Notional Values as a Salary Cap. To Stop Rorting figures.

[TRANSLATION]

Im at a loss as to how the NRL who I regard as incompetent, can let clubs show that they pay players " x " amount, when they are worth $100's of Thousands of $$$$ More.

The NRL should have kept the notional values that came during the Super league war, when they set up this notional Value. If they could use it then, they can Use it again.

For EG: Lets use the dragons as an Example.

Test players
Barrett Should be on a Notional value of $400,000k.. But due to his non appearances and Below par form, he could be able to play as a $350k player the following year.

Bailey $260,000 Value

Timmo $200,000 Value Due to his knees. He would get some Leeway.

Gasnier$240,000 Value Could claim a Smaller Value the Following year due to injuries and Time off, Lets say he spent half the year out, the club should get some Value back off him the following year. Drop him to $200k.

Ryles $260,000 Value. Same as Gasnier, Due to injuries, could get a smaller Notional Value due to not playing enough games.

Hornby $100k
Tingha $180k
Gasnier $240k
Cooper $100k
Creagh $50k Award Wage
Barrett $400k
Firman $80k
Timmins $220k
Kite $80k
Thommo $240k
Ryles $260k
Riddell $160k
Bails $260k
--------------------
Young $70k
Sims $70k
Perenara $80k
Bower $60k
Penny $80k
Stapes $80k
Wilshire $60k
Byrne $60k
Simmonds $70k
Howell $60k
M Howell $70k
Donnelly $80k

This would Give the Club a notional Value for it's Top 25 players at $3.210

Which is around the ballpark for 3.25 Million. :!:

Now, these lets say are the figures that the Club Must use as it's basis. They can pay the player a little less or a little more. But they just cant go and buy 3 Top grade players and say they are paying them Peanuts, Because they want to play for the Club. That's wrong, and open to Mind boggling interpretations. It does the game no favours when fans start speculating, what this bloke or that bloke is getting in return for his peanuts.

The NRL IMHO, is leaving itself open to get caught out. Soon we will have players earning NOTHING, living in tents at caravan Parks. Yet living the High Life ??
It does not make sense, and Rumours start. :shock:

A Point system, a grading players system could also work, What is not working is the current salary cap. And the way the clubs are going about their bussiness today.

Id Like to hear your views.

 

[TRANSLATION]

Btw,

There should be no ZERO payment + incentive Schemes. The minimum wage must be in force, which is $50k as of 2004.

Clubs can make it up by paying exhauberant ( Spelling ?) match payments. To me that Stinks.

 

[saintess]

I'm just curious stgillaman, are those figures true or guesses?

 

[TRANSLATION]

I'm just curious stgillaman, are those figures true or guesses?

Some are true or Thereabouts, Most are guesses.

But the point im trying to make is, is that the NRL should Value them, with input from each club in regards to game time, Injuries, suspensions and their true worth.
They wont find it hard to do at all.

 

[saintess]

ok, thanxxxx ..... i totally agree.

 

[Anonymous]

Stgillaman and Saintess. Welcome to TFR.

I think to value a player's worth on injury is a hard one to police. Its just possible that player injuries are the club's fault as well.

On the other hand, I'm all in favour of clubs getting salary cap concessions for nuturing juniors... especially if those juniors turn into rep players.

 

[saintess]

Thanx Willow xxx How is ya? .... long time no see.
We both know how i feel about injuries to players being the clubs fault, but I wont go there ;-)

 

[Buzz Boy]

Who would be given the frightening and thankless task of conjuring up these notional values?

Should a player such as Brent Tate be on the same notional value as Andrew Johns?

They both play for Australia.

Mark Gasnier and Nathan Blacklock have also been presented with Test jerseys... but I seriously doubt they could be classed in the same 'value' bracket as Johns or Fittler.

The NRL can do one of two things...

Spend alot of money on having a large legal team going through the books of all NRL clubs and their sponsors/benefactors each month to try and catch any cheats with their guard down (mistakes happen... that's how the Bulldogs were sprung).

or...

Forget the salary cap!!!

Let teams live and die by their own business acumen and the stongest will survive. Once you get down to a 10 or 12 team comp, there's only so many first grade spots available, so it becomes a give and take attitude by both clubs and players. No one club is going to 'hog' all the top players, because the top players want to play each week, not sit on the bench in some convoluted player rotation system.

DITCH THE SALARY CAP!!!

Goodbye to weak clubs who can't afford to buy the top players and are currently unable (or unwilling) to develop juniors to save themselves... Sharks, Bunnies, Tigers... etc.



That's my two-cents worth.

 

[Southernsaint]

Stgillaman,

Do you really trust the NRL, who have shown blinding incompetence when it comes to policing our current salary cap, to apply subjective notional values across the fifteen teams fairly?? The NRL "Partnership" has already shown that its salary cap rules are nothing more than a paper tiger - as shown in the laughable "deferred bonus" scam currently being run by C*nterbury.

In my opinion, the salary cap should be raised to approximately $4 million, if accepted by two thrids of the clubs in the NRL & a motion should be passed allowing between 10% & 15% of all 10 year service players to be dis-counted from the cap.

