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New Zealand 2 will deal a massive blow to NZ rugby

BuffaloRules

Coach
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15,672

Sports Insider: Warriors guilty of throwing rocks at glass houses in NRL expansion row​

By Trevor McKewen
Sports Insider·NZ Herald·
19 Feb, 2025 05:00 PM10 mins to read



Dame Lydia Ko, Dana White, Clayton McMillan and Roger Tuivasa-Sheck. Photos / Photosport, Getty images

An attack on a rival and a bid to stop a second New Zealand franchise reveal a Warriors outfit getting ahead of themselves and showing great hubris in the process; New Zealand Rugby executives are in the firing line as a secret email circulates among provincial unions; And Dame Lydia Ko tops an unforgettable year. All in today’s Sports Insider.
While rugby union burns in this country, its rival code continues to fiddle, squabble among itself and is increasingly in danger of squandering a once-in-a-generation opportunity.
Press coverage here about the Australian National Rugby League’s (NRL) mooted expansion programme is as thin on the ground as Warriors premierships while we still remain fixated with the slow train wreck that is New Zealand Rugby (NZR).
But across the pond, there are almost daily excitable reports on which franchises will secure the remaining three licences in the NRL’s planned 20-team club competition, many featuring New Zealand contenders.


Beyond Papua New Guinea’s bizarre taxpayer-funded (American and Australian) bid and a team based in Perth, there were four Kiwi syndicates alone bidding for the remaining licence, likely to be granted by 2030.
That’s now down to three after the first syndicate, headed by former Canterbury league officials and involving former Kiwis coach Frank Endacott, fell over.
We even have the fanciful notion of a Pasifika-themed franchise in Auckland – something that will never happen, not because it’s not a good idea but because the bid lacks substance and credibility.
The South Island Kea (headed by former NZR and NRL chief executive David Moffett) and the Southern Orca (a rebooted Wellington bid shifted south) are frequently in the headlines in Australian media, pushing their respective wares.

Perhaps it is this presence that has persuaded the Warriors to weigh in across the Ditch and declare themselves as the only franchise that should exist in this country.
Not for the first time, Warriors CEO Cameron George told Sydney’s Daily Telegraph that no other side should be admitted from New Zealand for at least “10 to 15 years” – a scenario that would effectively (and conveniently) kill off a second team.
In particular, George took the long handle to Moffett – and in doing so, revealed he knows little of the recent history of the game in this country.
“It’s funny because David Moffett has been quite vocal about how he’s coming to get the Warriors,” George told the Telegraph.
“This is the problem. I think he was the CEO of the NRL (in 2001), why didn’t he put money into New Zealand rugby league then? Then, all of a sudden, we’re saying we’re ready to go now.”
Park for a moment that Auckland FC and football have shown what healthy rivalries can produce. It is not only a self-serving comment, it’s an ignorant one.
Moffett actually saved the Warriors in 2001 from being kicked out of the NRL following a covert campaign by a cabal of ruthless Sydney club owners who wanted the Kiwi franchise gone.
I should know what happened because I had a seat at the table when it all went down.
At the height of Tainui’s ownership of the Warriors imploding following boardroom squabbles and eye-watering debt, Moffett and his successor David Gallop flew to New Zealand to ensure the Warriors stayed alive.
It was a painful exercise, given the new owner Eric Watson made it clear he would pay only $1 for the licence, wanted to sack everybody and also didn’t intend to honour the existing player contracts.

It would have been easy for the NRL to walk away from New Zealand at that point.
As the Warriors CEO at the time, I was hardly enamoured with Moffett seemingly working so hard to accommodate Watson.
But the veteran administrator ultimately made the right decisions. He not only helped the Warriors to survive but actually thrive, suggesting the club rename itself the “New Zealand Warriors” and adopt a black playing strip – which Watson promptly did.
That hardly seems the actions of a man that George has portrayed as being missing in action around the code in New Zealand at that time.
In fact, I recall one powerful Sydney club boss telling me at the time: “You blokes are bloody lucky ‘Moff’ had your back or you were gone.”
Here’s another history lesson for the current Warriors administrators.

Your regime is also not the first to have either placed emerging Warriors players with lower-grade Australian clubs or to field teams in junior grades – something George has touted as a reason why the Warriors should retain a monopoly.
The former was happening as long as 25 years ago when surplus players to the 18-man NRL first-grade squad were placed weekly with either the Newtown Jets in Sydney’s NSW Cup competition or Brisbane South in Queensland’s equivalent.
That was a commitment made in perilous financial times and without any NRL cash assistance – not like now where a substantial multimillion-dollar grant from head office propels the bulk of club development at the existing 17 franchises.
Roger Tuivasa-Sheck in action for the Warriors in a pre-season match against Melbourne. Photo / Photosport
Club owner Mark Robinson is no doubt tipping money in to help finance junior Warriors teams playing in Australian competitions, but the commercial strength of the NRL makes that far more palatable than previous eras.
Fielding five junior teams in Sydney is not some sort of visionary breakthrough – if anything, it’s a sign of hubris from a club acting as if it holds the sovereign role of developing the game in this country.
Little wonder then that Moffett fired back.

