Non Footy Chat Thread II

[Gary Gutful]

Can't agree Gary. I think public outrage is actually the right way to go...whether it's against imbeciles who believe in this garbage or those that commit it.

I also can't agree that no one takes this guy seriously. According to their website

"the Australian Federation of Islamic Councils Inc (AFIC), as the national umbrella organisation for Australian Muslims representing Islam and Muslims at a national and international level. AFIC has its head office in Sydney with branch offices in Melbourne.

As a democratic organisation, AFIC holds Federal Council Meetings with all State and Territory affiliates quarterly and an Annual Congress with all State , Territory Councils and Societies participating. The AFIC Committee of Management is elected every three years by the Annual Congress."

He was democratically elected so he represents at least some of the community who obviously take him seriously.

http://muslimsaustralia.com.au/about-us/

That's fine mate. I am happy to agree to disagree.

All of the communications texts I have read and experiences I have had in this space highlight that responding to really obviously 'out there' stuff turns something that was likely to have a lifespan of 5 mins into more of a story than it should be.

It also means that the minority of people who support Trad (including the idiots who elected him) will only dig their heels in further. Plus it plays into f**kstick Bolts hands who wants you to be outraged.

 

[Gary Gutful]

So you're saying gronk needs to stop posting every time trump farts the wrong way?

Please say yes

Yes.

 

[Happy MEel]

If you watch this, Bolt is all about the gotcha moment because (goody goody) he has found a passage in the koran than says you can beat your wife as a last resort.


Not condoning the Koran (isn't it spelt with a Q?) of course, however to be consistent, I will leave these Bible quotes here...

When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will not be freed at the end of six years as the men are. If she does not please the man who bought her, he may allow her to be bought back again. But he is not allowed to sell her to foreigners, since he is the one who broke the contract with her. And if the slave girl's owner arranges for her to marry his son, he may no longer treat her as a slave girl, but he must treat her as his daughter. If he himself marries her and then takes another wife, he may not reduce her food or clothing or fail to sleep with her as his wife. If he fails in any of these three ways, she may leave as a free woman without making any payment. (Exodus 21:7-11 NLT)

If a man is caught in the act of raping a young woman who is not engaged, he must pay fifty pieces of silver to her father. Then he must marry the young woman because he violated her, and he will never be allowed to divorce her. (Deuteronomy 22:28-29 NLT)

However, you may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way. (Leviticus 25:44-46)

When you go out to war against your enemies and the LORD, your God, delivers them into your hand, so that you take captives, if you see a comely woman among the captives and become so enamored of her that you wish to have her as wife, you may take her home to your house. But before she may live there, she must shave her head and pare her nails and lay aside her captive's garb. After she has mourned her father and mother for a full month, you may have relations with her, and you shall be her husband and she shall be your wife. However, if later on you lose your liking for her, you shall give her her freedom, if she wishes it; but you shall not sell her or enslave her, since she was married to you under compulsion. (Deuteronomy 21:10-14 NAB)

The two angels came to Sodom in the evening, and Lot was sitting in the gate of Sodom. When Lot saw them, he rose to meet them and bowed himself with his face to the earth please turn aside to your servant’s house and spend the night sand wash your feet. Then you may rise up early and go on your way.” They said, “No; we will spend the night in the town square.” And they called to Lot, “Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us, that we may know them.” Behold, I have two daughters who have not known any man. Let me bring them out to you, and do to them as you please. Only do nothing to these men, for they have come under the shelter of my roof.” (Genesis 19:1–11)

Sections of the bible are as irrelevant in modern society as sections of the Koran. They both need a major overhaul. However, I don't see leaders of the Catholic Church saying it's ok to beat your wife if nothing else works.

 

[Gary Gutful]

If you watch this, Bolt is all about the gotcha moment because (goody goody) he has found a passage in the koran than says you can beat your wife as a last resort.


Not condoning the Koran (isn't it spelt with a Q?) of course, however to be consistent, I will leave these Bible quotes here...

