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National Under 20s - your opinion?

girvie

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
4,871
I am interested to know who here thinks that a National Under-20s competition should be formed? And who thinks that the Premier League and Jersey Flegg competitions should be left the way they are?


I think that they need to leave it as a Premier League and Jersey Flegg competition because:
  • Premier League is stronger than a National Under-20s competition would be and this means that there is less of a leap between NRL and Premier League.
  • By playing in Premier League young players get the opportunity to play with experienced open age players that set an example and that they can learn from. This helps the young players to develop.
  • Clubs have the option of promoting a teenage player to Premier League if they are good enough. With a National Under-20s competition that option would be taken away.
  • There will be a bigger step up between the third tier competition and NRL for those older players who are contracted to NRL clubs.
  • There are plenty of older players who haven’t played NRL yet who would lose the opportunity to play in the second tier and therefore they would have a lower chance of stepping up to NRL.
  • Foundation clubs North Sydney, Newtown, Balmain and Western Suburbs will be demoted from Premier League to a metropolitan cup. In Queensland the traditional clubs will be demoted to the third tier.
  • North Sydney, Balmain, Western Suburbs and Central Coast will lose their Under-20s teams.
  • A National Under-20s competition would increase costs for clubs.
  • The young players would be on the road more often making it more difficult to complete study, work or apprenticeships.
 

tigesup

Juniors
Messages
45
Agree with everything you say, the last point especially.

The clubs are always saying that they want their young players to prepare themselves for life after football then go and put more pressure on them.

I prefer the way it is setup now as I'm sure most do. There are going to be lot of young players turned from the game by this and this isn't what the NRL should be promoting.

Whilever the clubs run the competition these decisions will be made to suit themselves and stuff everyone else.
 

The Preacher

First Grade
Messages
7,193
There's not enough U/20'sfor a "national" competition. As I stated on another thread, how are N.Qld, Broncos, Gold Coast and Melbourne all going to have competitive sides.
If Central Coast Rip kept getting belted, how the hell can anyone say that local juniors from these areas, other than Brisbane I suppose, possibly reach the levels of more or less seasoned rep players that have come through the Harry Matts and Ball comps. It wont work.
 

Jeffles

Bench
Messages
3,412
I'm strongly against the comp for the reasons highlighted above and in the other thread about the Saints and Carr. All the momentum for this comp is coming from NSW based clubs and the NRL itself. They want less ties with the archaic NSWRL administrative system.
 

brook

First Grade
Messages
5,065
Against, for all the reasons already mentioned.

The current system not only provides a clear pathway to the NRL for the best of the youngsters but it also gives the same chance to move onto first grade to the later bloomers. I do not believe the average player is ready for first grade at 20 years old, the teenage superstars get so much attention for that exact reason - they are not the norm by any means.
 

Twizzle

Administrator
Staff member
Messages
153,904
The Preacher said:
There's not enough U/20'sfor a "national" competition. As I stated on another thread, how are N.Qld, Broncos, Gold Coast and Melbourne all going to have competitive sides.
If Central Coast Rip kept getting belted, how the hell can anyone say that local juniors from these areas, other than Brisbane I suppose, possibly reach the levels of more or less seasoned rep players that have come through the Harry Matts and Ball comps. It wont work.

exactly

more importantly, how are the clubs gonna be able to afford to fly these kids around and provide accomodation evey week

their travel and accomodation expenses just doubled
 

Twizzle

Administrator
Staff member
Messages
153,904
Another thing

If we only have NRL and an under 20s what becomes of the Club Championship for PL,Flegg, Ball and HM.

I'd hate to see this type of thing dissappear.
 

Freak2

Juniors
Messages
1,444
I think a national U20's comp makes sense, however I would suggest that each team be allowed to play 4 overaged players per game, and I think the age group should be 21.
 

Big-Steve

Juniors
Messages
663
Jeffles said:
I'm strongly against the comp for the reasons highlighted above and in the other thread about the Saints and Carr. All the momentum for this comp is coming from NSW based clubs and the NRL itself. They want less ties with the archaic NSWRL administrative system.
Well they should have thought about that before they started stuffing the comp about!

It's the NRL's fault nobody elses that the NRL and NSW comps no longer match. It's the NRL clubs that fail to or don't want to comprehend because of finances what is needed below NRL. The NRL are still in my oppion the worse administration the League has ever had. They continue to work towards making life easy for them without looking at the good of the game as a whole and without ever taking responsibility for what they have created.
 

Jeffles

Bench
Messages
3,412
The NSWRL needs to have a good look at itself too. If it was doing a good job, we wouldn't see the clubs pushing for alternatives.
 
Messages
14,139
The main reason I am dead against the National Under 20s comp is because the Queensland Cup relies in the links its clubs have with the Qld NRL clubs and the Storm. A national U20s comp would probably mean the end of the feeder clubs and the Qld Cup would be in big trouble. The u20s comp is not worth destroying what I believe is the best second tier comp in Australia. It's only a cost saving excercise because NRL clubs don't want to pay for a Premier League side.
 

roopy

Referee
Messages
27,980
I'm in favour of the national under 20s comp because it will be a viable product for pay TV - where PL is not.
PL is seen as a second grade comp and is hard to sell - but the under 20s will be seen as the best players of the future playing a bright and open form of the game - and people will want to watch it.
I also think the Newcastle and Illawarra comps will benefit heaps from having Knights and Dragons players boosting the quality of these comps - and that will be a good thing in the long run.
 
