New Zealand 2 will deal a massive blow to NZ rugby

[Mother Nature's Son]

Perth Bears thread....

again lets talk about the seemingly lack of enthusiasm to get club 20 locked in. NZ2 bids not stacking up? or NRL one eye on somewhere else? Or NRL just not feeling any great urgency to make a call yet?

I`d say pretty much this. ^ V`landys and Abdo`s way of saying "must try harder".

 

[Mother Nature's Son]

Anyway, it's always interesting to see how our nearest competitors are doing and you have to wonder if the interest in Super Rugby is in decline throughout NZ dominace.. where will it go when they aren't..?

The NZ super rugby teams will come good when the time comes, it must be hard to get themselves up playing against sub-standard teams year-in year-out. Come finals time or in matches that really count (for whatever reason) they`ll put the Aussie teams back in their box I`ve no doubt.
I find it very hard to believe that the Oz teams have all of a sudden discovered all these good young players when it has been obvious the last few years their teams are made up of players with very average talent.

 

[Gobsmacked]

The NZ super rugby teams will come good when the time comes, it must be hard to get themselves up playing against sub-standard teams year-in year-out. Come finals time or in matches that really count (for whatever reason) they`ll put the Aussie teams back in their box I`ve no doubt.
I find it very hard to believe that the Oz teams have all of a sudden discovered all these good young players when it has been obvious the last few years their teams are made up of players with very average talent.

They've put 5 teams of talent into 4, while NZ put 5 into 6..
Your probably right and the season will turn around but the question remains the same, how would Super Rugby's declining interest in NZ hold up if there teams are not making finals? Does it accelerate?

 

[Wb1234]

They've put 5 teams of talent into 4, while NZ put 5 into 6..
Your probably right and the season will turn around but the question remains the same, how would Super Rugby's declining interest in NZ hold up if there teams are not making finals? Does it accelerate?

That’s a good point about the death of the rebels making the rest stronger

If they go back to 3 which isn’t far off they could actually be decent whilst nz went the other way

Not like the force will last long anyway

They struggle to have players for 11 super rugby sides whilst league is 17 going to 20

 

[AlwaysGreen]

Points are being deducted here lads.
Bestest RLF eva!!! aren't meant to know so much about another code.

 

[Gobsmacked]

That’s a good point about the death of the rebels making the rest stronger

If they go back to 3 which isn’t far off they could actually be decent whilst nz went the other way

Not like the force will last long anyway

They struggle to have players for 11 super rugby sides whilst league is 17 going to 20

If you put the talent into simple figures:

Super Rugby 2022- 5m per team, 12 teams = 60m.
Super Rugby 2025- 5m pr team,11 teams = 55m.

NRL 2022 - 11m pr team , 16 teams =
176 million .
NRL 2025- 12m pr team, 17 teams =
204 million.
NRL 2028... 13m pr team, 19 teams=
247 million....

In the last 3 years The gap between player wages spent on NRL vs Super Rugby grew from 116 million to 149 million and on track to be around 193 million by 2028.

We're seeing a steady flow of talent to Rugby league , European Rugby and Japan and as the talent flows out the door, so will the fans..broadcast revenue has already taken a hit which can only affect wages negatively and the cycle continues. A play for Sualii is a desperate attempt to break the cycle which likely made it worse by overspending on the area you need to be most frugal.

Over a long enough timeline NRL becomes the only serious Rugby competition in the pacific.
I've been advocating for another NZ team for a long time to really accelerate the process of converting Kiwis into NRL fans but in reality, that's already happening. By the time they get a second team, NZ will already be Rugby league territory.

I guess the strategy from the NRL is not to go to war with Super Rugby, but to wait and let them starve. Then walk into the territory.

 

[Wb1234]

If you put the talent into simple figures:

Super Rugby 2022- 5m per team, 12 teams = 60m.
Super Rugby 2025- 5m pr team,11 teams = 55m.