When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will not be freed at the end of six years as the men are. If she does not please the man who bought her, he may allow her to be bought back again. But he is not allowed to sell her to foreigners, since he is the one who broke the contract with her. And if the slave girl's owner arranges for her to marry his son, he may no longer treat her as a slave girl, but he must treat her as his daughter. If he himself marries her and then takes another wife, he may not reduce her food or clothing or fail to sleep with her as his wife. If he fails in any of these three ways, she may leave as a free woman without making any payment. (Exodus 21:7-11 NLT)

If a man is caught in the act of raping a young woman who is not engaged, he must pay fifty pieces of silver to her father. Then he must marry the young woman because he violated her, and he will never be allowed to divorce her. (Deuteronomy 22:28-29 NLT)

However, you may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way. (Leviticus 25:44-46)

When you go out to war against your enemies and the LORD, your God, delivers them into your hand, so that you take captives, if you see a comely woman among the captives and become so enamored of her that you wish to have her as wife, you may take her home to your house. But before she may live there, she must shave her head and pare her nails and lay aside her captive's garb. After she has mourned her father and mother for a full month, you may have relations with her, and you shall be her husband and she shall be your wife. However, if later on you lose your liking for her, you shall give her her freedom, if she wishes it; but you shall not sell her or enslave her, since she was married to you under compulsion. (Deuteronomy 21:10-14 NAB)

The two angels came to Sodom in the evening, and Lot was sitting in the gate of Sodom. When Lot saw them, he rose to meet them and bowed himself with his face to the earth please turn aside to your servant’s house and spend the night sand wash your feet. Then you may rise up early and go on your way.” They said, “No; we will spend the night in the town square.” And they called to Lot, “Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us, that we may know them.” Behold, I have two daughters who have not known any man. Let me bring them out to you, and do to them as you please. Only do nothing to these men, for they have come under the shelter of my roof.” (Genesis 19:1–11)

If someone thought that there were ratings to be had by interviewing George Pell and grilling him on all of the despicable parts of the Bible then they would.

 

[Gary Gutful]

Sections of the bible are as irrelevant in modern society as sections of the Koran. They both need a major overhaul. However, I don't see leaders of the Catholic Church saying it's ok to beat your wife if nothing else works.

Have we asked them?

 

[Happy MEel]

That's fine mate. I am happy to agree to disagree.

All of the communications texts I have read and experiences I have had in this space highlight that responding to really obviously 'out there' stuff turns something that was likely to have a lifespan of 5 mins into more of a story than it should be.

It also means that the minority of people who support Trad (including the idiots who elected him) will only dig their heels in further. Plus it plays into f**kstick Bolts hands who wants you to be outraged.

Yep happy to agree to disagree on this one mate.

Unfortunately DV isn't as 'out there' as it should be, and IMO society as a whole need to be reminded it's not on. Comments such as this only justifies the actions of those that commit such offences.

 

[Happy MEel]

Have we asked them?

Not that I know of but feel free to do so and I'll be equally outraged if they provide a similar response.

 

[Suitman]

I'm not sure why we are discussing paragraphs of a document published or written in 700 BC, when the laws of this land are quite straight forward and clearly override such an ancient line of thinking.
Some Muslim men who believe in this document might think it is ok to be physical towards a woman, but I think I'd rather leave it the courts of our land to decide that, who incidentally, will hold the final jurisdiction.

 

[Gronk]

I'm not sure why we are discussing paragraphs of a document published or written in 700 BC, when the laws of this land are quite straight forward and clearly override such an ancient line of thinking.
Some Muslim men who believe in this document might think it is ok to be physical towards a woman, but I think I'd rather leave it the courts of our land to decide that, who incidentally, will hold the final jurisdiction.

Well I think that most muslim men would not think that it's OK to beat their wives just as much as christian men selling their daughters to slavery.

The outrage is by the far right who seem to be cherry picking old verses and delighting in muslim scholars fumble over them.

These are the same merkins who were outraged by the media attention to George Pell and said that the Royal Commission into Institutional Abuse of Children was a political stunt.

People who live in glass houses ....

 

[Happy MEel]

Well I think that most muslim men would not think that it's OK to beat their wives just as much as christian men selling their daughters to slavery.

The outrage is by the far right who seem to be cherry picking old verses and delighting in muslim scholars fumble over them.

