NRL Expansion. Ideas and opinions.

[greenBV4]

Easily fixed by mixing the conferences

Arthur Summons Conference

Panthers
Eels
Bulldogs
Wests
Knights
Broncos
Titans
Cowboys
Brisbane2

Norm Provan conference

Dragons
Rabbits
Sharks
Roosters
Sea-Eagles
Raiders
Warriors
Storm
Pirates

Next expansion NZ2 in NP conference and Adelaide in AS conference

What about a Super League and National League conference? helps decided what team to put where, and every year can be a "war"

NATIONAL LEAGUE
North Sydney Eagles (NSO and/or SFS)
Newcastle Knights (Newcastle)
Parramatta Eels (WSS)
East Coast Roosters (SFS +some games CC)
South Sydney Rabbitohs (SFS or ANZ)
Western Sydney Tigers (WSS)
Gold Coast Titans (Robina)
St George Illawarra Dragons (Wollongong)

Brisbane Crushers (Suncorp)
Southern Kias (Wellington/Christchurch split)
Melbourne Bears (AAMI)


SUPER LEAGUE
Canberra Raiders (Canberra)
Auckland Warriors (Auckland)
Brisbane Broncos (Suncorp)
Northern Cowboys (Townsville +some games Darwin)
Cronulla Sharks (SFS or Shark Park)
Penrith Panthers (WSS or Penrith)
Canterbury (WSS or ANZ)
Melbourne Storm (AAMI)

West Coast Pirates (Perth)
Adelaide Rams (Adelaide)
Pacific Mariners (Fiji+PNG)

Play each other in conference twice with a few inter-conference derby/grudge match rounds

 

[Perth Red]

I don't see a fix, I see a massive f**king shit fight as the Sydney clubs complain about the 'derbies' they are going to lose, the Queensland clubs being very angry that three of their biggest draws, the Storm, Dragons, and Rabbits are in the opposite conference while they are stuck with the Titans, and the NP conference pointing out that they are expected to accept the two away games that are the furthest away (NZ and Perth) while the AS conference only has to travel to NQ and traveling to NQ isn't that big a deal for half of that conference anyway.

Then if/when you expand you've got a more problems because the Adelaide club is going to want to be in the conference with Perth and Melbourne and another trip to NZ for the NP conference while the AS conference still only has to travel to NQ.

No matter what format you put forward massive holes can and will be poked in it, and that is always going to be the case until there's a more even geographical spread of clubs.

Not all teams play each other home and away as it is. This way you play your main rivals in your own conference home and away to build up those conference rivalries, and then each of then a rotation of the other conference teams. No one will ever be happy all the time, all the people wont be happy some of the time lol. If and when we get to 18 and especially twenty teams there will be massive problems in our current structure anyway, there already is with some of the games biggest match ups not taking place twice a year, at least this way creates some structure and rivalry and big games guaranteed for the decades ahead. You can tweak the conference line ups if some bigger opportunities exist but the split between NSW and non NSW across both conferences needs to remain. Those suggesting a NSW and non NSW conference are fruit loops.

 

[Stallion]

You do realise that the Sydney Swans and Brisbane Lions were Victorian clubs that were pushed out of Victoria to expand the national footprint and help those clubs survive because of an overcrowded Melbourne market, right? The Western Bulldogs were also a relocated side, formerly the Footscray Football Club. How did they do it? Relocation and mergers..... (Say it isn't so....)

The Sth Melbourne side, now known as the Swans still pay homage to their roots but are permanently relocated to Sydney... The Fitzroy Lions merged with the Brisbane Bears (hahaha Bears, seems like theres no place in either top flight code for them) to form the Brisbane Lions to ensure the survival of the Lions history and still maintain a footprint in QLD so they could encrouch on RL territory.

The most recent expansions for the AFL (GWS and GC) have been costing the AFL a shitload to keep operating... and why? So they can have clubs in RL territory... but the AFL knows that just popping up new clubs in random areas is unsustainable. Not long ago they were toying with the idea of moving Nth Melbourne Kangaroos to Tasmania.

So to say that the AFL is an organisation that adds additional clubs without imploding existing clubs shows that you don't know your sports history or do any research. They moved their foundations to areas to ensure their survival and that their history isn't lost forever, but just has a new chapter added to it.

