New Zealand 2 will deal a massive blow to NZ rugby

[Vlad59]

lol yeh a stadium comparison is literally the only criteria nrl are considering for the expansion spots. Cuckoo

Cuckoo is being kind to this twerp. He posts endless rubbish here.

 

[Matua]

Apart from the fact this article states pretty much everything I've been saying for almost 2 years...this part is particularly pleasing..

" League has one critical blow left to strike."

Haha, when I finally got round to reading it I came to the conclusion that Gregor Paul is one of your multis, or you’re all multis of his. Either way you can add Scotsman to your list of multi nationalities to go with Aussie and NZ schoolboy from Chch.

His 10 point list is hilarious and takes the kind of logical leaps that would make you proud. Let’s remember it’s named: 10 Reasons league is ready to usurp rugby as NZ’s dominant code.

1. Here he’s lumping the total “financial firepower” of an Aussie comp against NZR rugby. But, that’s meaningless if they’re not using the financial firepower in a head to head with NZR in NZ.
2. Again, comparing an Australian comp, which doesn’t prioritise NZ in a direct total head to head financially.
3. This one is the funniest of all as he compares the combined Oz and NZ league viewership against the Super rugby viewership in NZ. He also mentions the benefits of FTA TV in this section and in the article, and hilariously in the article above he links to Super Rugby being on FTA. His last line in this sentence makes no sense whatsoever, rugby doesn’t restrict itself to the rich in NZ. In fact league and rugby are on the same pay TV broadcaster. This line suggests he really is just on the troll.
4. A team from PNG apparently proves NRL has a strategic vision where rugby does not .. ok. But, I do agree NRL current has a mostly good strategic vision at the moment.
5. Again he’s talking about the NRL in reference to its corporate brand power in Australia.
6. The disparity in pay exists now and no recent ABs have defected (despite, like most NZers, being fans of the game), the most high profile defections from NZ have been a 7s player with a league background, an amateur midfielder turned test prop, and a fat 3rd division player who couldn’t stop eating.
7. See 6.
8. His stats show that there are more than 3 times the amount of rugby players than league players in NZ. Then he uses soccer player participation numbers as if they are somehow relevant to the debate.
9. This one is backed with no substantial facts. My teenage nephews are fans of both, like I was at their age. That comment is as irrelevant as what he wrote.
10. This is where he shows he still a Scotsman at heart despite living in NZ for a number of years. NZ is a net provider of players to the PI teams. Paul is essentially arguing here that NZers of PI heritage should play for the islands and not the ABs. Also, the eligibility laws, while tied with SOO representation only for players of PI heritage are a net negative to NZ, NZ league fans shouldn't be celebrating them.

For any of these pipe dreams to come true the NRL needs to crack open the piggy bank to put money into the NZ game (not just at NRL level). NZRL can't keep doing it while running at a loss.

 

[Matua]

Couple of big sliding door moments for both codes that could have long term ramifications.
NZ 2 is a must if they want to increase profile, but another must is that they set up strong structure and Admin from the top to the very bottom.
Recent development with the to big uk Union comps looking at merging could see SA getting the chop and needing a new home which could reignite a bit more interest in Super Rugby.
International game is the big card that League needs to up its game still (a few baby steps with the Pacific nations cup).
And although in theory Leagues ‘simplified’ rules should be its greatest strength, the interpretation and application of these rules is still a massive sore point for many fans that needs a better solution.

Yeah, with even the supposed Messiah Razor's AB team looking shakey this year this would have been the perfect time for league to capitalise, unfortunately the Warriors reverted to type, hopefully the Kiwis can continue on from last year, although I don't have too much confidence in the coaching team this year.

I haven't heard about the Saffas getting the chop from the NH until now. I thought they'd be loving them for the cash they can contribute, and the fact that despite all predications they're not completely dominating.

