NRL chief executive declares GWS has two years to avoid failure

[Brutus]

have you seen their club membership numbers... 45,000 each for collingwood and hawthorn...massive amounts of money from fans

they dont rely on pokies to survive wheres clubs like sharks do...

Take away the pokie money and several Melb AFL clubs would be struggling big time. Some are anyway.

AFL clubs in Melb love the pokie money just as much as they love the dik.

 

[Loudstrat]

Maybe they are altruistic and love the game more than the club? Or maybe they realise that a strong national comp has massive positive spin offs for their club. or maybe they realise that starting an expansion team in non heartland areas requires support?

I can't wait for the positive spin offs of the expansion team that recently broke the cap when the narrowly beat us in the grand final.

I am always happy when my team loses to an expansion side - I know the game is a little bit stronger for it. :roll:

While you're clearly pushing an agenda here, I do believe there is way more support for a national game coming from Melbourne AFL fans than there is from Sydney league fans. You only have to see some of the posters on this forum to realise that.

You'd obviously know more about AR discussion that I - is there a push to decimate Melbourne's clubs for expansion? Or do they think having a side in each state capital is "national" and threefore they will somehow roll in dough? Most League fans prefer to go where the fans are - does AFL know that places called Townsville and Newcastle exist?

 

[applesauce]

some NRL clubs have been living off pokie machines / people losing money on gambling misery to survive

Deadset you have NO IDEA! have a look at what the Lions tried to do....
Stratigically put 200 pokies in a "pokie pallace" in one of SEQ lowest socio-economic areas. :roll:

I am not saying the NRL/Clubs haven't exploited anyone but ffs the AFL are just as bad. Just like they are with players drinking, fighting, taking drugs, beating up their missus, sexual indiscretions etc. The AFL are consistently the pot calling the kettle black.

Pokies palace 'family entertainment': Lions
KATE DENNEHY
May 3, 2009

MANY more millions of dollars will be lost to gambling if the State Government allows the Brisbane Lions AFL club to build a "pokie palace" in Logan, anti-gambling advocates claim.

The club's plans for 200 machines at a Lions Den Social Club in Rochedale South took a leap forward last week when Logan City Council changed its stance against any increase to the number of machines in the area. (In October it decided that the 1300 pokies registered at 27 venues were more than enough.)

Club officials lobbied the council and the decision was overturned by eight votes to one last week. Logan, south of Brisbane, is home to Queensland's largest concentration of pokies.

More...

 

[Green Machine]

And yet Port Adelaide will lose $4.5 million this year and again next year despite being in a "heartland" area

Who’ll ever forget Christopher Skase’s Brisbane Bears. When Skase skipped the country, the Bears debts totalled $26m,

 

[DC_fan]

I suppose the question to be asked is can a country of Australias size support two profesional football codes?

Both teams have 16 teams (NRL with one NZ team). In two years time the AFL will have 18 teams and posibly the NRL will have the same number in 2013. Can 36 professional teams survive and more importantly can both competitions survive.

 

[dollyhands]

I seem to recall the Storm had success in its first two years, but that hadn't helped them grow their crowds before this year when they moved to Swan St.
Agree. when they moved to Swan st. from Swan st. they haven't looked back you farkin geniused butt farkin cant:crazy::crazy::crazy:

 

[Perth Red]

yes and yes. Question is which one will be dominating the sporting scene in 10 years time, can AFL really crack the NSW and Q'land markets? can NRL make a dent in Vic and WA? will the AFL lose its shirt on GWS? can the NRL ever get an IC that will maximise its income? Who ever gets it right over the next 2 TV deals will control the country for the rest of the century imo. Australia is only big enough for 1 $billion+ code the the other will be fighting with RU and soccer as a 2nd tier game in years to come, who ever develops the strongest foothold in the the others heartlands will win the battle.

