paterson
Rabbitohs - Talanoa, Gordon, Boston, Paea, Wynyard, Tuara, Firman

You were talking about the strength of the competition The standard of football at Jersey Flegg level is superior Premier League has become very poor despite more young players The younger players outplay the more senior players often and they show their potential to surpass them

Some young players do outplay the older players, but most of the players in Jersey Flegg would not be able to.
Jersey Flegg level is not superior. All the best players are promoted to Premier League and many of the players who are left only go on to play Jim Beam Cup/A-Grade or lower once they are too old for Flegg.
All the players in Premier League are better than Jim Beam Cup or A-Grade standard.

Allows them to play in a poorer competition Few of the over age players you mentioned will be more than good first graders I didnt say anything about holding or stopping young players

It is not a poorer competition. I have spoken to Flegg players who have stepped up to Premier League and they all say it is faster and tougher competition.

You are confusing star potential and first grade potential I could throw up exactly the same argument if the situation was reversed but neither of us would be assessing the quality of the competition or the pathway to first grade

How is it that Jersey Flegg and Premier League are regarded as the development grounds when it is more likely to be the 16s and 18s in NSW and QLD where the best players are evaluated and signed to contracts?

There are plenty of potential stars amongst those players who were named. If they are potential first graders they should not be discarded.

Flegg and Premier League is important for development because that is where the players spend the majority of their career before they play NRL. The Under-18s and Under-16s are short competitions over 12 weeks.

Sure thats the way to assess whether something is good or not Comments here dont reveal very much Most are short and dont provide details Some just sound confused

Is change ever popular and would you expect anything different considering where the poll resides?

Does any NSW club currently oppose the move? What does that tell you? Have you seen the presentation made?

It shows that a lot of people don't want it to happen. There are a lot of reasons listed in this thread saying why people are against it. But there aren't many reasons listed of why people are for it.

Most clubs haven’t publicly stated their opinion on this.

 

[brook]

IMO, forwards in particular need the step between Flegg and NRL that is PL to continue developing. The majority of Flegg forwards are nowhere near ready for First grade

Absolutely

Props in particular tend to mature later, although there are exceptions to the rule I don't think the average flegg-aged prop is ready for PL let alone first grade.

I think Balmain would have had as many flegg-aged players in PL than any other team this year (or at least bloody close) but the only younger forward who was able to hold down a PL spot for the majority of the year was Sam Moa and he is a future superstar (well Flanagan did too but hookers are a different matter altogether). This is despite the fact that our Flegg forwards were kicking butt all year, they just were not yet physically ready for the step up.

I'm a huge fan of the Jersey Flegg comp and tend to prefer it to PL but at the same time it is nowhere near the same standard, the PL comp is much tougher and faster, the step between the two levels is almost as big as the gap between PL and the NRL

 

[Jeffles]

Great point brook.

It seems to reinforce what I said before. This is less about having protecting the interests of player development and more about moving away from NSWRL control. No wonder Carr is so upset. Maybe he should have a look at himself.

 

[Wicks]

What trend that you were talking about?

I wouldnt call the older players deadwood They are looking at the trend in the age of debut players

Both quotes fit together because the overall trend is towards younger players but your claim to best 17 players is false outright

Souths had more young guys step up to Premier league and from SG Ball to Flegg this year than most other teams. So I don’t understand what you are saying.

Look at their team from week to week It was a poor approximation of a team with players that will never make it Sure they had players come up and play because of the number of injuries but its not their policy Do you need me to say it again? Souths have a policy to keep their young players together and so have other clubs depending on the stage of development of their players

Anyway its mainly irrelevant The best 17 players nor the best 17 potential players The players most likely to be influential in the NRL in years to come are not all chosen in Premier League

Most of the potential superstars played in Premier League.
Bulldogs - McNichol, Fielder, Conn, Winitana, Karawana, Vaefaga
Panthers - Sammut, Peters, Moors, Bond
Knights - Mullen, McManus, Snowden, Walsh, Uate, Paterson
Rabbitohs - Talanoa, Gordon, Boston, Paea, Wynyard, Tuara, Firman

As you pointed out I said

give them the occasional game of Jersey Flegg or Premier League depending on their development

Some young players do outplay the older players, but most of the players in Jersey Flegg would not be able to.