NRL 2022 - 11m pr team , 16 teams =
176 million .
NRL 2025- 12m pr team, 17 teams =
204 million.
NRL 2028... 13m pr team, 19 teams=
247 million....

In the last 3 years The gap between player wages spent on NRL vs Super Rugby grew from 116 million to 149 million and on track to be around 193 million by 2028.

We're seeing a steady flow of talent to Rugby league , European Rugby and Japan and as the talent flows out the door, so will the fans..broadcast revenue has already taken a hit which can only affect wages negatively and the cycle continues. A play for Sualii is a desperate attempt to break the cycle which likely made it worse by overspending on the area you need to be most frugal.

Over a long enough timeline NRL becomes the only serious Rugby competition in the pacific.
I've been advocating for another NZ team for a long time to really accelerate the process of converting Kiwis into NRL fans but in reality, that's already happening. By the time they get a second team, NZ will already be Rugby league territory.

I guess the strategy from the NRL is not to go to war with Super Rugby, but to wait and let them starve. Then walk into the territory.

Super rugby is a “development comp” according to some people on here which is why I’m not surprised kiwis like a rugby comp which actually matters in its own right

 

[Matiunz]

They've put 5 teams of talent into 4, while NZ put 5 into 6..
Your probably right and the season will turn around but the question remains the same, how would Super Rugby's declining interest in NZ hold up if there teams are not making finals? Does it accelerate?

Think consolidating Aus from 5 teams to 4 has definitely strengthened those teams, Aus Rugby was always stretched to thin @ 5 and as has been said they were in that sweet spot when they had 3.
NZ hasn’t really stretched into 6 teams, MP is the outlier without a regional home. That got a big score in securing Ardie Savea this year but the majority of their squad is cast offs unwanted/unlikely to make the teams in their catchment. For example my Home province is in the Hurricanes catchment but are very much the poorer cousin in wellingtons eyes and supplied about a 3rd of MP squad with next to no Hurricanes representation the first couple of years.

SR still holds a local connection to many provincial NZer that the NRL can’t match yet without adding another team(s)- Warriors are obviously top dog but there’s a small degree of separation outside of Auckland that NZ 2/3 can tap into

 

[Gobsmacked]

Think consolidating Aus from 5 teams to 4 has definitely strengthened those teams, Aus Rugby was always stretched to thin @ 5 and as has been said they were in that sweet spot when they had 3.
NZ hasn’t really stretched into 6 teams, MP is the outlier without a regional home. That got a big score in securing Ardie Savea this year but the majority of their squad is cast offs unwanted/unlikely to make the teams in their catchment. For example my Home province is in the Hurricanes catchment but are very much the poorer cousin in wellingtons eyes and supplied about a 3rd of MP squad with next to no Hurricanes representation the first couple of years.

SR still holds a local connection to many provincial NZer that the NRL can’t match yet without adding another team(s)- Warriors are obviously top dog but there’s a small degree of separation outside of Auckland that NZ 2/3 can tap into

MP are winning games against NZ sides whilst the majority of that squad are eligible for NZ. So obviously at least 1 if not all 5 NZ squads would be bolstered by players currently in MP.

The constant presence of a Super Rugby sides playing in and representing a city where an NRL team doesn't ever play doesn't make SR bigger, it just makes it more accessible.
The Warriors are bigger in Wellington than the hurricanes and they don't even play there..

 

[Wb1234]

 

[SirPies&Beers]

Points are being deducted here lads.
Bestest RLF eva!!! aren't meant to know so much about another code.

alwaysloser stalking posters because he needs their attention 24/7. cant help it, built into him. alwaysloser the resident forum loser

 

[Matiunz]

MP are winning games against NZ sides whilst the majority of that squad are eligible for NZ. So obviously at least 1 if not all 5 NZ squads would be bolstered by players currently in MP.

The constant presence of a Super Rugby sides playing in and representing a city where an NRL team doesn't ever play doesn't make SR bigger, it just makes it more accessible.
The Warriors are bigger in Wellington than the hurricanes and they don't even play there..