“The Warriors – a team with 30 years of underachievement both on and off the field – are suddenly the self-appointed gatekeepers of rugby league in New Zealand,” Moffett reminded Telegraph readers.
“Yet now they suddenly have the vision to ‘take over’ the country?
“Spare us. Their notion of monopolising New Zealand rugby league is as bizarre as it is delusional. They don’t run rugby league in New Zealand; they merely occupy a seat they’ve done little to earn.”
Touché.
If George wants an example of how competition is good for a club and code, he merely needs to stick his head outside his Penrose office on Saturday and view the second sold-out crowd at Mt Smart for Auckland FC’s local derby with the Wellington Phoenix.
That’s real vision.

Theres a WA BEARS article directly under the top pasted which is the same triple M Cook shutup Vlandys thing that some journos seemingly havent heard the actual interview and the jest behind it lol (they think he was serious which is some poor journalism) anyways that article which is a copy already posted article in WA Bears thread has this at the very end

The NRL’s apparent determination to wrangle public money from any new franchise is the key obstacle to another New Zealand team. It simply won’t happen no matter what Government we have in place and cash-strapped councils are not going to pay either.

Warriors are focused on self interest .., the NRL needs to tell them to sod off…

I think we all know there isn’t a decent NZ bid yet .., so maybe they need to wait for that first
 

Matua

First Grade
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5,286
Only issue you can raise is tier two pacific nations being able play to play origin and then not have to play for Australia.

The super league tri series was a fail

How will it look if nz can’t beat nsw or qld

Which bc it’s mid year they won’t
I don't want a NZ team in Origin, you've misinterpreted my post if you think that's what I'm suggesting.

Just allow eligible NZers to play Origin and for NZ like the PI teams. After all with the amount of times the PIs have beaten NZ tier 1 and tier 2 doesn't really mean anything these days.

So, put the blame on the individual instead, the game isn't forcing anyone to do anything. What a weak piss poor excuse.
Yes it is, a PI NZer who is eligible for Origin can only pick the PI team regardless of which international team they want to play for. It's a Sophie's Choice for the individual.

It's not an excuse for anything, it's just a fact. I'm not an Aussie, I don't have to love Origin and I don't.
 

Matua

First Grade
Messages
5,286
Ponga isnt even the best QLD fullback let alone in general and Tino is a mid not back row.

edwards - fb
lomax - wg
munster - 5/8
cleary - h/b
grant - hk
martin - 2r
critchon - 2r
yeo - lk

8 starters of the 13 that are locked in best. couple benchies too, a couple superstars also not playing their club position i.e turbo etc.

aussies might be light on out and out mids but blokes like cotter put in way more than 98% of the mids in the comp no matter where they from or who they represent.

anyways digressing big time here so apologise but needed to highlight how perthwrongs, ding dong is wrong yet again. its like he doesnt actually watch any footy, instead spends his time here and on social media talking about a product he has 0 clue in lol

for reference i have

critchon - ctr (samoa)
farnsworth - ctr (england)
to'o - wg (samoa)
hass - p (samoa)
AFB - p (tonga)

as the other 5 positions in the 13.
3 samoans, 1 englishmen and 1 tongan (although has played for kiwis too). theres no out and out kiwis in the best 13. maybe 1 in the best 17.
What a weird line you're taking, it doesn't matter if the players are best in their position or not, it's not like we're only considering all the best players. It doesn't matter if Ponga is only x best fullback for Qld, he's going to improve the Kiwis.
 

Matua

First Grade
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5,286
The Kiwi Govt gives money to have events in their country that will attract international visitors
When doing an analysis of that how many international visitors will a one off Origin match bring in, and will it be enough to be worth throwing money at the event? I'm genuinely not sure it is.
 

Perth Red

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When doing an analysis of that how many international visitors will a one off Origin match bring in, and will it be enough to be worth throwing money at the event? I'm genuinely not sure it is.
The problem would be in the size of the stadium and ticket availability to see a lot of fans travelling into the host city for it. Perth gets 12-15k fans from East coast come over for it in a 60k stadium so probably worth the $8mill cost to WA Govt. Would NZ get that many with only a 30k or 34.5k stadium to host it, highly unlikely?

This was from the 2019 Perth Origin game stats:

'Close to 11,700 people visited WA for that game, spending more than $19 million and staying nearly 69,500 combined nights - generating huge benefits for WA tourism businesses, hotels, bars, restaurants and other hospitality operators.'
 

