NRL Expansion. Ideas and opinions.

[Bojackhorseman]

All true but until things change RL must fight fire with fire by poaching union schoolboy talent and by introducing NRL franchises in both wellington and Christchurch.

Its all so simple isn’t it

 

[Bojackhorseman]

Nope. That’s pretty much the 2 main areas covered right there, bigger crowds and a more lucrative TV deal.

Time for the NRL and RL in general to aim higher and raise their game. No???

The tv deal is almost identical. Trying to emulate afl crowds is a waste of time. It will not happen and it isn’t the issue anyway. But what the hell. Let’s just introduce half a dozen new clubs. The money and players will just suddenly appear. Simple!

 

[The Great Dane]

All true but until things change RL must fight fire with fire by poaching union schoolboy talent and by introducing NRL franchises in both wellington and Christchurch.

Do you know how much that costs and what the conversion rate is?

I'll tell you right now, it's extremely expensive and the conversion rate into first graders isn't all that great!

No if the NRL was going to expand that quickly they'd strip mine the ESL's talent first (which I think we can both agree wouldn't be a great thing for the game), then if the PI's talent pool hadn't grown quick enough they'd target Rugby 7's players and hope for the best (7's players seem to have a better conversion rate, particularly in the backs).

 

[Walter sobchak]

Sure the NRL could support 4 more teams over the next decade or so, but you are totally off your f**king head if you think the NRL could support 7 expansion clubs in ten years.

You'd totally tank the standards of the competition (and probably the ESL as well) as the growth in the talent pool through traditional means (i.e. developing juniors) definitely wouldn't be able to keep up with the pressure of adding 210 full time professional players over ten years.

If anything went wrong with any of the clubs the NRL wouldn't have the means to prop more than a few up at any one time, which would make it an incredibly risky proposition because if they started to fall over (and it's inevitable that some would struggle financially) then there'd be nobody to catch them as they fall, and you'd risk a repeat of the domino effect we were starting to see in the 90s when the NSWRL grew too big too fast without rationalising the competition first.

On top of all that, at the same time you'd be pushing this massive expansion drive the value of broadcasting rights are almost certainly going to start to drop, which will add an extra layer of risk because of the uncertainty of whether smaller sports leagues, such as the NRL, are going be able to attract similar value contracts through other means, namely streaming.

And because of the geographical spread of the clubs there's no way to do a balanced, and more importantly fair, conference system. You'd inevitably create a system that vastly favours one conference over the others (probably the one with the most Sydney clubs in it), so unless you are willing to accept that sacrifice, which I'm most certainly not, the whole idea is a total non-starter.

Basically, unless you rationalise Sydney in the process of this huge expansion push it's simply feasible to expand by that many clubs that quickly, and the chances of Sydney being rationalised arr slim to none!

2 Sydney teams could relocate to both the central coast and Illawarra. The obvious choices would be the sea eagles to central coast and the dragons to Illawarra permanently.

As for the 2 conference format you simply introduce crossover fixtures.

 

[Walter sobchak]

Its all so simple isn’t it

Could be.

 

[Walter sobchak]

The tv deal is almost identical. Trying to emulate afl crowds is a waste of time. It will not happen and it isn’t the issue anyway. But what the hell. Let’s just introduce half a dozen new clubs. The money and players will just suddenly appear. Simple!

Yes they will with a little planning and committed development over the next decade.

Just think how many extra Kumul and Fijian NRL standard players there’d be if the hunters and Fijian team had been introduced 10-15 years ago.

 

[Bojackhorseman]

Yes they will with a little planning and committed development over the next decade.

Just think how many extra Kumul and Fijian NRL standard players there’d be if the hunters and Fijian team had been introduced 10-15 years ago.

Well that settles that. I’ll leave you to the world of simple solutions to complex matters.

 

[Walter sobchak]

Well that settles that. I’ll leave you to the world of simple solutions to complex matters.

Throw in players from super league, Queensland cup and the Canterbury cup and you’re good to go.

Obviously the standard of RL will take a hit in the short term but long term the NRL will be bigger than ever.

