new TV deal brings in millions for SL & guarantees expansion

[cumberlandsashes81]

I'd suggest that the limited regional appeal of RL, drawing viewers disproportionately from around the M62 corridor as opposed to a more even spread across the country, and the lower income working class demographic of RL audiences would play at least some part in it. Advertisers want their ads to sell their products across the entire country and to people more likely to be able to afford to actually buy those products. Sports that appeal to wider geographic areas thus justifying the cost of national advertising as opposed to cheaper regional advertising and/or sports that appeal to demographics with higher disposal income will be therefore more valuable to television executives.

Leigh.

Isn't this just the same tired old stereotype / excuse used to undersell and undervalue RL in the media? While I'm sure it's a prejudice held by plenty of people in positions of power and influence I'm pretty sure it's about as accurate as the prejudicial "Westie Bogan" stereotype we've put up with here in Australia since 1908.

That stereotype has been comprehensively debunked in Australia -- especially since the release of that survey (sure someone has a ready link to it?) which showed no significant demographical difference between supporters of RU and RL.

 

[nadera78]

We all know the truth of the matter, but those in influential positions don't even want to know about it. They have a stereotyped image of RL and that's it. They aren't interested in facts. Like i said before, it's similar to the way they treat white, working class men.

How to challenge those stereotypes in a meaningful and effective way is a bit of a difficult question.

 

[dibviking]

Will all due respect mate, widnes are no chance have nearly gone to the wall.
Face facts the game has to expand outside of the north sad but true, toulouse are more financially stable than widnes at present not owned by a sugar daddy.
Facts are the only way widnes can get to superleague is overturn there 9 point penalty & win nl1.
The rumours are very strong that both will get in australia leading player manager stated it was out of the 2 expansion sides & salford who stadium is way behind.
Also why would there be MM in the sl draw & The lions breaking up one reason : Celtic.
While have heard for a while now the toulouse president split the beans they are in a a local french function that they are in.
The third reason lewis is geniune about expansion bringing in more teams from heartland is not expansion of the sport harsh but true.
Dont worry about the guidelines both toulouse & celtic are very much among the favourites.
I am a little sick of the englsh cynical view last i checked they had not beaten australia in 50 years in a series so the bagging of the french i see on totalrl.com is a little unjustified considering the progression of there national team over the last 4 years.

Calm down Bruce you`ll give yourself a hernia!

Im just going off the criteria the rfl have given out, if you`ve read it which im sure you have because your all clued up you will see that Celtic have absolutely no chance of getting a franchise this time round.
Im all up for expansion but you cant just parachute a club into superleague with not much foundations to go on, they should be in NL1 for a few yrs 1st.

At Widnes we are financially stable with a backer who has just sold his business for £23m, i know its a sugar daddy but what about Wire Huddersfield and Wigan? should we exclude them for having sugar daddys? Not many clubs make a profit you no mate if any! Saints have just recorded a loss of £250k in a season where they won every comp they couldve played in and have said there will be a bad loss this yr.

Also the applications for a franchise have to be in by feb which is before a ball has even been kicked in NL1 so it doesnt matter where we finish as long as its the top 8 which wont be hard.

THE SUPERLEAGUE CRITERIA
clubs will score a point for each of the following criteria satisfy.

1) A stadium capacity of at least 12000

2) An average crowd of 10000 or more.

3) An average crowd that fills more than 40% of a clubs stadium capacity

4) A turnover of at least £4million per annum

5) Solvency, in accordance with accounting definitions of solvency, although this can be satisfied if there is a written owners guarantee of the clubs debt

6) A reasonable playing strength, which will be satisfied if the club has finished in the top 8 in the previous 3 seasons

7) A reasonable contribution to junior development, judged by the number of scholarships and the performance of the U21s and U18s academy teams in the last 3yrs

8) The stadium meeting the standard ofa premier sporting competition, which is judged on the quality and quantity of its facilities

9) geographical position, clubs that are more than 20 miles away from any other superleague club will be allocated a point

10) Compliance withsalary cap regulations. Specifically clubs must not have incurred any breach of the salary cap in the last 3yrs.

You do the maths and work out which clubs get how many points.

 

[deluded pom?]

Do they mean top eight in SL?

 

[bartman]

I would imagine they mean top 8 in the top flite eg SL or French Elite?