 

[Matiunz]

Yeah, with even the supposed Messiah Razor's AB team looking shakey this year this would have been the perfect time for league to capitalise, unfortunately the Warriors reverted to type, hopefully the Kiwis can continue on from last year, although I don't have too much confidence in the coaching team this year.

I haven't heard about the Saffas getting the chop from the NH until now. I thought they'd be loving them for the cash they can contribute, and the fact that despite all predications they're not completely dominating.

Yeah it’s a shame the Warriors regressed although it shouldn’t matter I think it has put the dampeners on NZ2s viability a bit. Hope I’m wrong about Stacey (as he is one of my all time favourite players) but don’t think he can coach and just hope it doesn’t drag the kiwis down. Whilst I can see how McGuire was a conflict of interest it is yet another own goal from the NZRL and its ’jobs for the boys’ mentality could squander an opportunity to strike.

The SA situation is one of a few scenarios that’s risen in the last couple of days. Basically premiership rugby has lost a couple of teams and a couple more are a bit financially shaky. Wales aren’t happy in the URC (ironically the SA travel is a factor) and are looking to join up with England. This leaves the URC 4 teams short, which leaves them the option of picking up teams from Spain/Georgia or dropping SA and joining Wales in the (current) English comp.
Both outcomes would have potentially large repercussions for NZ Rugby.

 

[Vlad59]

Yeah, with even the supposed Messiah Razor's AB team looking shakey this year this would have been the perfect time for league to capitalise, unfortunately the Warriors reverted to type, hopefully the Kiwis can continue on from last year, although I don't have too much confidence in the coaching team this year.

I haven't heard about the Saffas getting the chop from the NH until now. I thought they'd be loving them for the cash they can contribute, and the fact that despite all predications they're not completely dominating.

I was chatting to a mate from work today. Irishman who moved to Auckland with his family and was a cop there. Just moved to Tassie. I mentioned that article and he just laughed. He loves his league but he said it’s not on the map compared to union in terms of participation or profile. I enjoyed your analysis above by the way. There was a lot of comparing apples with bananas in that article. I’m not sure where the 40000 figure came from for league participation. I’ve not seen that anywhere. I don’t think there is any doubt the game has a great future in NZ but I think we have to be realistic about where it stands right now.

 

[Gobsmacked]

Haha, when I finally got round to reading it I came to the conclusion that Gregor Paul is one of your multis, or you’re all multis of his. Either way you can add Scotsman to your list of multi nationalities to go with Aussie and NZ schoolboy from Chch.

His 10 point list is hilarious and takes the kind of logical leaps that would make you proud. Let’s remember it’s named: 10 Reasons league is ready to usurp rugby as NZ’s dominant code.

1. Here he’s lumping the total “financial firepower” of an Aussie comp against NZR rugby. But, that’s meaningless if they’re not using the financial firepower in a head to head with NZR in NZ.
2. Again, comparing an Australian comp, which doesn’t prioritise NZ in a direct total head to head financially.
3. This one is the funniest of all as he compares the combined Oz and NZ league viewership against the Super rugby viewership in NZ. He also mentions the benefits of FTA TV in this section and in the article, and hilariously in the article above he links to Super Rugby being on FTA. His last line in this sentence makes no sense whatsoever, rugby doesn’t restrict itself to the rich in NZ. In fact league and rugby are on the same pay TV broadcaster. This line suggests he really is just on the troll.
4. A team from PNG apparently proves NRL has a strategic vision where rugby does not .. ok. But, I do agree NRL current has a mostly good strategic vision at the moment.
5. Again he’s talking about the NRL in reference to its corporate brand power in Australia.
6. The disparity in pay exists now and no recent ABs have defected (despite, like most NZers, being fans of the game), the most high profile defections from NZ have been a 7s player with a league background, an amateur midfielder turned test prop, and a fat 3rd division player who couldn’t stop eating.
7. See 6.
8. His stats show that there are more than 3 times the amount of rugby players than league players in NZ. Then he uses soccer player participation numbers as if they are somehow relevant to the debate.
9. This one is backed with no substantial facts. My teenage nephews are fans of both, like I was at their age. That comment is as irrelevant as what he wrote.
10. This is where he shows he still a Scotsman at heart despite living in NZ for a number of years. NZ is a net provider of players to the PI teams. Paul is essentially arguing here that NZers of PI heritage should play for the islands and not the ABs. Also, the eligibility laws, while tied with SOO representation only for players of PI heritage are a net negative to NZ, NZ league fans shouldn't be celebrating them.

