New Zealand 2 will deal a massive blow to NZ rugby

[Wb1234]

There is no planet on the world where rugby league as a whole in nz isn’t the strongest it’s ever been

The whole reason the local game is struggling is because of the nrl side

It’s happened to every other league that got an nrl team (arl nswrl)

And a huge part of any decline in playing numbers is explained by Aussies poaching kiwi kids or kiwi kids moving to aus

And when in history would a warriors that finish 13th average over 20k

You’ve got sold out rugby league games all over New Zealand not just Auckland

Participation numbers are largely bs anyway it’s the elite junior pathways that provide nrl players

Go have a look at what happened to the brl when the broncos came in, or Newcastle, Illawarra

And our flagship nrl club is nowhere near what a top club looks like

What crowds would the warriors get if they were as successful as the storm

What happened to Npc interest once super rugby came in ?

Bet it became a feeder league

 

[Wb1234]

I honestly think the changes to the local game in NZ from the time of the Warriors admission were inevitable whether or the Warriors existed and were almost entirely the result of the changing landscape of professional rugby across both codes. The local scene as it was existed because of the nature of both rugby league and union at the time- rugby union was amateur, and rugby league in Australia was really only semi-professional, which left room for RL in NZ to exist on a semi-pro level because there wasn’t a massive incentive for players to leave chasing big money elsewhere. The explosion in professional money available in both the NRL and Union happened around the same time due to the Super League War and RU turning professional, and the semi pro NZ league scene simply couldn’t compete with it. At least the Warriors meant that the best part of one club’s worth remained in NZ, playing league.

Some really good points there

 

[SpaceMonkey]

The other thing I didn’t touch on there was TV- the local league scene in NZ largely thrived in the days before pay TV when there were only 2-3 TV channels covering NZ sport, and far fewer non-sporting entertainment options. Live sport had way less competition for people’s entertainment dollar then.

 

[Vlad59]

There is no planet on the world where rugby league as a whole in nz isn’t the strongest it’s ever been

The whole reason the local game is struggling is because of the nrl side

It’s happened to every other league that got an nrl team (arl nswrl)

And a huge part of any decline in playing numbers is explained by Aussies poaching kiwi kids or kiwi kids moving to aus

And when in history would a warriors that finish 13th average over 20k

You’ve got sold out rugby league games all over New Zealand not just Auckland

Participation numbers are largely bs anyway it’s the elite junior pathways that provide nrl players

Go have a look at what happened to the brl when the broncos came in, or Newcastle, Illawarra

And our flagship nrl club is nowhere near what a top club looks like

What crowds would the warriors get if they were as successful as the storm

What happened to Npc interest once super rugby came in ?

Bet it became a feeder league

Just give up. You are becoming a broken record of bullshit.

 

[Matiunz]

The other thing I didn’t touch on there was TV- the local league scene in NZ largely thrived in the days before pay TV when there were only 2-3 TV channels covering NZ sport, and far fewer non-sporting entertainment options. Live sport had way less competition for people’s entertainment dollar then.

This is a big one plus the way you get fleeced for tickets and food at the stadium now simply makes it unaffordable for many families where watching it at home is the much cheaper option.
The Warriors lowering prices highlighted finding the right pricing is a big win

 

[Canard]

There is no planet on the world where rugby league as a whole in nz isn’t the strongest it’s ever been

The whole reason the local game is struggling is because of the nrl side

He has typed out these two sentences, and somehow still missed the point.

 

[titoelcolombiano]

Only one of those comps that existed pre Warriors season as the WC and Aus had dominated that since its existence except for a couple of GB wins early on. Kiwis did make the final pre Warriors.

GB and Australia were the best two sides pre Warriors. Since 1995 it's shifted and is now clearly Aus & NZ

 

[titoelcolombiano]

I think your conflating on field results with the state of the game.

The two are unrelated.

I think there's plenty of off field evidence that the game is in better shape than ever, even if still not perfect.

