New State Cups Announce

[siv]

Nrl.com

STATE COMPETITIONS IN 2018

The ARL Commission has approved the implementation of 16 team NSW and QLD State Competitions from 2018, replacing the National Youth Competition after next season.

This is part of a new pathway program for elite #NRL players.

“The new model is designed to provide a clearer pathway for elite junior players aiming to play in the NRL,” NRL Head of Football Brian Canavan.

“We believe this is the best way to expand the game in the short term – and create a sustainable competition structure for the long term.”

“We have been concerned for some time about the welfare issues affecting many young players struggling to cope with the pressures of the NYC.

“This model will enable more juniors to stay at home, rather than having to move away from their families, to play Rugby League."

Under the proposed new model:
> The NRL is working with the RLPA to increase the number of players that clubs can include in their full time squad. Those who fail to make the final NRL squad will return to play in the State Cup.
> Salary limitations for State Cup and the State Youth Cup are also being discussed with the RLPA.

 

[Marlins]

Does this mean they are increasing both the nsw cup & Qld cup to 16 teams each

 

[adamkungl]

Wonder how the expansions will look. Hopefully the NSWRL take control of what they want their comp to look like, where they want clubs to be based, rather than have it decided on the whims of tight-arsed Sydney clubs looking to plonk their reserves in the most convenient place for them.

I'd like to see something like this:

6 sydney
norths (souths)
newtown (cronulla)
wenty (parra)
canterbury
penrith
wests

5 country
illawarra (dragons)
wyong (roosters)
newcastle
albury (canberra)
gosford (manly)

5 interstate
auckland
wellington
perth
adelaide
fiji

 

[siv]

In theory or just setting a strategy for the competition size limit

So does this mean Manly's u20s will be run by the Blacktown Workers club as well ??

And the return.of a Newtown u20s team.instead of a Cronulla u20s team ?

 

[CC_Roosters]

In theory or just setting a strategy for the competition size limit

So does this mean Manly's u20s will be run by the Blacktown Workers club as well ??

And the return.of a Newtown u20s team.instead of a Cronulla u20s team ?

Honestly, the press release and related stories pose more questions than answers. I am still not 100% clear on the "new competition" as they put it. Is it simply a re-branding of the current state cups with expansion up to 16 teams over time or is it a seperate competition specifically to replace the under 20 and run in parallel to the state cups? Are they saying the competitions will exclude NRL branding? Will the state U20 competiton be run directly by the NSW NRL clubs or will it be aligned to the "new competition"?

Also the theme behind the changes is to keep kids at home longer, so if they hold to that then it should see less sydney based sides in the "new competition" and more regional sides at this and U20 level. Otherwise, we will just see a continuation of the current club policy were the NSW cup is composed of mainly sydney metro sides and focused mostly on western sydney. The depressing feel i get from this is that the likes of manly are throwing all of their eggs into the blacktown basket which will house its "reserves" and under 20's, therefore the entire north shore/beaches will stop at u18's then only have the bears as the next level.

Massively disappointing that they have not been able to get Fiji into the competition next season, surely they saw the urgency required in getting it up and running sooner rather than later with Fijian union fielding a side in the NRC next year as well as the cashed up pacific islands super rugby bid making headlines

EDIT
http://www.nrl.com/door-open-for-both-toowoomba-and-png-20s/tabid/10874/newsid/102633/default.aspx

Looks like some if not all of the expansion in the second tier will not take place until 2022. If that is the case it will have been nearly 15 years since the game will have seen professional expansion with the Gold coast. Thats 15 years of stagnation the game not afford, i have no doubt the AFL will have parachuted more teams into NSW or QLD by then and the a-league will likely have add sides in these states as well.

 

[alien]

Wonder how the expansions will look. Hopefully the NSWRL take control of what they want their comp to look like, where they want clubs to be based, rather than have it decided on the whims of tight-arsed Sydney clubs looking to plonk their reserves in the most convenient place for them.