Decisions on franchises are meant to be made mid-year, aren't they? To avoid that promotion timing disadvantage, meaning finishing positions in 2008 (NL1 or SL) should be irrelevant.

But looking at the above criteria, what chance the RFL finding the 13th and/or 14th position "too hard to decide", and just declaring it open to which of Salford, Widnes, or Celtic finish the higher in NL1 this year, almost as per normal promotion/relegation?

 

[cumberlandsashes81]

But looking at the above criteria, what chance the RFL finding the 13th and/or 14th position "too hard to decide", and just declaring it open to which of Salford, Widnes, or Celtic finish the higher in NL1 this year, almost as per normal promotion/relegation?

Well -- If that's the criteria then its totally weighted against expansion outside of the traditional clubs, aside from the awarding of a single point for being more than 20kms from an existing franchise. What a disappointment.

Would I be right in saying that this means it would be literally impossible for either of Celtic or Toulouse to qualify?

 

[westie]

I would suggest that the criteria is almost certainly bollocks and the RFL will have in whoever they want.

 

[Kurt Angle]

That stereotype has been comprehensively debunked in Australia -- especially since the release of that survey (sure someone has a ready link to it?) which showed no significant demographical difference between supporters of RU and RL.

The 2004 Torque report...

the link is no longer online, but I have a copy of the text...

"WHAT is the richest sport in Australia as measured by fan base? Rugby union is likely to be the first sport to jump to mind - all those tweed jackets, leather elbow patches, Range Rovers and merchant bankers would seemingly guarantee the No.1 spot.

But a new survey by data marketing group, Torque, has found while union certainly has more seriously rich fans, rugby league is Australia's richest sport.

This is partly because it has more fans in the nation's most populous and expensive state, but it's still good news for a code widely regarded as the sport of the working class.

Torque says rugby league is the richest sport in "terms of the total affluence of its supporter base" - just beating the Australian Football League.

Part of the reason for this is that average incomes in rugby league strongholds NSW and Queensland are higher than in southern AFL states such as Victoria and South Australia.

... It also raises the question of whether rugby league has been marketing itself to the right audience.

... The image of the game is not reflected by its fan base," Cooper says. "But it is surprising that rugby league is as mid-market as it is."

It also raises the question of whether rugby league has been marketing itself to the right audience ... Torque also found that rugby league had more than its fair share of fans classified as senior government or business manager or executive."

 

[cumberlandsashes81]

Thanks Kurt

Torque says rugby league is the richest sport in "terms of the total affluence of its supporter base"

Yet the prejudice remains... makes me really wonder what else RL has to do to get its fair share out of media companies...

 

[International RL]

Yet the prejudice remains... makes me really wonder what else RL has to do to get its fair share out of media companies...

Start demanding it. Start shopping it around and let them bid for a change instead of panicking and signing on the dotted line whenever we are told.

The first step really is to break free of News and all of the vested interests.

 

[winnyason]

Calm down Bruce you`ll give yourself a hernia!

Im just going off the criteria the rfl have given out, if you`ve read it which im sure you have because your all clued up you will see that Celtic have absolutely no chance of getting a franchise this time round.
Im all up for expansion but you cant just parachute a club into superleague with not much foundations to go on, they should be in NL1 for a few yrs 1st.

At Widnes we are financially stable with a backer who has just sold his business for £23m, i know its a sugar daddy but what about Wire Huddersfield and Wigan? should we exclude them for having sugar daddys? Not many clubs make a profit you no mate if any! Saints have just recorded a loss of £250k in a season where they won every comp they couldve played in and have said there will be a bad loss this yr.

Also the applications for a franchise have to be in by feb which is before a ball has even been kicked in NL1 so it doesnt matter where we finish as long as its the top 8 which wont be hard.

THE SUPERLEAGUE CRITERIA
clubs will score a point for each of the following criteria satisfy.

1) A stadium capacity of at least 12000

2) An average crowd of 10000 or more.