Popularity
Professional pathways (finally)
Desire of the talented NZ youth to be in those pathways
Desire for a second NRL franchise
The women's game
Engagement with NZ fans of Tongan and Samoan decent

All of these things have come about over the last 30 years and RL in NZ would have killed for it pre Warriors

 

[titoelcolombiano]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Zealand_national_rugby_league_teameon

Before 2000 they won ‘Nothing’?

I hardly think so. As the link shows they won plenty.
Two other points:

1. It’s a bit hard to win a comp prior to 2000 that didn’t exist. Eg the Pacific Cup.
2. There is very little evidence I can find apart from the odd link here that the game there is healthier than ever from a participation viewpoint.

yes the warriors have been going well and crowds have been excellent but let’s not pretend the game has never been bigger unless you are only referring to the elite level.

Pre 1995, not pre 2000

 

[Vlad59]

Pre 1995, not pre 2000

My point stands. They have a rich international history.

 

[Wb1234]

Pre 1995, not pre 2000

He doesn’t realise the warriors came into the comp in 95

 

[Hey you guys]

GB and Australia were the best two sides pre Warriors. Since 1995 it's shifted and is now clearly Aus & NZ

Pre 95’ the majority of the kiwis side was based in England playing in the old 1st division.

 

[Matiunz]

I think there's plenty of off field evidence that the game is in better shape than ever, even if still not perfect.

Popularity
Professional pathways (finally)
Desire of the talented NZ youth to be in those pathways
Desire for a second NRL franchise
The women's game
Engagement with NZ fans of Tongan and Samoan decent

All of these things have come about over the last 30 years and RL in NZ would have killed for it pre Warriors

Most of those things aren’t particularly new.
Popularity- The hype around the Warriors when they entered was fever pitch, they were everywhere poor results slowly but surely tapered that hype off.
Again Warriors were the hottest ticket in town and the media darlings in their 02 and 11 campaigns, consistency between seasons with the exception of most of the Cleary era killed the hype and made fans wary. Those thinking the last couple of years were the peak of Warriors popularity have short memories.
Again with short memories Warriors sold out games with a larger capacity a few times prior to last 2 seasons.

Professional pathways- the sporting landscape changed a few times over the course of existence but the Warriors were seen as THE professional pathway when they entered. Many players came from Auckland club level straight into NSWRL teams (even pre Warriors) no way this happens now, players would also come through bartercard cup not Warriors- not anymore. Under 20s was also a massive success - yep that went too but yes good to see teams at all levels finally coming in under the current pathways systems.

Desire for players- was there at the beginning but faded with the Warriors results, Warriors and NZ2 need to be the place the top NZers aspire to play for.

Second NRL franchise has been talked about since superleague- if the War continued ARL had spoken about a desire for a nz presence even if that meant going up against the Warriors, Wellington also campaigned hard when the Warriors were admitted and again when the Titans were admitted- that’s not new

Women’s game for any code didn’t really exist in a big way pre Warriors- first kiwiferns game was 95 but that would have come about wether the Warriors existed or not.

PIs have ALWAYS been very closely associated with league in NZ from the start of the Pacific migration this is not a new phenomenon.

Yes Warriors and kiwis have had some recent success but also have both had some tough times surrounding that success- the key is capitalising and maintaining that success otherwise this current period threatens to be yet another peak blip

 

[Matiunz]

My point stands. They have a rich international history.

As well as Auckland had an exceptional record versus touring sides pre Warriors using local players. Yes professional sports landscape has changed but the local Auckland scene has been left behind and likely was inevitable but still a shame

 

[Wb1234]

Lmao warriors were popular the years they made grand finals?

Last two years they finished 13th and 4th and sold out pretty much all their home games

And tv ratings were up 14 percent

This is their highest crowd average in history and the highest tv ratings ever

Rugby league has never been so popular ever in nz

 

[Wb1234]

As well as Auckland had an exceptional record versus touring sides pre Warriors using local players. Yes professional sports landscape has changed but the local Auckland scene has been left behind and likely was inevitable but still a shame

The Auckland rugby league still has assets worth 100 million from the sale of Carlaw park

Yet they have wasted millions and are subject to an audit aren’t they ?