Not reading properly are you? That organisation " have worked out." That's past tense. It's referring to a scenario that such moves had been made and they are now aware of its negatives. The AFL will continue to have the 9 clubs in Melbourne and outskirts. They have realized the value of well established and familiar clubs. It's catering for established supporter bases. No more whiteanting of their established supporter bases. I do know my sport . So you can.leave your poorly targeted comments to yourself.

 

[Bojackhorseman]

Not reading properly are you. That organisation have "worked out." That's past tense. It's referring to a scenario that such moves had been made and they are now aware of its negatives. The AFL will continue to have the 9 clubs in Melbourne and outskirts. They have realized the value of well established and familiar clubs. It's catering for established supporter bases. I do know my sport . So you can.leaver your poorly targeted comments to yourself.

This is wrong on every level and demonstrates this blokes total lack of knowledge about afl strategy. It’s utter drivel.

 

[MrE_Assassin]

And that organisation has worked out that additional clubs and not imploding established clubs is the prudent way to grow. It's non sensicle the tear down foundations logic for expansion. Yet some still push that agenda?

You’re an absolute muppet aren’t you! Do even read your own rubbish before you subject us all to it?

Has! You said has! Which isn’t the point anyway because both meanings are present tense. Some teacher you are.... Regardless, the present day AFL is still built on relocates and merged clubs which have been to more benefit than detriment. It’s the appointment of brand new clubs that is actually causing the AFL monetary headaches at the moment as they try to keep them afloat.

You also neglected the point that the AFL is still looking at moving clubs, as referenced by the look into the viability of moving Nth Melbourne to Tasmania... in fact Nth Melbourne is always the first on the list for clubs to relocate whenever it’s talked about. If there’s anything the AFL has done well it is move teams out to new frontiers without losing the history, and expanding their footprint well beyond the Victorian heartland.

So once again you’re spouting random drivel without any context, fact checking or even logical thought process. Your arguments lack backing or justification and is just emotive codswallop because you can’t accept anybody else’s proposals or ideas. It’s people like you who are stifling the growth of Rugby League, because you can’t let go of a bygone era.

 

[The Great Dane]

You also neglected the point that the AFL is still looking at moving clubs, as referenced by the look into the viability of moving Nth Melbourne to Tasmania... in fact Nth Melbourne is always the first on the list for clubs to relocate whenever it’s talked about. If there’s anything the AFL has done well it is move teams out to new frontiers without losing the history, and expanding their footprint well beyond the Victorian heartland.

Yep, in the last two decades or so they've tried to relocate North Melbourne to Canberra, the Gold Coast, and the aforementioned Tasmania.

They also attempted to get the Melbourne Demons and (IIRC) St Kilda to relocate as well, and I'd bet you anything that behind the scenes they've tried to push through other relocation ideas as well.

So surprise surprise, Stallion doesn't have a f**king clue what he is talking about.

 

[Stallion]

You’re an absolute muppet aren’t you! Do even read your own rubbish before you subject us all to it?

Has! You said has! Which isn’t the point anyway because both meanings are present tense. Some teacher you are.... Regardless, the present day AFL is still built on relocates and merged clubs which have been to more benefit than detriment. It’s the appointment of brand new clubs that is actually causing the AFL monetary headaches at the moment as they try to keep them afloat.

You also neglected the point that the AFL is still looking at moving clubs, as referenced by the look into the viability of moving Nth Melbourne to Tasmania... in fact Nth Melbourne is always the first on the list for clubs to relocate whenever it’s talked about. If there’s anything the AFL has done well it is move teams out to new frontiers without losing the history, and expanding their footprint well beyond the Victorian heartland.

So once again you’re spouting random drivel without any context, fact checking or even logical thought process. Your arguments lack backing or justification and is just emotive codswallop because you can’t accept anybody else’s proposals or ideas. It’s people like you who are stifling the growth of Rugby League, because you can’t let go of a bygone era.View attachment 33238

Lol. If you don't think 'Has' or "had' is past tense then you need to go back to school. Yes I quoted the wrong letter but your condescending theme reflects an ignorance that is yours not mine! The AFL will sneakily throw off that they have the intention to rid a club however that's a well orchestrated smokescreen to have dodos like yourself advocate the continued weakening of rugby league in Sydney! But you won't or can't work that out.

 

[MrE_Assassin]

Lol. If you don't think 'Has' or "had' is past tense then you need to go back to school. Yes I quoted the wrong letter but your condescending theme reflects an ignorance that is yours not mine! The AFL will sneakily throw off that they have the intention to rid a club however that's a well orchestrated smokescreen to have dodos like yourself advocate the continued weakening of rugby league in Sydney! But you won't or can't work that out.