 

[Evenflow]

Not arguing with that - but there is incongurity in the fans of Melbourne AFL clubs claiming to be the most passionate in the country (at times the world), yet they passively watch on while their club's chances of winning the premiership are handicapped.

You clearly live on the (inaccurate) theory that just because you ask a few people who may not mind Nout the concessions given to interstate teams that the vast majority of people share the same view which couldn't be further from the truth. You've clearly never lived in Victoria or mixed with a vast array of Aussie rules supporters because if you had you'd very much know that most of them have been nothing short of pissed off that the interstate teams have had the financial concessions they've had for so many years which has lead to the success that's it's given them.

I know they didn't mind the help all Interstate teams had In their formative years to get on their feet but I can tell you first hand when they had the decade or more of West coast, Brisbane, Adelaide and port Adelaide winning pretty much every year I can assure you that most Victorian fans were NOT saying "it's for the good of the game" Every teams supporters besides magpies dislike Eddie McGuire but the support he had from the opposisition when he was the main mouth piece in regards to putting an end to these interstate concessions was unprecedented because everyone knew how unfair they were. It's no surpise that ever since they were watered down heavily and in some cases stopped all together to the point it's a much fairer playing field that Vic clubs have won virtually every title since.

I don't deny your knowledge of our great game rugby league and would never question it, but when it comes to Australian Rules and the vast majority of (victorian) supporters, with all due respect you have no clue and your couple of posts in this thread prove that.

 

[Perth Red]

Whilst I don't agree with clubs being given on the field concessions, I do feel that the NRL should be providing more funding and support in other ways off the field to help new areas to grow. Areas such as FTA coverage, contra media support, $'s for marketing, $'s for jnr and amateur developments, NRL roadshows, representing teh game to State Govt etc etc should all be aprt of a master plan to expand the game succesfully.

 

[1 Eyed TEZZA]

If the salary cap was structured better, expansion teams (assuming that they are based in large cities, eg Perth and Wellington) wouldnt need salary cap concessions but players could earn better 3rd party deals in these cities because of less competition.

So, eg, Corey Patterson is being offered $250K from Newy + $30K from a 3rd party, but is also offered $250K + $80K from Perth. Its fair to say that Perth would have more 3rd Party companys that could offer that kind of money then Newcastle??

 

[Quidgybo]

Western Sydney AFL Team - Destined for failure.

AFL RECORD ON INTERSTATE EXPANSION

success
-Sydney
- Adelade
- Port Adelaide
- Freemenatle
-west coast
- Brisbane

I think their record in states speaks

Read all the fluffy pieces you like faffa, the facts are, the VFL has struggled as much as any other code in Australia when it comes to expansion.

Struggled, no argument there, but they've never retreated. No matter how painful or expensive the exercise they've stuck with it and put in the money necessary to make it work. Remember that evaluation of the AFL's expansion success was said in reply to an assertion that GWS were destined for failure. But based on the AFL's expansion record, GWS are here to stay and will be funded to whatever level is needed to ultimately make it a success. Arguing that the AFL are going to retreat and let GWS die after a few tough years is just wishful thinking. But fine, whatever, that's what they're doing. Of much more importance is the question of where our game is putting its expansion pegs in the ground for the long term and whether we'll support it when the going gets tough (as it has in Melbourne)?

Leigh.

 

[bobmar28]

It all comes down to Money .eg Sydney swans was subsidised for a while

apparently they are willing to put in alot of money

A lot of it is other peoples. Like the ACT governments financial backing of the GWS for instance.

 

[DC_fan]

yes and yes. Question is which one will be dominating the sporting scene in 10 years time, can AFL really crack the NSW and Q'land markets? can NRL make a dent in Vic and WA? will the AFL lose its shirt on GWS? can the NRL ever get an IC that will maximise its income? Who ever gets it right over the next 2 TV deals will control the country for the rest of the century imo. Australia is only big enough for 1 $billion+ code the the other will be fighting with RU and soccer as a 2nd tier game in years to come, who ever develops the strongest foothold in the the others heartlands will win the battle.