That’s surely a factor in how the domestic game is going

Not that the nzrl are much better

 

[Wb1234]

Records shattered at Go Media Stadium for groundbreaking One New Zealand Warriors sellout season

Records shattered at Go Media Stadium for groundbreaking One New Zealand Warriors sellout season

aucklandunlimited.com

“A record-breaking total of 235,581 people attended 10 Warriors home games at Go Media Stadium through the 2024 season, averaging 23,578 per match.”

Warriors set record for attendances in watershed season

One New Zealand Warriors set attendance records topping numbers achieved in 1995 debut.

www.warriors.kiwi

“This season the One New Zealand Warriors averaged 24,608 for their 12 home games, up from 22,685 last season”

 

[Wb1234]

Club ranked among country's fastest growing businesses

One New Zealand Warriors ranked among fastest growing businesses in Deloitte Fast 50.

www.warriors.kiwi

“As well as 13 sold-out games in New Zealand this year and eight last season, the One New Zealand Warriors pre-sold all their hospitality options before the 2024 campaign and achieved exponential growth in sponsorship, membership and merchandise revenue.”

 

[Vlad59]

Records shattered at Go Media Stadium for groundbreaking One New Zealand Warriors sellout season

Records shattered at Go Media Stadium for groundbreaking One New Zealand Warriors sellout season

aucklandunlimited.com

“A record-breaking total of 235,581 people attended 10 Warriors home games at Go Media Stadium through the 2024 season, averaging 23,578 per match.”

Warriors set record for attendances in watershed season

One New Zealand Warriors set attendance records topping numbers achieved in 1995 debut.

www.warriors.kiwi

“This season the One New Zealand Warriors averaged 24,608 for their 12 home games, up from 22,685 last season”

Look I know you are an NRL fanboy but try and read and comprehend the posts by others about what the situation really is in NZ. The game is in good health at elite levels because of the NRL club. We all know that. It’s in poor to not good health across the country at all other levels. There is no NPC level or anything like it. Participation at junior levels from what I have been able to find is poor. It is all fixable with the right funding and a nationally coordinated approach to delivering the game as it’s delivered in parts of Australia. But it’s not happening yet. NZ is dominated by rugby union and always has been. Hating union as much as you do doesn’t mean league is on a high there across all levels. Temper your enthusiasm with some logic. Why did I write this?

 

[Matua]

I think there's plenty of off field evidence that the game is in better shape than ever, even if still not perfect.

Popularity
Professional pathways (finally)
Desire of the talented NZ youth to be in those pathways
Desire for a second NRL franchise
The women's game
Engagement with NZ fans of Tongan and Samoan decent

All of these things have come about over the last 30 years and RL in NZ would have killed for it pre Warriors

Your game in better shape than ever seems to be limited to a narrow criteria, and most of that is focusing on the Warriors.

We've had a few eras of popularity, both before and since the Warriors arrival. This current one is not unprecedented. The in game crowds have been built on discounted tickets (I don't have a problem with that)

We've had NRL attached lower grade professional pathways for one year, but there has always been Warriors pathways in NZ, again, this is not unprecedented.

The desire of talented youth to be involved in NRL pathways was higher during the U20s years than now, due to being able to earn more money than in the rugby academies.

Women's rugby and league are both very popular at the moment.

What is the engagement with NZ fans of Tongan and Samoan descent meant to be? I genuinely don't know what you mean here. The Warriors have always had a Pasifika flavour and some of our great players pre and during the Warriors have been Pasifika.

Meanwhile, every club comp around the country has less teams now than they did pre Warriors and during the Warriors. As I noted (multiple times) above my province's club comp nearly collapsed completely. Meanwhile Wb is celebrating the crowd that attended a Warriors game there, does it really matter if those people are turning up to see a one off match when no one's playing the game in the region anymore? Do you think that is the game being in better shape than ever? This thread is about celebrating the death of rugby in NZ yet more teenage boys play that sport than total people play league.

The shop front in 2023/24 is looking good (I think the shine has worn off, but I guess we'll see later this year whether that is correct or not), but that is not all "league" in NZ.

Edit: Missed that @Matiunz had covered these already, well I guess now you can cover your eyes and block your ears to both our posts.