 

[Perth Red]

I wonder if any nrl clubs have scouts at the RUWC? Must be some talent out of all them players.
Spend $10million a year in png and you’d be producing 30 nrl players at any one time within 5 years.

 

[Walter sobchak]

I wonder if any nrl clubs have scouts at the RUWC? Must be some talent out of all them players.
Spend $10million a year in png and you’d be producing 30 nrl players at any one time within 5 years.

Not sure about 30 NRL standard players from PNG within 5 years but the number would significantly rise. Ditto Fiji.

I think the key is youth development in PNG. If you could identify promising kumul talent at ages 14-18 and develop them in Australia we could see some great results.

 

[Stallion]

Sure the NRL could support 4 more teams over the next decade or so, but you are totally off your f**king head if you think the NRL could support 7 expansion clubs in ten years.

You'd totally tank the standards of the competition (and probably the ESL as well) as the growth in the talent pool through traditional means (i.e. developing juniors) definitely wouldn't be able to keep up with the pressure of adding 210 full time professional players over ten years.

If anything went wrong with any of the clubs the NRL wouldn't have the means to prop more than a few up at any one time, which would make it an incredibly risky proposition because if they started to fall over (and it's inevitable that some would struggle financially) then there'd be nobody to catch them as they fall, and you'd risk a repeat of the domino effect we were starting to see in the 90s when the NSWRL grew too big too fast without rationalising the competition first.

On top of all that, at the same time you'd be pushing this massive expansion drive the value of broadcasting rights are almost certainly going to start to drop, which will add an extra layer of risk because of the uncertainty of whether smaller sports leagues, such as the NRL, are going be able to attract similar value contracts through other means, namely streaming.

And because of the geographical spread of the clubs there's no way to do a balanced, and more importantly fair, conference system. You'd inevitably create a system that vastly favours one conference over the others (probably the one with the most Sydney clubs in it), so unless you are willing to accept that sacrifice, which I'm most certainly not, the whole idea is a total non-starter.

Basically, unless you rationalise Sydney in the process of this huge expansion push it's simply feasible to expand by that many clubs that quickly, and the chances of Sydney being rationalised arr slim to none!

? The AFL seem to be improving/expanding quite nicely without predicating established club fanbases . And that's a crap sport compared to the rugby league!

 

[Stallion]

All true but until things change RL must fight fire with fire by poaching union schoolboy talent and by introducing NRL franchises in both wellington and Christchurch.

Yes. It's probably not concentrating and prioritizing such an issue that maintains rugby league's precarious existence. As we often see : when some progress is made a 'calamity or something out of left field' takes the code back again. It's happened too often to not be by chance.

 

[Stallion]

Sure the NRL could support 4 more teams over the next decade or so, but you are totally off your f**king head if you think the NRL could support 7 expansion clubs in ten years.

You'd totally tank the standards of the competition (and probably the ESL as well) as the growth in the talent pool through traditional means (i.e. developing juniors) definitely wouldn't be able to keep up with the pressure of adding 210 full time professional players over ten years.

If anything went wrong with any of the clubs the NRL wouldn't have the means to prop more than a few up at any one time, which would make it an incredibly risky proposition because if they started to fall over (and it's inevitable that some would struggle financially) then there'd be nobody to catch them as they fall, and you'd risk a repeat of the domino effect we were starting to see in the 90s when the NSWRL grew too big too fast without rationalising the competition first.

On top of all that, at the same time you'd be pushing this massive expansion drive the value of broadcasting rights are almost certainly going to start to drop, which will add an extra layer of risk because of the uncertainty of whether smaller sports leagues, such as the NRL, are going be able to attract similar value contracts through other means, namely streaming.

And because of the geographical spread of the clubs there's no way to do a balanced, and more importantly fair, conference system. You'd inevitably create a system that vastly favours one conference over the others (probably the one with the most Sydney clubs in it), so unless you are willing to accept that sacrifice, which I'm most certainly not, the whole idea is a total non-starter.

Basically, unless you rationalise Sydney in the process of this huge expansion push it's simply feasible to expand by that many clubs that quickly, and the chances of Sydney being rationalised arr slim to none!