For any of these pipe dreams to come true the NRL needs to crack open the piggy bank to put money into the NZ game (not just at NRL level). NZRL can't keep doing it while running at a loss.

Hahaha That's adorable.

 

[Gobsmacked]

I was chatting to a mate from work today. Irishman who moved to Auckland with his family and was a cop there. Just moved to Tassie. I mentioned that article and he just laughed. He loves his league but he said it’s not on the map compared to union in terms of participation or profile. I enjoyed your analysis above by the way. There was a lot of comparing apples with bananas in that article. I’m not sure where the 40000 figure came from for league participation. I’ve not seen that anywhere. I don’t think there is any doubt the game has a great future in NZ but I think we have to be realistic about where it stands right now.

An Irish cop . Well that settles it.

 

[Vlad59]

An Irish cop . Well that settles it.

Knows his footy. Great fella

 

[Wb1234]

An Irish cop . Well that settles it.

That article triggered the usual suspects

maybe that journo was reading your thread and agreed with it

 

[Vlad59]

That article triggered the usual suspects

maybe that journo was reading your thread and agreed with it

Given the endless rubbish you post here I’d shut up if I were you. You’ve got no credibility here at all.

 

[Gobsmacked]

That article triggered the usual suspects

maybe that journo was reading your thread and agreed with it

It certainly did! They've disagreed with me all along and now that in direct opposition to a noted news publication... o but an anonymous posters knows an Irish cop living in NZ says that he said...
Can't make this shit up.

 

[Gobsmacked]

Given the endless rubbish you post here I’d shut up if I were you. You’ve got no credibility here at all.

You live in Tasmania, defending Cronulla from the South island of NZ by using a Irish cop that once lived in Auckland..
Step away from the laptop and have a lay down.

 

[Vlad59]

You live in Tasmania, defending Cronulla from the South island of NZ by using a Irish cop that once lived in Auckland..
Step away from the laptop and have a lay down.

And you’re the homophobic loonie who claims to have been born in two different countries

 

[Wb1234]

You live in Tasmania, defending Cronulla from the South island of NZ by using a Irish cop that once lived in Auckland..
Step away from the laptop and have a lay down.

He used to work in rugby union juniors lmao

 

[flippikat]

Yeah it’s a shame the Warriors regressed although it shouldn’t matter I think it has put the dampeners on NZ2s viability a bit. Hope I’m wrong about Stacey (as he is one of my all time favourite players) but don’t think he can coach and just hope it doesn’t drag the kiwis down. Whilst I can see how McGuire was a conflict of interest it is yet another own goal from the NZRL and its ’jobs for the boys’ mentality could squander an opportunity to strike.

The SA situation is one of a few scenarios that’s risen in the last couple of days. Basically premiership rugby has lost a couple of teams and a couple more are a bit financially shaky. Wales aren’t happy in the URC (ironically the SA travel is a factor) and are looking to join up with England. This leaves the URC 4 teams short, which leaves them the option of picking up teams from Spain/Georgia or dropping SA and joining Wales in the (current) English comp.
Both outcomes would have potentially large repercussions for NZ Rugby.

The Warriors woes this year have been exacerbated by injuries, especially constant injuries in the spine that have meant forming combinations has been nigh-on impossible - and the coach's unwavering faith in SJ was especially rewarded by injuries & patchy form. All of that probably won't happen next year.

SA is hilarious. They ditched Super Rugby to link up with a European competition (because timezones), and now the cream of that European competition is leaving them to hook-up with the English Premiership. Karma's a b*tch, eh Bokke?

