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Non Footy Chat Thread II

Avenger

Immortal
Messages
34,146
I'd like to believe it Avy but I am not 100% convinced just yet.

The video in the article which shows the 'soul' leaving the body after a car accident is a fake btw. Just did a quick check.
I know it's fake. As are all of those type of videos. Look I believe in god. Not necessarily everything like Adam and Eve but I believe that we have a soul and that there is something out there. I just found it interesting that a well respected Scientist who is also an atheist has similar views.
 

Gronk

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
77,772
I found this interesting. This scientist is an atheist but still believes in some type of life after death. Yes I got it from the other site. Miatch who I see posts here now has similar beliefs to what I have. Hope he further elaborates here. As I hope others like Suity, Gronk, Delboy, Hindy111, hineyrulz, Joshuaeel, strides, Bazal, Stags, Pou, yy cheng,Colonel, HJ, emjaycee, Eelemenatry, Baz, Twiz, Gaz, Phantom and all of you other merkins should seeing it is the off season and there is nothing else to talk about except A League and the cricket which sucks massive arse.

http://www.express.co.uk/news/science/728897/LIFE-AFTER-DEATH-consciousness-continue-SOUL
As an agnostic I find any scientific theory interesting.

IIRC another merkin was also reseaching the soul and came up with 21 grams. By weighing a body within minutes before and after death.

http://www.historicmysteries.com/the-21-gram-soul-theory/
 
Messages
11,677
So I believe in God, and I believe in the soul etc.

Why? Primarily because I can feel it. There is a fundamental difference between life and non-life. There is a spirit to it. People claim this is hogswash..."feeling it" is a load of subjective crap and means nothing until "science" proves it. I see it differently, namely that if there is a spirit, a soul, then it would be something that we could intrinsically feel, something we could inherently distinguish from that which has no spirit. So, in that view, "feeling it" makes sense to me, as if this is how it should be.

Also, I feel that, these days, many, if not all, atheists hold their views because they do not want there to be anything bigger than them, anything they may have to, for lack of a better term, bow down to. It is modern narcissism at its finest. Atheism is convenient for their self-centredness.

But what is God, then?

I don't see The Bible as containing an accurate reflection of God. Elements of it? Sure, largely in terms of morality, but I can see a lot in other religions, too. Not so much Islam, apart from Sufism, but Judaism, Hinduism and Buddhism especially. So, I don't think God is some bearded dude sitting on a throne or whatever, and I don't think Genesis is even close to a true description of creation and/or early man.

Evolution is correct and the big bang caused the birth of the Universe. These are not subject to discussion, except perhaps in terms of fine tuning.

So what is God, then?

Non-interventionist, for a start. God set the Universe in motion, and created its laws, but stuff like parting the Red Sea? No. This is counter-intuitive to how God would work. Where's the success, the development, the spiritual evolution if God does everything for us? It wouldn't exist, so God does not physically intervene in the Universe. We are left to our own devices, so to speak, and must earn our own spiritual development.

Having said that, I believe God would have set certain things in motion to act as influencers of life (in our case, humanity). I'm continually freaked out by the perfection of the Moon and eclipses, especially in the context of how it would have driven our cultural and spiritual development. Perfect size, perfect shape at the perfect time. Set by God at the beginning of the Universe to time with humanity's existence to aid, or push, our development? Perhaps, as weird as that seems.

I also think that the Christ was a prophet. The Christ was part of the mechanism of the Universe, sent to tweak our spiritual direction from collective (or authority based) to an individual orientation (which is exactly the legacy that the Christ has left, even if humanity has screwed that up and distorted it). That doesn't mean that I believe that Christianity is the one true religion, as I see it as having been taken out of context (typical in terms of what humanity does). I do see the Christ, however, as possibly the most pivotal human in history.

So what about the soul? Is there Heaven, or Hell?

I don't think so. The underlying fundamental aspect of the Universe is the Law of the Conservation of Energy - there has always been the exact same amount of energy in the Universe from the first moment until now. It just simply gets recycled as something else.