Not one part of this is about the average Its about the best players and the best competition/product possible

Jersey Flegg level is not superior. All the best players are promoted to Premier League It is not a poorer competition. I have spoken to Flegg players who have stepped up to Premier League and they all say it is faster and tougher competition.

You are confused too The resulting standard of football between all under 20s is better than what we get at Premier League If there is ever more than the scores of Premier League mentioned an ex-player coach or official is saying how poor Premier League is and how much of a better product Jersey Flegg is You cant ignore it

And you know the main reason? Because players know what there position is and where they are going If they are improving in Jersey Flegg they are a shot at the NRL and a good contract If they are improving in the Premier League and have not been highlighted as a standout they are at the whim of the salary cap This non football can reside below Jersey Flegg

I dont think you realise how much better the product will be when the Queensland and New Zealand players join in on Jersey Flegg

There are plenty of potential stars amongst those players who were named. If they are potential first graders they should not be discarded.

No theres not Dont kid yourself The quality of the squads were good up until 2000/2001 but take a look at the 1st division grand final in 2002 Thurston and Maitua who had been chased since they were young and Ben Ross who was also signed prior to 20 Theres a couple of fringe first graders and the rest are elsewhere

You would get more in another year but they are few and far between Look at the Jersey Flegg teams of 2002 and so forth in comparison to what became Premier League and the minor premiership rounds themselves Premier League was stronger in the year Jersey Flegg was shortened but otherwise the product has gone downhill Younger player have replaced older players of average talent and this trend will continue

Do you have the answer to how many over age players in premier league five years ago compared to now? Or how many Premier League or Colt games players in the Australian team played? Both results would be smaller as time has passed

Flegg and Premier League is important for development because that is where the players spend the majority of their career before they play NRL. The Under-18s and Under-16s are short competitions over 12 weeks.

This doesnt prove your point about keeping the system the way it is rather than reversing it to allow for a clearer pathway for star players The 16s and 18s in NSW and QLD is still where the best players are evaluated and sign contracts

It shows that a lot of people don't want it to happen. There are a lot of reasons listed in this thread saying why people are against it. But there aren't many reasons listed of why people are for it.

It shows that people here dont want it to happen No guide at all to what should be the result

Most clubs haven’t publicly stated their opinion on this.

There have been unofficial polls stating what I have said

If they are going to get this kind of response better they decide for themselves and not go public Dont look to the fans to abandon what they know even if it is the best for the better young players and for the game to have another sellable product

 

[2 True Blues]

If u/20 is introduced, there will be no Premier League.

This makes it harder, if not impossible, for late bloomers to make it to the NRL. Guys that Matthew Head, Fuiui Moimoi, Charlie Tonga etc, didn't debut untill their mid 20's.

If this competition is introduced, players who don't hit their strides untill their mid 20's will be lost.

Premier League has no age limit and allows late bloomers to blossem. Keep it!

:thumn True !!!!

And how can a 19 year get more experience ( preperation ) from playing other inexperienced 19 year olds, when compared to the experience he would get playing against other guys who have actually had a taste of the NRL. :crazy: :sarcasm: :crazy:

Makes NO sense at all for the reasons they are giving for this comp. I am thinking there has to be some other form of motive for this idea. Don't know why or what, but surely it is $$$$$$ related.

 

[Wicks]

The best players from sg ball and jersey flegg already train with first grade a year or two before their debut in first grade Some spend offseasons in the full time squads

 

[innsaneink]

Dunno if its been mentioned or not, apparently all clubs bar Brisbane are in favour of this move.

 

[Freddo]

if it aint broke dont fix it

and didnt we used to have an under 21s comp called presidants cup along time ago

 

[2 True Blues]

Dunno if its been mentioned or not, apparently all clubs bar Brisbane are in favour of this move.

Says who mate ???? :roll:

So called preparing a 19 yr old talented player by playing against another one. Then throw them straight into the NRL now that they have been 'nurtured' by this GREAT competition. MMMMmmmmm :crazy: :sarcasm: :crazy: =;

 

[greg]

No premier league means no Bluebags, means the NRL under 20s can get @#$!