SirPies&Beers

Juniors
Messages
1,059
The problem would be in the size of the stadium and ticket availability to see a lot of fans travelling into the host city for it. Perth gets 12-15k fans from East coast come over for it in a 60k stadium so probably worth the $8mill cost to WA Govt. Would NZ get that many with only a 30k or 34.5k stadium to host it, highly unlikely?

This was from the 2019 Perth Origin game stats:

'Close to 11,700 people visited WA for that game, spending more than $19 million and staying nearly 69,500 combined nights - generating huge benefits for WA tourism businesses, hotels, bars, restaurants and other hospitality operators.'
Another wrong stat by Perthwrongs.
Haha cob really is a clueless shit for brains.

perthwrongs, ding dong
 

ParraEelsNRL

Referee
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27,731
The South Island will get smashed like QLD pre origin days.
Out of interest, not trying to argue, could you or anyone put together a potential squad from both north and south island?

If anyone could do the same for the UK it would be welcomed, same again, north south divide, just out of interest.

Remember, if you never start it, it will never become anything.

Back in the day, even the French would make up representative sides to play the opposing touring nation, as in Carthaginians and other such names to represent an area.
 

Matua

First Grade
Messages
5,286
Out of interest, not trying to argue, could you or anyone put together a potential squad from both north and south island?

If anyone could do the same for the UK it would be welcomed, same again, north south divide, just out of interest.

Remember, if you never start it, it will never become anything.

Back in the day, even the French would make up representative sides to play the opposing touring nation, as in Carthaginians and other such names to represent an area.
Basically it's most NZ players for the NI and I'll list some SI players I know off the top of my head: Neame, Isaako, Fa'amanu Brown, Riki, I think Jazz was born there but he's a NI boy and I think Kodi Nikorima lived there for a while but he's from Palmy. That's all I've got, others might be able to add more.
 
Last edited:

BuffaloRules

Coach
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15,672
When doing an analysis of that how many international visitors will a one off Origin match bring in, and will it be enough to be worth throwing money at the event? I'm genuinely not sure it is.

Let’s see if it goes any further at this point ..looking unlikely I would suggest

The NRL left a gap in the schedule in 2027 to allow for it to go to NZ …obviously subject to a cash payment like the AFL States pay here … considering we haven’t heard much since this article in 2023 …. I wouldn’t be holding my breath

 

ParraEelsNRL

Referee
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27,731
Basically it's most NZ players for the NI and I'll list some SI players I know off the top of my head: Neame, Isaako, Fa'amanu Brown, Riki, I think Jazz was born there but he's a NI boy and I think Kodi Nikorima lived there for a while but he's from Palmy. That's all I've got, others might be able to add more.
That's got the makings of a pretty hot team TBQH. Dang.
 

Matua

First Grade
Messages
5,286
That's got the makings of a pretty hot team TBQH. Dang.
Not really, Jazz and Kodi are likely going to want to be considered for the NI. Then you're left with two forwards and a wing (is Brown even still playing). That is not the makings of a hot team no matter how you try to spin it.
 

ParraEelsNRL

Referee
Messages
27,731
Not really, Jazz and Kodi are likely going to want to be considered for the NI. Then you're left with two forwards and a wing (is Brown even still playing). That is not the makings of a hot team no matter how you try to spin it.
What ever, you have your opinion and I have mine, you have to start from somewhere. All I read from you is fear of another sport, see right through you.aybe you should think about taking over the Union part of this forum, since the other merkin left us, I see you and ya mate have stepped up to the plate.

Don't bother posting to me again, all you want is arguments. Dipshit.
 

Canard

Immortal
Messages
35,947
What ever, you have your opinion and I have mine, you have to start from somewhere. All I read from you is fear of another sport, see right through you.aybe you should think about taking over the Union part of this forum, since the other merkin left us, I see you and ya mate have stepped up to the plate.

Don't bother posting to me again, all you want is arguments. Dipshit.
What a melty.
 

Matua

First Grade
Messages
5,286
What ever, you have your opinion and I have mine, you have to start from somewhere. All I read from you is fear of another sport, see right through you.aybe you should think about taking over the Union part of this forum, since the other merkin left us, I see you and ya mate have stepped up to the plate.

Don't bother posting to me again, all you want is arguments. Dipshit.
Hahaha what an impressive hissy fit.

You asked about the make up of a SI team and you don't like the answer so now you're carrying on like a baby, but the demographics just don't work, the majority of players are from the NI and that's not going to change.
 

Perth Red

Post Whore
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70,826

20k visitors
lol that was a prediction 3 years before the game! , what I posted was an actual number who attended according to those who would know.
 

flippikat

First Grade
Messages
5,352
NZ should make their own SOO, North Island vs South Island, the same should be done in the SL. Build it and sell it and split the money however you want.
That wouldn't work - when you factor population & participation in rugby league, the South Island would be whipping boys.

Maybe.. just MAYBE an "Auckland vs the rest" series could work, as it seems a bit more balanced when we factor in the strength of RL there versus the whole rest of NZ's RL resources.
 
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