I'd like to see something like this:

6 sydney
norths (souths)
newtown (cronulla)
wenty (parra)
canterbury
penrith
wests

5 country
illawarra (dragons)
wyong (roosters)
newcastle
albury (canberra)
gosford (manly)

5 interstate
auckland
wellington
perth
adelaide
fiji

I'd rather the Rabbitohs have their own NSW Cup team, but I believe adding Fiji, Christchurch, Wellington, etc. would be a good thing.

The NRL clubs in NSW should be allowed to have their own teams in NSW Cup, NSW Under 20s, NSW Under 18s, NSW Under 16s, but that doesn't mean we can't add teams from Christchurch, Wellington, Fiji, Coffs Harbour, etc.

So for example, the NSW Cup could look like:

South Sydney Rabbitohs
Sydney Roosters
Manly Warringah Sea Eagles
Wests Tigers
Parramatta Eels
Penrith Panthers
North Sydney - Central Coast Bears
Canterbury Bankstown Bulldogs
Canberra Raiders
St. George Illawarra Dragons
Newcastle Knights
Cronulla Sutherland Sharks
Auckland
Wellington
Christchurch
Fiji

There are 16 teams there.

P.S. Obviously you wouldn't have have teams from outside NSW/ACT in the NSW Under 18s comp and the NSW Under 16s comp. Only in the NSW Cup and NSW Under 20s would you have teams from Fiji, Auckland, Wellington, and Christchurch.

 

[greg]

I'd rather the Rabbitohs have their own NSW Cup team, but I believe adding Fiji, Christchurch, Wellington, etc. would be a good thing.

The NRL clubs in NSW should be allowed to have their own teams in NSW Cup, NSW Under 20s, NSW Under 18s, NSW Under 16s, but that doesn't mean we can't add teams from Christchurch, Wellington, Fiji, Coffs Harbour, etc.

So for example, the NSW Cup could look like:

South Sydney Rabbitohs
Sydney Roosters
Manly Warringah Sea Eagles
Wests Tigers
Parramatta Eels
Penrith Panthers
North Sydney - Central Coast Bears
Canterbury Bankstown Bulldogs
Canberra Raiders
St. George Illawarra Dragons
Newcastle Knights
Cronulla Sutherland Sharks
Auckland
Wellington
Christchurch
Fiji

There are 16 teams there.

P.S. Obviously you wouldn't have have teams from outside NSW/ACT in the NSW Under 18s comp and the NSW Under 16s comp. Only in the NSW Cup and NSW Under 20s would you have teams from Fiji, Auckland, Wellington, and Christchurch.

mmmmm.....I'm battling to find Newtown in your lineup. Surely we have to protect our traditions a bit. A big part of that is having Sydney represented by famous old brands, Newtown, Norths, Wests (magpies) as well as go regional. But you want Souths in there, its not enough you having two teams already in the NRL namely Wests and Souths and whoever else you will support next year.

 

[paulmac]

mmmmm.....I'm battling to find Newtown in your lineup. Surely we have to protect our traditions a bit. A big part of that is having Sydney represented by famous old brands, Newtown, Norths, Wests (magpies) as well as go regional. But you want Souths in there, its not enough you having two teams already in the NRL namely Wests and Souths and whoever else you will support next year.

I agree with most of what Alien said above but also think that Newtown,Norths & Illawarra have to be in.
Another thing,people in Fiji are more likely to be interested in Fiji v Parra than Fiji v Wenty.Especially if the NRL are trying to grow their brand there.

 

[siv]

I can't justify NZ clubs in a NSW State Cup

They talk about saving costs but then add all of those travel costs

Can see how a $156k of U20s grant per 32 clubs, if the NSWRL passes it all on, will work as its half what 16 NRL clubs get today

Also what will happen to clubs like Newtown, Mounties, Wenty, Blacktown, Wyong who don't have a U20 U18 or U16 team

Or clubs like Easts, St George, Mounties, Newtown, Wenty, Blacktown who are really one club teams with no districts

The devil is in the detail

 

[adamkungl]

f**k Mounties and Blacktown off back to RM Cup tbh. They have no place in a state comp.