If this was true, and Heaven/Hell existed...then think of an hourglass, with the sand being the spirit. Eventually, as souls pass through Earth...the sand runs out. Then what? The Universe becomes empty and devoid of life? That makes no sense. Or is the Universe timed to end at the same time as the spirit runs out? If this was true then it takes away our free will, as the timings of births and deaths would have to be predetermined. And God won't end the Universe whenever the spirit just runs out because, remember, God is not interventionist.

So how do we get around this? Reincarnation. This way, the spirit is recycled and, however long the Universe takes to end, we can have our free will to act (and procreate, and die) as we see fit. Reincarnation allows the Universe to maintain the Conservation of Energy and free will at the same time.

So, there you go. The way I see it, God exists, God is not interventionist, we have free will, the spirit is reincarnated and the Christ was the most important person in history.

For the record, I also believe in aliens (as in, they're here right now) as well as something like Atlantis. Oh, and the Illuminati.

Thanks for reading.
 

strider

Post Whore
Messages
78,989
I'm not very deep .... I only really believe things if they can be proven to me

I'd like to believe there is some special afterwards, cos what its dishing up now aint so crash hot ... but someones gotta prove it too me
 

phantom eel

First Grade
Messages
6,327
I also find it's interesting that science is now turning its methods to investigate the less obvious, less tangible things... and I include dark matter and quantum physics etc in that, along with the "supernatural".

Personally I don't believe in organised religion, and so don't believe that science now attending to these matters has anything to do with "theology"... since imo organised religions are more about power over people rather than explaining the unexplanable.

I can't help but believe there is more to "existence" that just life as we know it, even though I'm not convinced by the explanations of any of the word's numerous holy books or religions. But none of us can ever really know much about this unexplanable stuff while we're here, and any theory - scientific or religious - is either well intentioned guesswork, or a convenient resting point to avoid further reflection.

There's a long way to go before our tangible sceintific method can make headway in conceptualising these intangibles, but every glimpse of a slight advance in (accepted scientific) understanding of the universe, of the supernatural, of the "soul" and what happens to us is truly fascinating, and should give pause to question any notion - religious, theoretical, scientific - that any of us currently hold to be true.
 

phantom eel

First Grade
Messages
6,327
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Messages
42,876
I'm not very deep .... I only really believe things if they can be proven to me

I'd like to believe there is some special afterwards, cos what its dishing up now aint so crash hot ... but someones gotta prove it too me
I just said I can't f**ken prove it!!

Lol. But I also think not being able to prove it is partly the point. Everyone has to make up their own mind.
 

phantom eel

First Grade
Messages
6,327
They're both well worth a watch. The books were all good too... I think he got up to 2061 and 3001 as well?
 

bartman

Immortal
Messages
41,022
Just on reincarnation (as raised in HJ's post) my views have been changing a lot over the past five years, and I'm now quite open to the idea that there is some form of connection between life (lives) on earth and the regeneration of "souls".

I think it might be more complex than the simplistic one-for-one theory of reincarnation, and more towards the concept that our souls are all somehow interconnected, coming back together after life, and splitting off to form new life.

Perhaps this links the 28 gram theory (Gronk's link above) and our lack of knowledge about the universe's ark matter? Perhaps dark matter is the "incubator" or "common receptacle" of our "souls" when not embodied on earth? Of course all of this is unknowable and untestable, and at best merely a reflective thought experiement...

There are some theories linking souls to energy, and that imply learning done by a soul (part of the collective soul, as the theory goes) while on earth somehow results in the energy vibrating at a higher frequency, which then feeds back into/influences the energy of the collective soul upon a spirit's return from earth to the dark matter spiritual home (?).

I don't believe there is an interventionist "god" of any sort, and if a "god" set the creation of the universe (big bang/evolution) in motion I'm not convinced that must necessarily mean the same "god" is still active in any way, or that there is a need to answer to "it" - beyond respecting the miracles of nature as much as we can? All power to those who have formed their own beliefs that a god did/does exist/intervene - it's all fascinating stuuf that of course none of us can really "know".
 

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