Messages
14,139
roopy said:
I also think the Newcastle and Illawarra comps will benefit heaps from having Knights and Dragons players boosting the quality of these comps - and that will be a good thing in the long run.
Maybe then clubs in those comps can stop stripping the best players from the real country clubs.
 

Frenzy.

Post Whore
Messages
51,393
girvie said:
  • Premier League is stronger than a National Under-20s competition would be and this means that there is less of a leap between NRL and Premier League.
I would dispute that. Premier League is full of "parked" players who are seeing out the end of their careers. It's a wierd comp because it has these players yet at the same time is seen as a stepping stone for younger guys. It's in limbo.

  • By playing in Premier League young players get the opportunity to play with experienced open age players that set an example and that they can learn from. This helps the young players to develop.
Untrue. Clubs will be allowed to us a nominal representation of over 20 year old year old players. I am led to believe this number will be 8. That obviously will be the balance of each club's top 25. These will be the experienced open age players you say will be missing.
  • Clubs have the option of promoting a teenage player to Premier League if they are good enough. With a National Under-20s competition that option would be taken away.
The progression will become more logical with the new comp. U/16 (Matties), U/18 (Ball) into the new National U/20s. It provides a better pathway for elite juniors without them having to get past a bunch of deadwood PL players that will never see the light of the NRL again. They get the advantage of playing with Top 25 players and are less likely to leave their "home" clubs looking for greener pastures as they won't be hindered by as many retirement home footballers.
  • There will be a bigger step up between the third tier competition and NRL for those older players who are contracted to NRL clubs.
Realistically though these older players are the deadwood I am talking about. They will be tucked away in JB Cup and used as fill ins for the U/20 comp as injuries occur. Let's face it, a large percentage of current PL players have peaked and are on the decline with little liklihood of becoming regular NRL players anyway. The cream will rise to the top with the new National comp. 8 elite top 25 players and the rest elite juniors.
  • There are plenty of older players who haven’t played NRL yet who would lose the opportunity to play in the second tier and therefore they would have a lower chance of stepping up to NRL.
Define older. If players haven't "made it" by the time they are 24-25 they are not going to in most cases. If you are 28 and playing in PL waiting for an improbable regular NRL spot you are dreaming. It's like running second in a 2 man race. You're also last, and going nowhere.
  • Foundation clubs North Sydney, Newtown, Balmain and Western Suburbs will be demoted from Premier League to a metropolitan cup. In Queensland the traditional clubs will be demoted to the third tier.
Well none of them are supplying an NRL team are they. The harsh reality (cons flame proof suit) is that they are no longer needed. The better players will be looked after because all those clubs are feeders and the senior clubs still have to put those excess Top Squad players somewhere.
  • North Sydney, Balmain, Western Suburbs and Central Coast will lose their Under-20s teams.
As above
  • A National Under-20s competition would increase costs for clubs.
No it will decrease the costs. One of the aims of the comp is to foster each areas juniors and have them stay put. Therefore salary cap exempt until included in the top 25. The comp may well mean no more need for the second tier cap (save $300,000 - that'll be the travel). Juniors cost less to pay and the reality is that clubs are paying millions in salaries to run PL teams. Some will say this is not so but it is. Clubs can pay those outside the top 25 whatever they want. It's only problematic if they appear in the NRL when their payments then have to go in the main cap. An example is at Cronulla 2 PL forwards were on $200k each. That's the second tier cap blown on 2 players. Result - they rarely saw first grade. 1 game in 1 year for one of them and 3 games in 2 years for the other. If there are no injuries (theoretically) then 8 of your PL side are being paid from the main cap. That means initially at least 9 have to be paid contract money. Juniors will command less money. This will be offset by travel of course but this will be the only "real" cost that is extra. Gear, insurance etc would of been paid for anyway.

  • The young players would be on the road more often making it more difficult to complete study, work or apprenticeships.
They'll be professional footballers. They can study part time. There is an advantage to it in that it will mean their time is taken up in work (footy) and study leaving less time for the shenanigans players are increasingly getting up to. School age kids will likely go into Sports highs which understand the demands and uni age players will be working around uni like the rest of the population has to. No big deal.
 

joshreading

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
1,720
I am all for a National under 20's however I think a total strategy needs to be worked so QLD Cup and NSW lower clubs can thrive still rather than be isolated from the 'pyramid' of sorts.

This might seems like the NRL brand taking over in some regards but like the AFL, NFL, NHL etc. that brand is virtually what people see as the sport. It is that brand that lends credibility.

My re-sorted comps.

NRL - same as present (with new teams in the future)

NRL2 - Qld Cup, NSWRL with NO exact NRL teams (eg. NO Penrith but they could partner with Coffs and Pt Macqaurie to field a North Coast Pathers team) , Bartercard Cup, PNGRL Sp City Cup.

Each would become a conference and play for their respective Cups and then the top teams play off for the NRL 2 Championship. Each team in this League could be effectively paternering with and NRL club as opposed to being another team of an NRL club. (thus savings costs for NRL sides and opportunity to lower clubs with money)

NRL Young Guns - Under 20's - replicas of the NRL teams - eg. Storm from Melbourne in not Qld Cup side. Also the NRL should help fund a team for Perth so that when they enter the juniors are more up to scratch.

Just my thoughts.
 

Wicks

Juniors
Messages
457
Agree with Frenzy and his points I wouldnt call the older players deadwood They are looking at the trend in the age of debut players

Young athletes are going to be drawn to the exposure of the new competition
 

Spitty

Juniors
Messages
1,113
I like an under 20's comp where the remaining 8 players from the clubs top 25 are included.
 

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