 

[2 True Blues]

No premier league means no Bluebags, means the NRL under 20s can get @#$!

You come off a nightwork as well as me brother....LMAO........There is actually more to it, but love that reply. Vote on the poll though GREG !!!!

;-) :lol:

 

[2 True Blues]

:crazy: :lol: :lol:

Dunno if its been mentioned or not, apparently all clubs bar Brisbane are in favour of this move.

Maybe the Roosters aren't ?????????????????

A great article this one from the Roosters forum !!!!

Anderson to shift Anasta


CHRIS Anderson has dropped his first bombshell as Sydney Roosters coach, revealing he will shift Braith Anasta to lock next season.
Anderson has told of his renewed passion for the game before unveiling his plans to turn the Roosters into an NRL powerhouse again.
The 54 year old said his bid to revamp the Roosters would begin by working with Anasta.
"I think Braith has been misunderstood," the former Australia coach said.
"I know the kid, I had him on tour, and I know he loves his football, but I think people have tried to paint him into something he's not.
"The perception is that he's this ball player and he's going to do what (Brad Fittler) did, but that's not him.
"He's not the bloke who's going to guide you around the park, I think that's a lot of responsibility to put on the bloke. He's more of a lock than a five-eighth, it's an ideal position for him.
"He's a big, strong kid, he's a got a really good running game and he can offload the ball. I want to let him get on and play his own style of football and be comfortable with his footy."
Just moments after signing his two-year deal with the Roosters, Anderson made his intentions clear: He required experienced forwards to lead the club's outstanding juniors.
"FOR QUALITY KIDS TO COME THROUGH YOU NEED A PLATFORM FOR THEM TO WORK FROM, AND I THINK THAT COMES FROM A BIG, STRONG PACK OF FORWARDS," Anderson said. ***( WILL B GETTIN THAT IN THE UNDER 20 COMP...........
"One place they probably didn't have a lot of depth last season was front row so we've brought some front rowers (Danny Nutley and Chris Beattie) to the place.
Anderson's Bondi move was a shock, even to the man himself. He takes over the Roosters three years after his tumultuous sacking as head coach of the Sharks.

"The last few years were tough, being in not such a great environment it made me angry," Anderson said of his time at the Sharks.

"I think the fact I've been out of the game for three years has been good for me. I watched the game from afar without watching it as a club coach. I enjoyed it.

"You get a different vision of the game, and the game has changed to when I last coached. I think I'm a better coach for the break. Being able to watch it dispassionately has given me that edge. I've been able to put a new game plan together.

"We'll have a new style. I think the flat style is gone."

Next year marks the Roosters' centenary season - their most momentous since their inception in 1908.
Anderson admits he's under immense pressure to deliver results.

"The pressure for success is there and (club powerbroker) Nick (Politis) made it clear that they demand success," Anderson said.
"I think that's a good thing at any club. Nick's shown in the past that he's prepared to do everything within his ability to get success. I like what that is about."

The Roosters recorded their worst performance in 12 years in 2006, finishing 14th.
But Anderson said they would make a bold bid for next year's title.

"Our goal is to win the comp. I'd love to win it in the 100th year," Anderson said.
"I think if you start at anything less then you're underselling yourself."

The Roosters have had a problem at halfback, with Brett Finch, Jamie Soward and Josh Lewis rotated without much success last season.
Anderson indicated that "Mitchell Pearce" was about to enter the equation.

"They've all got a big wrap on (Pearce)," Anderson said.
"I've watched him play a couple of games and he's played some good footy. I think he's a bloke we need to fast track."

At the end of 2009, Fittler will be anointed head coach.

"Every time you work with someone you hope that you're grooming them to go on and be a better coach," Anderson said.

"They said they want me to groom Freddy for the job and that's great. I don't want to coach forever."

------

fittler head coach for 2009 ????
*****************************************************
Bringing the youth into it as has always been done, and still should always be done. f**k whoever that farkin low life dog is that is trying to f**k our sport as usual for dollars in his own pocket. :x