MP have only just got their second ever win over a NZ team in 4 seasons, still in the blip territory rather than a regular thing. Only about 1/3 of the squad is eligible for NZ at this stage and outside of Ardie Savea the majority are more likely to debut for a Samoa or Tonga rather than NZ- MP are not there for development of NZ players. It’s similar to saying say Warriors have potential to produce Kangaroos players but outside of the odd one it’s relatively rare and unlikely - but that’s not exactly the point of the Warriors.
Little apples and oranges comparing a 1 team sport to a 5 team equivalent, be an interesting exercise where Wellington’s loyalties lay for nz 2

 

[flippikat]

Little apples and oranges comparing a 1 team sport to a 5 team equivalent, be an interesting exercise where Wellington’s loyalties lay for nz 2

Yeah, that's going to be interesting, and with NZ 2 likely to be based in Christchurch, Wellington potentially becomes battleground territory.

Without a doubt, the Warriors will have to stop playing their home-away-from-home game(s) in Christchurch.. and if/when NZ 2 is announced, they're well within their rights to pivot to Wellington.

What makes it interesting is that the Orcas bid wants to include Wellington while the Kea bid appears to be content with the South Island.

If Kea wins, it's an easy decision for the Warriors to revert to Wellington as a secondary market.

As a Wellington based Warriors fan, I have to say I'd be conflicted if the Orcas (keen on us as a secondary market) gets the nod.

note: I know I've said I'd jump over to support them if they bring games, but on reflection, it's a tough move for sure.

Yes it means Orcas games here BUT it's still not easy to leave 25+ years of Warriors support, then there's the "Chip on our shoulder" that Wellington sports fans have about Christchurch/Canterbury teams.

Not an easy sell.

 

[Dark Corner]

Yeah, that's going to be interesting, and with NZ 2 likely to be based in Christchurch, Wellington potentially becomes battleground territory.

Without a doubt, the Warriors will have to stop playing their home-away-from-home game(s) in Christchurch.. and if/when NZ 2 is announced, they're well within their rights to pivot to Wellington.

What makes it interesting is that the Orcas bid wants to include Wellington while the Kea bid appears to be content with the South Island.

If Kea wins, it's an easy decision for the Warriors to revert to Wellington as a secondary market.

As a Wellington based Warriors fan, I have to say I'd be conflicted if the Orcas (keen on us as a secondary market) gets the nod.

note: I know I've said I'd jump over to support them if they bring games, but on reflection, it's a tough move for sure.

Yes it means Orcas games here BUT it's still not easy to leave 25+ years of Warriors support, then there's the "Chip on our shoulder" that Wellington sports fans have about Christchurch/Canterbury teams.

Not an easy sell.

If I was PVL I would just invite the Super teams over to the NRL

 

[titoelcolombiano]

Yeah, that's going to be interesting, and with NZ 2 likely to be based in Christchurch, Wellington potentially becomes battleground territory.

Without a doubt, the Warriors will have to stop playing their home-away-from-home game(s) in Christchurch.. and if/when NZ 2 is announced, they're well within their rights to pivot to Wellington.

What makes it interesting is that the Orcas bid wants to include Wellington while the Kea bid appears to be content with the South Island.

If Kea wins, it's an easy decision for the Warriors to revert to Wellington as a secondary market.

As a Wellington based Warriors fan, I have to say I'd be conflicted if the Orcas (keen on us as a secondary market) gets the nod.

note: I know I've said I'd jump over to support them if they bring games, but on reflection, it's a tough move for sure.

Yes it means Orcas games here BUT it's still not easy to leave 25+ years of Warriors support, then there's the "Chip on our shoulder" that Wellington sports fans have about Christchurch/Canterbury teams.

Not an easy sell.

Just support both then. I'm a Broncos and Dolphins member and I'm loving having more games to go to