Trust it has to be someone from the west to speak some commonsense in this discussion.

I have no doubt that Australia is only big enough to support one major football code. Will it be AFL or the NRL. Right now in my opinion AFL has its head in front. But that could change in the years to come. I have not written off Soccer from becoming that sport either.

My thought is that maybe League shouldn't try to be the dominate sport in Australia. One advantage our game has over the AFL is that it is played overseas. Maybe we should take advantage of that and spread our competition internationally. In the decades to come I see sports spreading their competitions across countries. To use the EPL as an example. Right now it stands for English Premier League. I have no doubt within the next 20 years the EPL will stand for the European Premier League. For me its the natural progression of sport around the world.

So why shouldn't Rugby League here in Australia do the same thing? Lets plan for the future. To say that by 2040 that the NRL will have not just teams from Australia, but with more then one team from NZ. With teams from PNG and Asian countries like Indonesia, Singapore, China and Japan. Yes it would require a lot of work and money. For this to happen you need to start planning now. Not in 20 years from now, when it will be too late. This world is getting smaller by the day.

 

[m0nty]

I seem to recall the Storm had success in its first two years, but that hadn't helped them grow their crowds before this year when they moved to Swan St.

Agree. when they moved to Swan st. from Swan st. they haven't looked back you farkin geniused butt farkin cant:crazy::crazy::crazy:

You know what I mean. Also, learn to quote, merkin.

 

[Perth Red]

Seems to me that the futrue will be about who has a presence in the major population centres of the country. I would say we are a long way behind AFL, probably 25 years in reality in regards to this. Within a couple of years AFL will have 2 teams in Q'land, 2 in NSW, Vic sewn up, WA sewn up, Tassie sewn up, SA sewn up, regular games in Darwin, regular games in Canberra. In reality they have managed over the last few years to get a major presence in every "major" part of the country. You can ask about Townsville or Woolongong but in reality the AFL know full well that it is big cities that will determine the number 1 code in years to come. WA is a great example. If WA was NRL we would have put a team in Mandurah or Bunbury, AFL know that a team in that size population will never be able to compete financially so they put another team in Perth. The fact we only have one team in Brisbane shows our thinking and it is that thinking that I believe may well see us lose this war unless something radically different happens.
The fact we discount Adelaide whilst talking about Rockhampton is another example of the samll thinking paradigm we are in.

 

[RL1908]

You clearly live on the (inaccurate) theory that just because you ask a few people who may not mind Nout the concessions given to interstate teams that the vast majority of people share the same view which couldn't be further from the truth. You've clearly never lived in Victoria or mixed with a vast array of Aussie rules supporters because if you had you'd very much know that most of them have been nothing short of pissed off that the interstate teams have had the financial concessions they've had for so many years which has lead to the success that's it's given them.

I know they didn't mind the help all Interstate teams had In their formative years to get on their feet but I can tell you first hand when they had the decade or more of West coast, Brisbane, Adelaide and port Adelaide winning pretty much every year I can assure you that most Victorian fans were NOT saying "it's for the good of the game" Every teams supporters besides magpies dislike Eddie McGuire but the support he had from the opposisition when he was the main mouth piece in regards to putting an end to these interstate concessions was unprecedented because everyone knew how unfair they were. It's no surpise that ever since they were watered down heavily and in some cases stopped all together to the point it's a much fairer playing field that Vic clubs have won virtually every title since.

I don't deny your knowledge of our great game rugby league and would never question it, but when it comes to Australian Rules and the vast majority of (victorian) supporters, with all due respect you have no clue and your couple of posts in this thread prove that.

Mate, that's why I asked the question - I never made an assertion that I knew what was going on down there. Cheers for setting me straight on it - but where the heck is the renewed outcry against the leg up being given to the two new franchises?