3) An average crowd that fills more than 40% of a clubs stadium capacity

4) A turnover of at least £4million per annum

5) Solvency, in accordance with accounting definitions of solvency, although this can be satisfied if there is a written owners guarantee of the clubs debt

6) A reasonable playing strength, which will be satisfied if the club has finished in the top 8 in the previous 3 seasons

7) A reasonable contribution to junior development, judged by the number of scholarships and the performance of the U21s and U18s academy teams in the last 3yrs

8) The stadium meeting the standard ofa premier sporting competition, which is judged on the quality and quantity of its facilities

9) geographical position, clubs that are more than 20 miles away from any other superleague club will be allocated a point

10) Compliance withsalary cap regulations. Specifically clubs must not have incurred any breach of the salary cap in the last 3yrs.

You do the maths and work out which clubs get how many points

Look i see where your coming from but much like the nrl much famed 1998 criteria that get in who they want ask souths or say myself a manly fan forced to merge with norths move to the central coast & then go back to manly after all this crap that they put in who they want.
Widnes proably have a lot more right than other teams to get a spot - i still have images of the great widnes sides of the late eighties with offiah, currier in packed houses.
widnes where part of the unselfish move to bring in catalans,
i would much prefer widnes than a bullsh*t hull kr team full of aussies(you can tell they are parnoid about not getting in) or a quins team with little or no support.
I have no doubt widnes would get 10 thousand + through the gate if they travel well.

But i have no doubt that it is between salford, toulouse & celtic for the last spot.
Like said in previous post it will proably be a expansion team & heartland for the 2 spots
i hope celtic don't get in too risky crowds must get above 2000 to even be a chance & a team full of aussies, where as toulouse already have good support & judging by this crowd would reach 6 if they get into superleague plus it is a big city.
The salford thing is up in the air stadium not yet started & support very limited.

If all the rumours down under are true it is between them, i have no doubt widnes will proably be in the 2011 version, i see it as big oppotunity for the rfl to make a ballsy call & unlike the nrl who continue to put more teams on the east coast when both nz & west australia & calling out for new teams this was the whole thing a national comp not a east coast comp.

Anyhow we can speculate as much as we like by june next year we will know
my pick - toulouse & salford.

 

[deluded pom?]

Widnes struggled to get a regular gate of ten thou even when they were a star studded winning team so why would they suddenly get that sort of attendance now?

 

[Sam_the_man]

Anything is possible isn't it?

 

[deluded pom?]

Anything is possible isn't it?

Like the Kiwis being competitive at the WC? ;-) Sorry Sam I couldn't resist. You set me up beautifully.

 

[dallymessenger]

I'd suggest that the limited regional appeal of RL, drawing viewers disproportionately from around the M62 corridor as opposed to a more even spread across the country, and the lower income working class demographic of RL audiences would play at least some part in it. Advertisers want their ads to sell their products across the entire country and to people more likely to be able to afford to actually buy those products. Sports that appeal to wider geographic areas thus justifying the cost of national advertising as opposed to cheaper regional advertising and/or sports that appeal to demographics with higher disposal income will be therefore more valuable to television executives.

Leigh.

RL on Skysports gets higher advertising rates than club RU - the guiness premiership becuase it has more viewers

 

[dallymessenger]

Widnes struggled to get a regular gate of ten thou even when they were a star studded winning team so why would they suddenly get that sort of attendance now?

Halton stadium today is hardly the ground it was when widnes were the cup kings.

theyd get 10,000 if they stayed in SL for 5 yrs or so.

 

[bowes]

The population of Widnes is 50000 so it's a bit unrealistic to expect 1 in 5 people there (including babies etc) to attend week in week out, and there isn't room to attract fans from outside because it's pretty much surrounded by St Helens and Warrington

 

[dallymessenger]

The population of Widnes is 50000 so it's a bit unrealistic to expect 1 in 5 people there (including babies etc) to attend week in week out, and there isn't room to attract fans from outside because it's pretty much surrounded by St Helens and Warrington

runcorn?

edit : found it 60,000

http://www2.halton.gov.uk/yourcouncil/population?a=5441

 

[nadera78]

Widnes has a population of 58,000. It is in the borough of Halton, which has a total population of 120,000 people.

St Helens is to the north, and Wigan even more so. Warrington to the east. There are all sorts of towns and villages to the south an west of Widnes, from which the club could potentialy draw fans.

 

[deluded pom?]

Widnes has a population of 58,000. It is in the borough of Halton, which has a total population of 120,000 people.

St Helens is to the north, and Wigan even more so. Warrington to the east. There are all sorts of towns and villages to the south an west of Widnes, from which the club could potentialy draw fans.

Or potentially LOSE fans!