 

[siv]

I think the NSWRL should introduce a criteria for teams to compete at State Cup level

- represent a District of 6 or more junior clubs
- ability to field a u20 u18 and u16 team
- ability to generate $1 mil non NSWRL grant revenue

 

[alien]

Also what will happen to clubs like Newtown, Mounties, Wenty, Blacktown, Wyong who don't have a U20 U18 or U16 team

They can play in the Ron Massey Cup (third grade).

 

[alien]

I think the NSWRL should introduce a criteria for teams to compete at State Cup level

- represent a District of 6 or more junior clubs
- ability to field a u20 u18 and u16 team
- ability to generate $1 mil non NSWRL grant revenue

Lol, Roosters wouldn't pass the criteria then.

 

[CC_Roosters]

Looking at who is presently in the NSW and Qld cups i cannot see how they make this 32 team structure work with 2 affiliates per NRL club without some serious changes in behaviour from NRL clubs. Currently the NSWRL clubs are reluctant to send their fringe first graders beyond the borders of sydney metro so if the powers that be are going to ask them to choose an affiliate in both competitions, its pretty obvious they would just load up the side closest to home.

If there are 12 sides currently in the NSW cup + the obvious candidates who have made noise already in NZ2 and Fiji, that leaves 2 spots for NSW regional sides. I beleive that the North coast, North west, Central west/far west and South west should all be represented at this level if they are serious about tidying up the pathways and providing a clear path for juniors in the bush so they do not have to leave home. For this to happen its bye bye to some of the sydney A-grade sides in the competition which i believe needs to happen anyway- Blacktown and mounties! And this is forgetting the theoretical inclusion of a Perth side.

I think they are doing this all wrong tbh. Blow up the NRL and state leagues and start again with a pyramid type structure, promotion and relegation and a loan transfer system to get away from this affiliate business i.e english football style. Let everywhere that wants or deserves professional teams have it!

 

[adamkungl]

Lol, Roosters wouldn't pass the criteria then.

I doubt we want to run a full reserve grade team anyway. We don't now so i'd say it's even less likely under the proposed new structure.

 

[johnny plath]

Looking at who is presently in the NSW and Qld cups i cannot see how they make this 32 team structure work with 2 affiliates per NRL club without some serious changes in behaviour from NRL clubs. Currently the NSWRL clubs are reluctant to send their fringe first graders beyond the borders of sydney metro so if the powers that be are going to ask them to choose an affiliate in both competitions, its pretty obvious they would just load up the side closest to home.

If there are 12 sides currently in the NSW cup + the obvious candidates who have made noise already in NZ2 and Fiji, that leaves 2 spots for NSW regional sides. I beleive that the North coast, North west, Central west/far west and South west should all be represented at this level if they are serious about tidying up the pathways and providing a clear path for juniors in the bush so they do not have to leave home. For this to happen its bye bye to some of the sydney A-grade sides in the competition which i believe needs to happen anyway- Blacktown and mounties! And this is forgetting the theoretical inclusion of a Perth side.

I think they are doing this all wrong tbh. Blow up the NRL and state leagues and start again with a pyramid type structure, promotion and relegation and a loan transfer system to get away from this affiliate business i.e english football style. Let everywhere that wants or deserves professional teams have it!

The thing giving me the shits with this is the spin and bullshit around welfare, decentralising, and staying at home. Unless some strict anti-movement laws exist kids will still be moving. If the storm id a kid from Central Qld, guess what, he'll be moving to the Sunshine Coast - thats what happens now and thats what will continue to happen. If Parramatta id a Brisbane kid - he'll be moving to Sydney. Under this model, if you think the Storm will only be developing kids who are growing up on the Sunshine Coast and ignoring all the other talent around your dreaming. Kids want to chase their dream, and the serious ones will go where they have to. Stop this bullshit about it being about the kids, because in reality nothing has changed except we will now have two weaker comps for the elite, rather than one strong one.

this is from the NRL website:
http://www.nrl.com/queensland-open-to-nsw-invasion/tabid/10874/newsid/102643/default.aspx

"They were disheartened. They thought they'd missed out. They went from wearing an NRL badge to wearing an Intrust Super Cup badge again and that had a big impact on those kids.