Easy to back-peddle when you're going down hill, champ.

Once again all you do is spout off condescending taunts when you have nothing of real substance to offer or if someone disagrees with your point of view. You also have no understanding of the discussion we were originally having because your emotive bial clogs your memory.

I am not advocating a weakening of Sydney, in fact I advocate a consolidation without the addition of extra clubs in NSW. I merely pointed out that your argument about the AFL was incorrect on multiple levels regarding mergers, relocations, etc. Also, the AFL isn't talking of ridding a club, simply relocating it to an area of strategic value to them. They will still have the same number of clubs and the club still maintains its history... just slightly less clubs in the overpopulated, overrepresented Victorian landscape.

I believe Sydney/NSW can maintain the number of teams it has with minor tweaks to the areas that some clubs represent within Sydney Metro/Greater Sydney and NSW. This then consolidates the lost or under represented areas of NSW without adding new clubs, the existing clubs are still in Sydney and can maintain current support while trying to garner new support from the expanded areas they represent, and then new licences can be issued out to new teams in areas that have no/minimal representation a la Perth, Bris, Adelaide, etc.... but to quote a not-so-great man "But you won't or can't work that out."

 

[Wily Ole Dog]

Easy to back-peddle when you're going down hill, champ.

Once again all you do is spout of condescending taunts when you have nothing of real substance to offer or if someone disagrees with your point of view. You also have no understanding of the discussion we were originally having because your emotive bial clogs your memory.

I am not advocating a weakening of Sydney, in fact I advocate a consolidation without the addition of extra clubs in NSW. I merely pointed out that your argument about the AFL was incorrent on multiple levels regarding mergers, relocations, etc. Also, the AFL isn't talking of ridding a club, simply relocating it to an area of strategic value to them. They will still have the same number of clubs an dthe club still maintains its history... just slightly less clubs in the overpopulated, overrepresented Victorian landscape.

I believe Sydney/NSW can maintain the number of teams it has with minor tweaks to the areas that some clubs represent within Sydney Metro/Greater Sydney and NSW. This then consolidates the lost or under represented areas of NSW without adding new clubs, the existing clubs are still in Sydney and can maintain current support while trying to garner new support from the expanded areas they represent, and then new licences can be issued out to new teams in areas that have no/minimal representation a la Perth, Bris, Adelaide, etc.... but to quote a not-so-great man "But you won't or can't work that out."

I’ve got no doubts that we can got to 18 teams and a conference system with some forward thing tweaks

 

[MrE_Assassin]

I’ve got no doubts that we can got to 18 teams and a conference system with some forward thing tweaks

Can’t say I’m on board with the conference thing as I don’t believe we’re a big enough country or sport to support it unlike the NFL or NBA, but 18 is definitely achievable in the near future.

I firmly believe that the NRL would cap out at 20 teams, so inevitably some teams will have to make way if they want to go to new areas once that number is hit.... but that’s just my perception of how it would all
Work.

 

[MrE_Assassin]

In the theme of all things Melbourne Cup and in light of Peter V'Landys' saying expansion will involve a new franchise IF they expand.... I want to know what is everyone's odds for expansion bids. My odds are:

Brisbane Bombers/New Identity/Franchise - 3:1
Perth - 5:1
Central Coast - 101:1
West Brisbane/Ipswich Jets - 30:1
Redcliffe Dolphins - 30:1
Adelaide - 101:1
NZ II - 25:1
PNG - 101:1
Central Qld - 101:1

 

[flippikat]

In the theme of all things Melbourne Cup and in light of Peter V'Landys' saying expansion will involve a new franchise IF they expand.... I want to know what is everyone's odds for expansion bids. My odds are:

Brisbane Bombers/New Identity/Franchise - 3:1
Perth - 5:1
Central Coast - 101:1
West Brisbane/Ipswich Jets - 30:1
Redcliffe Dolphins - 30:1
Adelaide - 101:1
NZ II - 25:1
PNG - 101:1
Central Qld - 101:1

Yep. I think the NRL will go for a non-geographical Brisbane 2 - and the chatter about a 2nd Brisbane team puts it as favourite.. and the Perth option just after it makes sense, given how organised, funded, well supported & ready to go they are.