 

[Vlad59]

He used to work in rugby union juniors lmao

And you used to be a drug addict. By the way I didn’t work in juniors in rugby union.

 

[Vlad59]

The Warriors woes this year have been exacerbated by injuries, especially constant injuries in the spine that have meant forming combinations has been nigh-on impossible - and the coach's unwavering faith in SJ was especially rewarded by injuries & patchy form. All of that probably won't happen next year.

SA is hilarious. They ditched Super Rugby to link up with a European competition (because timezones), and now the cream of that European competition is leaving them to hook-up with the English Premiership. Karma's a b*tch, eh Bokke?

The demise of super rugby has been a disaster for the game in the southern hemisphere. At its peek it was the best quality union you could wish to see. Massive crowds, great open play. Aussie’s were competitive. Now it’s a financial millstone and is arguably killing the game at least in Australia. NZ really needs to finish it.

 

[flippikat]

The demise of super rugby has been a disaster for the game in the southern hemisphere. At its peek it was the best quality union you could wish to see. Massive crowds, great open play. Aussie’s were competitive. Now it’s a financial millstone and is arguably killing the game at least in Australia. NZ really needs to finish it.

I think the future of Super Rugby is "going long" - Making the season a March-to-September/October proposition much like NRL/AFL, bringing Japan back in & have an open player market within Super Rugby.

Simply scrapping Super Rugby & going back to the NPC won't work - it just won't earn the same TV money, and be a bigger cost to Sky to produce coverage of games all around NZ (especially if the length of the NPC is increased to compensate for dropping SR).

Distance is a problem if they're thinking of Japan, USA/Canada or Argentina, but getting the current 11 teams up to 12 could be done by adding a 6th NZ team or breaking Moana Pasifika into Samoa & Tonga teams.

If they really wanna get into the American market, Hawaii could possibly be a first step. A bit less distance to travel than the American mainland anyway.

 

[Vlad59]

I think the future of Super Rugby is "going long" - Making the season a March-to-September/October proposition much like NRL/AFL, bringing Japan back in & have an open player market within Super Rugby.

Simply scrapping Super Rugby & going back to the NPC won't work - it just won't earn the same TV money, and be a bigger cost to Sky to produce coverage of games all around NZ (especially if the length of the NPC is increased to compensate for dropping SR).

Distance is a problem if they're thinking of Japan, USA/Canada or Argentina, but getting the current 11 teams up to 12 could be done by adding a 6th NZ team or breaking Moana Pasifika into Samoa & Tonga teams.

If they really wanna get into the American market, Hawaii could possibly be a first step. A bit less distance to travel than the American mainland anyway.

Just reading your post makes it clear what a mess it is. They’ve completely fecked it up. They’ve lost SA. They’ve added and then thrown out Argentina and Japan. And the quality has diminished. Rugby league’s professionalism, the quality of the games and the endless controversy has left union with nowhere to go. Vlandys has not been perfect but gee he’s done a great job overall.

 

[flippikat]

Just reading your post makes it clear what a mess it is. They’ve completely fecked it up. They’ve lost SA. They’ve added and then thrown out Argentina and Japan. And the quality has diminished. Rugby league’s professionalism, the quality of the games and the endless controversy has left union with nowhere to go. Vlandys has not been perfect but gee he’s done a great job overall.

I have to admit, I wasn't sure on Vlandys when he first got the gig - but he's impressed me at how he's managed to get the game to grow & face up to expansion while keeping the traditionalists satisfied.

The next 3 expansion teams are gonna be a huge part of his legacy, and I hope like hell he sees the golden opportunity to really attack rugby union in one of it's strongholds with a 2nd NZ NRL club.

For so long we've been reactive, reacting to (mostly) the threat from AFL - perceived or real... but NZ 2 is a chance to be PROACTIVE and attack a rival while they're weak - and a rival that has juniors with transferable skills that can come across to our game!