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Non Footy Chat Thread II

Gronk

Moderator
Staff member
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77,720
Strides is the talk right that a lot of coding is now done off shore (India ) and that impacts on Aussie programmers and their future employability?
 

emjaycee

Coach
Messages
13,853
Strides is the talk right that a lot of coding is now done off shore (India ) and that impacts on Aussie programmers and their future employability?

Not just India - a fair bit is done in Eastern Europe these days as well.
Anywhere where the local government has invested heavily in tertiary education and then followed that up with incentives for local businesses to hire local graduates.
Of course any country with a lower cost of living also becomes a suitable candidate providing they have a suitably skilled workforce.

Interestingly there is a slow realisation by a lot of western based business' that off-shore coding (and for that matter testing and support of IT systems) doesn't always work out cheaper when the effort to re-work and re-test due to problems caused by language, cultural and communication differences are taken into account.

Too bad the basic hourly wage demand is so much higher here.
 

hybrideel

Bench
Messages
4,101
It seems these days that almost everything that can be done remotely is or will be moved off-shore. My kids are still young but when it comes time for them to look for a career we will need to an ahead and work out what requires you to be physically present to do the job because that will be the only safe option
 

Kornstar

Coach
Messages
15,578
Not just India - a fair bit is done in Eastern Europe these days as well.
Anywhere where the local government has invested heavily in tertiary education and then followed that up with incentives for local businesses to hire local graduates.
Of course any country with a lower cost of living also becomes a suitable candidate providing they have a suitably skilled workforce.

Interestingly there is a slow realisation by a lot of western based business' that off-shore coding (and for that matter testing and support of IT systems) doesn't always work out cheaper when the effort to re-work and re-test due to problems caused by language, cultural and communication differences are taken into account.

Too bad the basic hourly wage demand is so much higher here.

Yep, they are f**king useless and the amount of rework we have had to do from their dodgy work has blown out the costs of our implementation.

Cheaper is not better.

In my industry we are heavily localised so having anyone from outside of Aus working on Aus systems sets us back immensely.

I'm in government so our tax dollars pay for it but for private industry it lows my mind that saving a few dollars upfront is worth the pain that comes later.
 

Incorrect

Coach
Messages
12,800
I sent strider a PM last night... Turns out me and strider probably sat no more than 10-15 metres away from each other when I used to work at the same place he does... what a spin out! Small world...
 
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Bigfella

Coach
Messages
10,102
It's just the way the world is going.

Even this forum has apparently outsourced most of its arguments, bullshit and ignorance to and Indian
 

Avenger

Immortal
Messages
34,117
I'm a descendent from the great Spartacus. That's what my grandfather told me. No shit.

PS I know it's 99.9% bullshit.
 

strider

Post Whore
Messages
78,988
Strides is the talk right that a lot of coding is now done off shore (India ) and that impacts on Aussie programmers and their future employability?

Yeah for some reason companies see it as a viable option, but as the other guys said it comes back to bite you most of the time. Well that is my experience.

There was a massive piece of work to build a new cms at work recently. I cant judge it too much cos i was largely excluded from the massive project for 2 years, which i actually take great pride in cos frankly its a disaster, ... anyway, they did have 2 different offshore teams doing chunks of the work, but also hired masses of people locally too, mostly on contract. I do a fair bit of the interviewing and the vast majority of people we get are indian/asian trying to get any position so they can stay in australia.

I have never been a fan of out sourcing development. I even worked as a consultant with a company in australia for many years being one of the merkins doing the work. So i have been on both sides of the fence. In my experience it is destined for failure.

The amount of upfront work alone, to adequately document requirements and explain detail probably offsets any bloody cost saving. Then inevitably that upfront work is never done and so the end result is completely shit and then the cost of fixing and maintaining it after is mind blowing.

One of the main problems is that you actually have no real idea of who is doing the work and whether they are competant. Tho you soon learn. Alot of the companies are just body shops who flip staff around. There is no knowledge build up and its a constant procession of people making the same mistakes.

I honestly cannot understand why companies do it. I can only assume the people making decisions have no prior experience and stupidly stumble into it with no idea. Of course they also dont listen to their staff who suggest its not a good idea ;-)

I honestly dont know if it has affected jobs heavily here in australia because I have been in the same job for about 9 years now. Tbh i suspect companies might be learning a hard lesson with out sourcing overseas. I actually think the bigger threat to jobs is the flood of people coming here on visas who are willing to work cheaper.
 

strider

Post Whore
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78,988
I sent strider a PM last night... Turns out me and strider probably sat no more than 10-15 metres away from each other when I used to work at the same place he does... what a spin out! Small world...

Yeah im sure we would have an ohhhhh i know you moment if we met :lol:

I am the merkin with a parra coffee mug ... tbh i find there arent many people i have been involved with at fairfax who are into league ... either no interest or union fans. Theres very few people i regularly discuss footy with.
 

Incorrect

Coach
Messages
12,800
Yeah im sure we would have an ohhhhh i know you moment if we met :lol:

I am the merkin with a parra coffee mug ... tbh i find there arent many people i have been involved with at fairfax who are into league ... either no interest or union fans. Theres very few people i regularly discuss footy with.

Yeah I know what you mean, most of the Windows and Unix Engineer's I was knew back in the day were pretty much not in to sport at all... not your complete stereotypical geeks, but more likely to talk about the latest fibre attached storage arrays coming out from HP on a Monday morning as opposed to who won the footy over the weekend! :lol:

It's even more extreme now that the boys from CapGem are handling most of the engineering, though I guess thay'd probably talk nothing but cricket all day every day!!

On the whole outsourcing thing, my missus works for a bank and they outsourced some of their backoffice loan processing work a few years back but are now looking at bringing it back in-house I think. Like has been mentioned already, it just created more headaches than it wasworth - delays, mistakes, oversights etc etc...
 

Gary Gutful

Post Whore
Messages
53,066
Pretty sure I worked with you guys as well. I was the one who watched porn all day and had multiple 'meetings' in the toilets.
 

SDM

First Grade
Messages
7,600
The second most important tool for allowing effective "communication" during Gary's toilet meetings;

Bi-Metal-Hole-Saw.jpg
 

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