Think the four additional clubs is a consensus option. These clubs from my standpoint should be aimed toward consolidation and expansion. Suggesting the Central Coast Bears is both a consolidation and expansion club.The Brisbane 2 club a much needed consolidation club. West Coast Pirates an expansion club and either NZ 2 (south island?) or Adelaide Dingoes as another expansion club. This does increase the games footprint and minimises the damage that has been done to Australia's highest populated area : Sydney and surrounds. The consolidation in Brisbane is long overdue but we know whom has been stopping that 'must do'!

 

[MrE_Assassin]

Suggest you watch a great game of footy and save your trash thinking for quiet times! That stuff is nonsensical . But you have a right to put it out there! Sydney needs its clubs and even moreso . And so does the code of rugby league!

Guess what? The urban sprawl of Sydney is moving further and further out so it actually makes sense that the clubs themselves disperse outwards to create that breathing space and ensure the survival OF ALL CLUBS.

The clubs in the best position to do this are Manly (No competition in the north means they are prime to absorb all that area up to the Central Coast and the massive NS population you speak of), Wests Tigers (Establish more permanently in Campbelltown with a few games in Bankwest/New ANZ) and St George-Illawarra (Head further south to the gong and focus more out of there). The Roosters could take on the Northern side of the bridge as well as the east and still remain the "Sydney" Roosters and Souths, without having the both the Dragons AND Sharks absorbing everything south of Botany Bay can have breathing space too. It is what is needed to survive in the Sydney market. Just because they push outwards does not mean they are not a Sydney/NSW team. The Metro area of Sydney is growing and more CBDs being established... which means more dollars outside of the City of Sydney.

If there is one thing Peter Beattie got right it was "Expand or Die"... Maybe this needs to be each individual club's outlook too.

 

[MrE_Assassin]

And that organisation has worked out that additional clubs and not imploding established clubs is the prudent way to grow. It's non sensicle the tear down foundations logic for expansion.

You do realise that the Sydney Swans and Brisbane Lions were Victorian clubs that were pushed out of Victoria to expand the national footprint and help those clubs survive because of an overcrowded Melbourne market, right? The Western Bulldogs were also a relocated side, formerly the Footscray Football Club. How did they do it? Relocation and mergers..... (Say it isn't so....)

The Sth Melbourne side, now known as the Swans still pay homage to their roots but are permanently relocated to Sydney... The Fitzroy Lions merged with the Brisbane Bears (hahaha Bears, seems like theres no place in either top flight code for them) to form the Brisbane Lions to ensure the survival of the Lions history and still maintain a footprint in QLD so they could encrouch on RL territory.

The most recent expansions for the AFL (GWS and GC) have been costing the AFL a shitload to keep operating... and why? So they can have clubs in RL territory... but the AFL knows that just popping up new clubs in random areas is unsustainable. Not long ago they were toying with the idea of moving Nth Melbourne Kangaroos to Tasmania.

So to say that the AFL is an organisation that adds additional clubs without imploding existing clubs shows that you don't know your sports history or do any research. They moved their foundations to areas to ensure their survival and that their history isn't lost forever, but just has a new chapter added to it.

 

[Perth Red]

You do realise that the Sydney Swans and Brisbane Lions were Victorian clubs that were pushed out of Victoria to expand the national footprint and help those clubs survive because of an overcrowded Melbourne market, right? The Western Bulldogs were also a relocated side, formerly the Footscray Football Club. How did they do it? Relocation and mergers..... (Say it isn't so....)

The Sth Melbourne side, now known as the Swans still pay homage to their roots but are permanently relocated to Sydney... The Fitzroy Lions merged with the Brisbane Bears (hahaha Bears, seems like theres no place in either top flight code for them) to form the Brisbane Lions to ensure the survival of the Lions history and still maintain a footprint in QLD so they could encrouch on RL territory.

The most recent expansions for the AFL (GWS and GC) have been costing the AFL a shitload to keep operating... and why? So they can have clubs in RL territory... but the AFL knows that just popping up new clubs in random areas is unsustainable. Not long ago they were toying with the idea of moving Nth Melbourne Kangaroos to Tasmania.

So to say that the AFL is an organisation that adds additional clubs without imploding existing clubs shows that you don't know your sports history or do any research. They moved their foundations to areas to ensure their survival and that their history isn't lost forever, but just has a new chapter added to it.