There should be concessions for local juniors & players developed by clubs from a young age, but would this simply see clubs like Easts signing up every kid running around on the off chance that they'lll uncover a diamond?? There would definently be a need for strong, independant, policing of this policy.

Sorry if I sound bitter or cynical about the worth of the salary cap but I just cannot see the point in teams like Saints abiding by it when it's quite obvious that other teams aren't. It'll only ever work if we're all pulling in the same direction.

Cheers,
Ben S.

 

[TRANSLATION]

I think to value a player's worth on injury is a hard one to police. Its just possible that player injuries are the club's fault as well.
Yes, But a players value to a club could drop if he plays 8 games per year, and his injury is such that he cant play on a weekly basis. Their is a case for the Club to be able to drop his notional value by a amount to be determined, if this is the case.

On the other hand, I'm all in favour of clubs getting salary cap concessions for nuturing juniors... especially if those juniors turn into rep players.[/quote][/color]

Me Too. Clubs should always be able to have discounts for Juniors. No matter how many of them make. It's Currently 1 player 100k. Should be as many players as they want, with $50k each. If 10 then $500k

 

[TRANSLATION]

Who would be given the frightening and thankless task of conjuring up these notional values?

Should a player such as Brent Tate be on the same notional value as Andrew Johns?

They both play for Australia.

Mark Gasnier and Nathan Blacklock have also been presented with Test jerseys... but I seriously doubt they could be classed in the same 'value' bracket as Johns or Fittler.

The NRL can do one of two things...

Spend alot of money on having a large legal team going through the books of all NRL clubs and their sponsors/benefactors each month to try and catch any cheats with their guard down (mistakes happen... that's how the Bulldogs were sprung).

or...

Forget the salary cap!!!

Let teams live and die by their own business acumen and the stongest will survive. Once you get down to a 10 or 12 team comp, there's only so many first grade spots available, so it becomes a give and take attitude by both clubs and players. No one club is going to 'hog' all the top players, because the top players want to play each week, not sit on the bench in some convoluted player rotation system.

DITCH THE SALARY CAP!!!

Goodbye to weak clubs who can't afford to buy the top players and are currently unable (or unwilling) to develop juniors to save themselves... Sharks, Bunnies, Tigers... etc.



That's my two-cents worth.

----------------------------------------------------------------
Your 2c Worth is quite good.
But I think the Notional values on many players such as the Johns's and the Fitlers are easier to determine than the Brent Tates and the Blacklocks.

I have done one of these before , you can't always agree on a notional value of a player, but it will be thereabouts. Both Club and NRL could be set up to get an outcome.

Johns $500k..
Lockyear $450k
Fitler $400k... Coming into his twilight years, The Roosters should get some Dispensation as he is nearing the end of his Career. Drop it to $350
Gower $330k
Webke $320k
Tallis $320k
Sherwin$310k
Gower $300k

Etc..Etc..

 

[TRANSLATION]

Stgillaman,

Do you really trust the NRL, who have shown blinding incompetence when it comes to policing our current salary cap, to apply subjective notional values across the fifteen teams fairly?? The NRL "Partnership" has already shown that its salary cap rules are nothing more than a paper tiger - as shown in the laughable "deferred bonus" scam currently being run by C*nterbury.

In my opinion, the salary cap should be raised to approximately $4 million, if accepted by two thrids of the clubs in the NRL & a motion should be passed allowing between 10% & 15% of all 10 year service players to be dis-counted from the cap.

There should be concessions for local juniors & players developed by clubs from a young age, but would this simply see clubs like Easts signing up every kid running around on the off chance that they'lll uncover a diamond?? There would definently be a need for strong, independant, policing of this policy.

Sorry if I sound bitter or cynical about the worth of the salary cap but I just cannot see the point in teams like Saints abiding by it when it's quite obvious that other teams aren't. It'll only ever work if we're all pulling in the same direction.

Cheers,
Ben S.

Southersaint, I follow Greek Soccer. Every year, the same 4 teams finish top4. Why ?.. They are the Richest. I dont think another club has made the Top 4, in 15 years. Would you like that to happen with our game ?
I think the Clubs CEO's + the NRL could make this grading without to omuch trouble.
All they have to do is go by their Form, Injuries, Games per year played. Medical problems, Standing.
It wont be as easy as I make it out to be, But at the Dragons You could make a case that our best 10 is in Order from best to Not as good .

Barrett - has shown with a good halfback he is outstanding
Bailey
Ryles
Gasnier
Thommo
Blacklock
Riddell
Firman
Hornby
Cooper

These would be out top 10.. We would get a drop in notional values for.

Barrett, Ryles, Gasnier. Hence the amount of games they play for us.

 

[Southernsaint]

Stgillaman, I follow Scottish football so I know just how predictable a league can become with rampant spending.

What I am proposing is an increased cap with concessions for juniors & development players. My main concern, though, is the policing of the cap. I mean, the whole C*nterbury saga only came out into the open because a business reporter from the SMH stumbled across the scam & passed her information on to Roy masters who then blew the lid off. Until then, the whole thing had been missed by the NRL's supposed crack squad of cap auditors - people learn from mistakes & you can bet that any further rorts will be much more sophisticated...

Cheers,
Ben S.