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Non Footy Chat Thread II

Twizzle

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My kids tell me that these searches are usually based on the drug sniffer dog sitting down and indicating a positive sniff. They reckon that the sniff dogs are only right 40% of the time.

I don't know about 40% but the dogs can get it wrong a lot. It's still wrong tho, some of those girls are pretty young to be getting searched like that, especially if they were just sitting in the same room or car where their mates were smoking weed.
 

Gary Gutful

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My kids tell me that these searches are usually based on the drug sniffer dog sitting down and indicating a positive sniff. They reckon that the sniff dogs are only right 40% of the time.
Since when are your kids experts on sniffer dogs? Unless, they are massive drug merchants.

Either you've been lied to or you have drug peddling children.

Regardless, I wish you well.
 

Gronk

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Since when are your kids experts on sniffer dogs? Unless, they are massive drug merchants.

Either you've been lied to or you have drug peddling children.

Regardless, I wish you well.

It’s more topical than you think.


s=21

 

Bandwagon

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Since when are your kids experts on sniffer dogs? Unless, they are massive drug merchants.

Either you've been lied to or you have drug peddling children.

Regardless, I wish you well.

For the most part you're talking possession here, a misdemeanour often enforced with a small fine.

Yet in order to enforce it we have have people detained and strip searched. Which seems to me a very disproportionate response, particularly when we are talking about the only "evidence" seemingly required to trigger that response is coming from a f**king dog.
 

Gary Gutful

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For the most part you're talking possession here, a misdemeanour often enforced with a small fine.

Yet in order to enforce it we have have people detained and strip searched. Which seems to me a very disproportionate response, particularly when we are talking about the only "evidence" seemingly required to trigger that response is coming from a f**king dog.
How else do we do it in a way thats fair? Or do we just turn a blind eye and let people get completely f**k eyed?
 

Bandwagon

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How else do we do it in a way thats fair? Or do we just turn a blind eye and let people get completely f**k eyed?

In what f**ked up alternate reality is the process of strip searching any person ( let alone say a teenage girl ) for the sake of enforcing prohibition remotely "fair".

Again, for the most part we're talking possession here, if you're genuinely concerned about the dangers of drug consumption, then maybe have a look at the results of the trials on free drug testing at events as a better method than stripping some poor kid naked and demanding a better view of their crack.
 

Gary Gutful

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In what f**ked up alternate reality is the process of strip searching any person ( let alone say a teenage girl ) for the sake of enforcing prohibition remotely "fair".

Again, for the most part we're talking possession here, if you're genuinely concerned about the dangers of drug consumption, then maybe have a look at the results of the trials on free drug testing at events as a better method than stripping some poor kid naked and demanding a better view of their crack.
I'm not suggesting that strip searching is fair. I'm asking you whether there is a way enforce the law that is fair. From your response I assume you are advocating for unfettered access to drugs but with testing to make sure they can do it 'safely'.

Fair enough. Thats been a roaring success with alcohol.
 

Bandwagon

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I'm not suggesting that strip searching is fair. I'm asking you whether there is a way enforce the law that is fair. From your response I assume you are advocating for unfettered access to drugs but with testing to make sure they can do it 'safely'.

Fair enough. Thats been a roaring success with alcohol.

You assume wrongly. I do think though that the level and method of policing and punishment should be proportionate to the offence committed, or being policed.

Oh, and prohibition worked a treat with alcohol, so maybe there's room for an approach between prohibition and a free for all.
 

Gary Gutful

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You assume wrongly. I do think though that the level and method of policing and punishment should be proportionate to the offence committed, or being policed.

Oh, and prohibition worked a treat with alcohol, so maybe there's room for an approach between prohibition and a free for all.
What does that level and method of policing and punishment look like? So far, all you've suggested is drug testing but I don't think that will work on its own.

Would you support a damn good kick up the kybher?
 

Bandwagon

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What does that level and method of policing and punishment look like? So far, all you've suggested is drug testing but I don't think that will work on its own.

Would you support a damn good kick up the kybher?

I guess it depends upon what you want to prevent, if it's people blowing a joint I'd say pretty much nothing is required, if you're trying to stop merkins popping shit pills and dying, then the pill testing thing showed plenty of promise.

If you're trying to eradicate the evil scourge of all drugs ever, maybe the tactical response group should be re-formed.

But really, a police presence, who could search merkins without going to the extreme of stripping them naked, would be far more acceptable, it's still gonna be abused by some, but at least the level of abuse would be far less.

Here's a story on accuracy........


........I'd highlight the last quote there...

"Although some admissions may support the accuracy of drug detection dogs in picking up the scent of prohibited drugs, this should not be confused with the accuracy of the dogs detecting persons currently in possession of prohibited drugs, which is the purpose for their use."

Now when you look at the numbers listed in that article, it seems to me that if more often than not the "evidence" being used to justify a strip search is shown to be wrong, then it's unreasonable to use it as primary, or indeed the only test by which to determine such a search is justifiable.

Particularly when you consider their use in what is deemed "high risk" places or events, because if those places or events are actually "high risk", then you'd expect a statistically significant success rate from simply picking random merkins out of the crowd.

I guess another way to look at it would be would you be supportive of expanding this method of policing to regularly being used on everyday merkins in situations like going to Westfield's at Parra for a bit of shopping, or wandering around Martin Place at lunchtime?

To make a comparison on a more contemporary level, until recent changes to the law here in NSW, police could not demand to see a medical exemption for merkins not wearing masks in contravention of public health orders because the privacy act protects peoples right to privacy over health matters. Yet they could strip search those same merkins because a dog that cannot distinguish between residual traces of a drug and the actual presence of a drug indicates that person may be in possession of a drug.

I think that's indicative of how those that craft legislation think about how different classes or demographics of folks should be afforded protections under the law.
 

Twizzle

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There are plenty of less invasive ways of drug testing without strip searching teenagers


From what I have read and heard reported on Triple J, they all produce false positives much like teh sniffer dogs but obviously less invasive.
 

Twizzle

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On the matter of pill testing, it should be mandatory at all concerts imo.

We've heard ScoMo say it will never be legislated as he does not support drugs, which is typical of his spin doctoring, no one was suggesting that.

If a kid makes a bad decision at a young age, they should not have to pay with their life.
 

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