These are the same merkins who were outraged by the media attention to George Pell and said that the Royal Commission into Institutional Abuse of Children was a political stunt.

People who live in glass houses ....

I can assure you I'm not from the extreme right. In fact, if anything, I lean marginally to the left. What I am is anti DV, no matter who is committing it and I can't see Why there is objection to being disgusted with those comments.

I couldn't give two shits what the bible or Kuran says. They are ancient relics that were created in a primitive era. I care how they are applied in today's world.

 

[Gary Gutful]

Yep happy to agree to disagree on this one mate.

Unfortunately DV isn't as 'out there' as it should be, and IMO society as a whole need to be reminded it's not on. Comments such as this only justifies the actions of those that commit such offences.

The issue isn't as simple as 'DV' though is it? It's about the propensity of DV within the Muslim world which is an entirely different argument. By responding with outrage to Bolt's show one could assume that you have a problem with Muslims rather than DV. It would be an incorrect assumption from what I can gather but it highlights the issue around fuelling any deliberately inflammatory news items.

 

[Gary Gutful]

In short:

Happy MEel is black and white on DV irrespective of where it is.

Other Bolt supporters perhaps aren't or are arguably more concerned with Muslims than they are DV.

 

[Happy MEel]

The issue isn't as simple as 'DV' though is it? It's about the propensity of DV within the Muslim world which is an entirely different argument. By responding with outrage to Bolt's show one could assume that you have a problem with Muslims rather than DV. It would be an incorrect assumption from what I can gather but it highlights the issue around fuelling any deliberately inflammatory news items.

Well you know what they say about assumptions...

If it helps I was equally disgusted (if not moreso) of the atrocities that occurred in the Catholic Church.

DV is more prevalent than many may think so keeping quiet is akin to putting your head in the sand.

Hypothetically speaking, if the Arch Bishop of Sydney or the Prime Minister were to come out and make the same comments would it be ok to be outraged?

If so, then why does this prick get a free pass because he is Muslim?

 

[Happy MEel]

In short:

Happy MEel is black and white on DV irrespective of where it is.

Other Bolt supporters perhaps aren't or are arguably more concerned with Muslims than they are DV.

Correct...although please don't label me a Bolt supporter, I can't stand the merkin.

 

[eels81236]

@Suitman @Gronk I recall you guys saying you've an interest in the bullet train. There is a train series on channel 7 featuring the bullet train tonight. Just giving you a heads up.

 

[Haynzy]

It's not. I don't believe in his government mind control / secret society rubbish nor do i believe in that imaginary friend that has caused so many fights and single handedly f**ked over this world.

I know this was a few days ago but for the record, and as a Christian, I don't believe in either of those things either.

 

[Gronk]

@Suitman @Gronk I recall you guys saying you've an interest in the bullet train. There is a train series on channel 7 featuring the bullet train tonight. Just giving you a heads up.

Thanks I'll IQ it.

 

[Gary Gutful]

Well you know what they say about assumptions...

If it helps I was equally disgusted (if not moreso) of the atrocities that occurred in the Catholic Church.

DV is more prevalent than many may think so keeping quiet is akin to putting your head in the sand.

Hypothetically speaking, if the Arch Bishop of Sydney or the Prime Minister were to come out and make the same comments would it be ok to be outraged?

If so, then why does this prick get a free pass because he is Muslim?

It isn't about giving anyone a free pass. The guy is a dick, we all agree on that.

I am talking about not inadvertently fuelling Bolt's hateful messages about Muslims by reacting in the way that he wants.

You aren't doing this, because we have exchanged posts and I am clear on your position. However, I am sure there are many instances where this doesn't occur.

 

[Gary Gutful]

Correct...although please don't label me a Bolt supporter, I can't stand the merkin.

Apologies. That wasn't intentional.

I would never stoop that low and call someone that.

 

[Happy MEel]

Apologies. That wasn't intentional.

I would never stoop that low and call someone that.

Hahaha. All good mate. I thought as much but just wanted to make it clear to anyone who happened to come in on the end of the conversation.

I think we're in agreement of soughts and it has been good healthy debate.