"We always thought to line the pathway up and keep the players at home, keep them in their Intrust Super Cup kit as long as we could, made a significant difference to that."

Walters, Cowboys coach Paul Green and Titans coach Neil Henry all spoke in favour of the restructure with Henry believing those stand-out teens capable of playing NRL will be given early exposure to the senior state competitions.

"They are the true pathway through for the younger players anyway and they can get a mixture playing with the older players," Henry said. "The stronger that we make those second tier competitions the better the comp's going to be.

"There are a bunch of players that at a young age have got the ability to step up and play [NRL] and I think that will still happen.

"You'll fast-track some of your younger players – your 18 and 19-year-olds. They'd be looking at playing Queensland Cup and NSW Cup at an early age, not staying in the 20s competition and once that's a valid pathway that will happen a bit more often."

Hell, this is exactly how it works now, nothing is changing. All they need to do is explain to kids in NYC that the next step in your journey will be State League NOT nrl, and expectations and goals are adjusted. The best under 20s are already fast tracked to State cup to develop. Kids in Cowboys system will be playing in Mackay, Townsville, or Cairns...just like they do now. The spread of clubs CANT accommodate every kid, so kids will be moving to chase a dream.

Is there any real evidence to support the welfare arguments being spun... because if its real I don't see how a re-badging exercise fixes that.. to me its just a play on the heartstrings to justify the change.

 

[siv]

Only thing that will change is the return of progression through the grades

U16s to U18s to U20s to RG

But there is a growing gap between U20 and RG.

I already see the need for a U22 level

 

[alien]

Ok after reading more into it, I think they are making a mistake. I think they should keep the NYC how it is, so the Under 20s level remains strong. Having double the teams just makes that level weaker, which is why I believe there should also be a proper Reserve Grade comp that has every NRL club in it. NSW Cup and QLD Cup should still exist, but they should be third grade comps.

 

[franklin2323]

Looking at who is presently in the NSW and Qld cups i cannot see how they make this 32 team structure work with 2 affiliates per NRL club without some serious changes in behaviour from NRL clubs. Currently the NSWRL clubs are reluctant to send their fringe first graders beyond the borders of sydney metro so if the powers that be are going to ask them to choose an affiliate in both competitions, its pretty obvious they would just load up the side closest to home.

If there are 12 sides currently in the NSW cup + the obvious candidates who have made noise already in NZ2 and Fiji, that leaves 2 spots for NSW regional sides. I beleive that the North coast, North west, Central west/far west and South west should all be represented at this level if they are serious about tidying up the pathways and providing a clear path for juniors in the bush so they do not have to leave home. For this to happen its bye bye to some of the sydney A-grade sides in the competition which i believe needs to happen anyway- Blacktown and mounties! And this is forgetting the theoretical inclusion of a Perth side.

I think they are doing this all wrong tbh. Blow up the NRL and state leagues and start again with a pyramid type structure, promotion and relegation and a loan transfer system to get away from this affiliate business i.e english football style. Let everywhere that wants or deserves professional teams have it!

How will the 2 per team work? Say a team like Newcastle? They will need to ship players off to Sydney or Brisbane? What if Panthers and another team want a team from Bathurst/Dubbo in? Can they share? so confusing

 

[siv]

How will the 2 per team work? Say a team like Newcastle? They will need to ship players off to Sydney or Brisbane? What if Panthers and another team want a team from Bathurst/Dubbo in? Can they share? so confusing

Qld Cup have NRL teams share players across 3 teams

You nominate your prefered club

Benji is struggling with choosing his Qld Cup feeder club at the moment