They also tried desperately to get a club to relocate to GC rather than set up a new one and have said all along that Tassie would only ever get a relocated club. At the moment they have the money to bail out failing Melbourne clubs AND invest in expansion but if push came to shove it wouldnt be the expansion clubs that were cut if they run out of money. They know they have too many mouths in Melbourne just as we know we have too many in Sydney, and thats with the massive fanbases their clubs have.

 

[The Great Dane]

I wonder if any nrl clubs have scouts at the RUWC? Must be some talent out of all them players.
Spend $10million a year in png and you’d be producing 30 nrl players at any one time within 5 years.

Money isn't really the problem in the PI's, it's getting visas for kids to come across and play in Australia at a young age so they can develop their skills in a competitive environment and have access to the best mentors and coaches in the world that is, and always has been, the problem.

Besides that, unless the NRL is either going to buy controlling shares in local RL's in the PI's or is planning to set up development outposts in all the nations in the pacific, throwing $10mil a year at them is a really bad idea.

But either way you are totally off your head if you think that PNG will be able to produce 30 NRL players a year in five years no matter what you do, it's just not that simple.

 

[The Great Dane]

2 Sydney teams could relocate to both the central coast and Illawarra. The obvious choices would be the sea eagles to central coast and the dragons to Illawarra permanently.

No matter how sensible it may be there won't be any rationalisation of Sydney clubs, the Old Boys Club simply won't allow it.

So yeah, for your plan to go ahead you'd need to expand the NRL by seven clubs in under ten years, find 210 NRL standard full time professionals to man them, and somehow underwrite this expansion in a time when the value of broadcast contracts is almost certainly going to start to go down. It's fanciful bull shit.

As for the 2 conference format you simply introduce crossover fixtures.

Crossover fixtures won't fix the problem of one conference having massive amounts of travel compared to the other and all the problems that creates, and until you can fix that problem conferences are a complete nonstarter.

 

[Perth Red]

No matter how sensible it may be there won't be any rationalisation of Sydney clubs, the Old Boys Club simply won't allow it.

So yeah, for your plan to go ahead you'd need to expand the NRL by seven clubs in under ten years, find 210 NRL standard full time professionals to man them, and somehow underwrite this expansion in a time when the value of broadcast contracts is almost certainly going to start to go down. It's fanciful bull shit.



Crossover fixtures won't fix the problem of one conference having massive amounts of travel compared to the other and all the problems that creates, and until you can fix that problem conferences are a complete nonstarter.

Easily fixed by mixing the conferences

Arthur Summons Conference

Panthers
Eels
Bulldogs
Wests
Knights
Broncos
Titans
Cowboys
Brisbane2

Norm Provan conference

Dragons
Rabbits
Sharks
Roosters
Sea-Eagles
Raiders
Warriors
Storm
Pirates

Next expansion NZ2 in NP conference and Adelaide in AS conference

 

[The Great Dane]

Easily fixed by mixing the conferences

Arthur Summons Conference

Panthers
Eels
Bulldogs
Wests
Knights
Broncos
Titans
Cowboys
Brisbane2

Norm Provan conference

Dragons
Rabbits
Sharks
Roosters
Sea-Eagles
Raiders
Warriors
Storm
Pirates

Next expansion NZ2 in NP conference and Adelaide in AS conference

I don't see a fix, I see a massive f**king shit fight as the Sydney clubs complain about the 'derbies' they are going to lose, the Queensland clubs being very angry that three of their biggest draws, the Storm, Dragons, and Rabbits are in the opposite conference while they are stuck with the Titans, and the NP conference pointing out that they are expected to accept the two away games that are the furthest away (NZ and Perth) while the AS conference only has to travel to NQ and traveling to NQ isn't that big a deal for half of that conference anyway.

Then if/when you expand you've got a more problems because the Adelaide club is going to want to be in the conference with Perth and Melbourne and another trip to NZ for the NP conference while the AS conference still only has to travel to NQ.

No matter what format you put forward massive holes can and will be poked in it, and that is always going to be the case until there's a more even geographical spread of clubs.