 

[otori]

I can't wait for the positive spin offs of the expansion team that recently broke the cap when the narrowly beat us in the grand final.

I am always happy when my team loses to an expansion side - I know the game is a little bit stronger for it. :roll:



You'd obviously know more about AR discussion that I - is there a push to decimate Melbourne's clubs for expansion? Or do they think having a side in each state capital is "national" and threefore they will somehow roll in dough? Most League fans prefer to go where the fans are - does AFL know that places called Townsville and Newcastle exist?

I enjoy your correlation between expansion and rorting the cap. Does either code competently deal with expansion? Arguably, no. At least AFL fans aren't as insular as you. I've never lived in Sydney sure but I've lived in most of the places that want league teams (Port Moresby, Brisbane, Perth) and frankly, yeah AFL is national as compared to us because we ignore even those areas where the fans are.

Not that you will reasonably discuss this as I expect your response to be a billious tirade of vitriol typical of an old school Sydney RL fan

 

[duylm]

So why shouldn't Rugby League here in Australia do the same thing? Lets plan for the future. To say that by 2040 that the NRL will have not just teams from Australia, but with more then one team from NZ. With teams from PNG and Asian countries like Indonesia, Singapore, China and Japan. Yes it would require a lot of work and money. For this to happen you need to start planning now. Not in 20 years from now, when it will be too late. This world is getting smaller by the day.

Indonesia? Singapore? Sorry but that’s exactly the kind of arrogance that makes the AFL look foolish, lets not go down the same path. They’re about to play a game in China and are already dreaming of converting a billion people. They seem to think Kiwis and islanders are all closet AFL fans, and this Rugby business over there is just a passing fad. They ping a few goodie bags on kids at the easter show and ta-da there are 20,000 juniors in Western Sydney who wanna play the game for life. Just the other day there was an article talking about how AFL growth outstripped Rugby League Growth in Sydney over 5 years (36k v 34k or something) bringing the AFL total to about 45k, but I swear the last time a read an article on the subject it said it was 100k ‘participants’.

China? Japan? Let’s not overstate our case. Our non-independant-commission-run competition can’t even manage our own backyard, let alone embark on international projects (citing examples: David Gallop’s lack of authority over the origin racism row, QRL stalling the independent commission, can’t even get the Melbourne Storm to accept their punishment for what was the biggest corporate fraud in Australian sport). Win our own backyard first. one day; Wellington & PNG maybe.... but your 2040 timeframe might be more realistic for that.

 

[madunit]

I have always believed that the AFL's decision to have a team in GWS isn't an attempt to get young League players to swap codes.

It's an attempt to tap into that massive nursery they have in the rural area of NSW, mainly the Riverina region.

As CRL struggles every year and the NRL and NSWRL continue to do nothing, the AFL continues pumping cash and resources into these areas.

They used to have Group 9 and Group 13 in the Riverina - 2 league comps!

Now there's one and it covers a massive area, because players are going to AFL as teenagers instead of League.

It's a sad but true fact.

It doesn't matter if the GWS team wins premierships or not, if they can have a majorly influence on these bush areas, they will ultimately hurt League more than anything.

I'll take a stab in the dark and say that almost half of the NRL players at present are from outside major metropolitan areas. If the AFL can poach a lot of these kids simply by continuing to nurture grassroots AFL in the bush, as they have done, it could really create a massive problem for the future of Rugby league in the bush, and ultimately, the NRL.

Sydney and Brisbane Rugby League will survive any AFL invasion.

The rural areas won't. If one code starts pumping huge cash into their area, the majority of the community will instantly sway that way.

 

[Jamberoo]

Define failure.
GWS will draw crowds of 10 - 15k. Pass
TV ratings will be next to zero. Fail
The other measure is participation.
If they get playing numbers up, I'd call two out of three a success.

Like in Brisbane, the AFL will give GWS 10 years, then if it is failing send a Vic club there to merge.

NRL just needs more games on FTA across Australia.