I'm surprised NZ 2 is at shorter odds than West Brisbane & Redcliffe.. but if the NRL is keener on a 'whole of Brisbane' 2nd club than suburban-isation, then I can see where you're coming from. I don't think there's any active bid from NZ, but the Orcas could re-emerge if the NRL 'footprint report' makes all the right noises.

So no changes to those odds.

As far as all the 101'ers go, I would rank them : Adelaide, Central Coast, Central Qld, PNG.

101:1 Adelaide. Population, plus a truly national footprint, plus existing stadia. Sure there's no bid brand, but that's easily fixed.

151:1 Central Coast. A "safe", conservative choice to appease NSW fans, but it would frustrate interstate/international fans, and may not gain as much in TV money as other options above it. It has brand and stadium going for it, but it's low on the priority list imo.

201:1 Central Qld. Maybe in the future.... if population explodes, a stadium is built & we have Brisbane 2, Perth, Adelaide & NZ2 already, then *maybe*. But not till then, at the earliest. I'll say it now, the NRL will NOT expand to places outside big cities for a long while, if ever.

1001:1 PNG. Lack of infrastructure, lack of money, lack of willingness for players to move there.. it's not happening in this expansion phase or the next, and Qld/NSW Cup are the logical level for PI/PNG teams until major upgrades across many facets happen.

 

[Perth Red]

Reality is the game would benefit massively in the future if it had 4 new clubs
Brisbane2
Perth
Adelaide
Nz2

ideally we would stay at 16 clubs for a variety of reasons but that would mean relocation or sacrificing 4 existing clubs.as it is I doubt we will see any changes in next 8 years.

 

[flippikat]

Reality is the game would benefit massively in the future if it had 4 new clubs
Brisbane2
Perth
Adelaide
Nz2

ideally we would stay at 16 clubs for a variety of reasons but that would mean relocation or sacrificing 4 existing clubs.as it is I doubt we will see any changes in next 8 years.

I'd love to see a plan that delivers those 4 expansion locations.

A 20-team, 19 round competition with a break for Origin & inter-league play in the 2nd tier (have the same number of teams in NSW & Qld cup - and NSW Cup teams play Qld cup teams for competition points) would be great.

 

[Perth Red]

With a new ARLC chairman on the job and a new decade coming up, it’s the perfect time to get the crystal ball out and work out where the NRL will be at the end of the next decade.

Where fans want the NRL and what the powerbrokers feel like doing can often be poles apart. Will those visions finally align over the next decade?

We were joined by Roar rugby league expert AJ Mithen on the Game of Codes podcast to work out the path forward for rugby league in Australia and make a call on what needs to happen for the sport to truly grow.

Expansion has been a hot-button issue for NRL fans over the last few years. Is there room for two more teams to join the NRL, or is relocation of existing Sydney teams the answer?

Is it time for the NRL to abandon the big stadium experiment and start properly investing in better suburban grounds? How does player movement need to change going forward?

Listen to the discussion in the player above.


https://www.theroar.com.au/2019/12/10/where-will-the-nrl-be-in-ten-years/

 

[titoelcolombiano]

In order of favouritism in my opinion:

Brisbane 2 (in whatever form that takes)
Perth
Central Coast (by relocation of a current Sydney NRL club, not by an addition of a new or past NRL club)
NZ2
Adelaide

then a long way back in the field and / or frankly unlikely....
NZ3
Melbourne 2
PNG
Any new QLD team outside of greater Brisbane

 

[flippikat]

In order of favouritism in my opinion:

Brisbane 2 (in whatever form that takes)
Perth
Central Coast (by relocation of a current Sydney NRL club, not by an addition of a new or past NRL club)
NZ2
Adelaide

then a long way back in the field and / or frankly unlikely....
NZ3
Melbourne 2
PNG
Any new QLD team outside of greater Brisbane

You forgot Perth 2 in the 2nd batch of clubs.

Why? Well, with two Perth teams you can get a late game EVERY weekend instead of every 2nd weekend.

That's a huge selling point for the networks.

 

[jim_57]

1 club relocate or half relocate to Gosford.
Add Perth, Bris 2, NZ 2 & Adelaide.

Pretty much set for a long long time. Anything else would be pretty obscure like Melbourne 2, Brisbane 3 or an Asian version of Toronto Wolfpack (or West Coast USA/Canada at an absolute stretch).

 

[siv]

1 club relocate or half relocate to Gosford.
Add Perth, Bris 2, NZ 2 & Adelaide.

Pretty much set for a long long time. Anything else would be pretty obscure like Melbourne 2, Brisbane 3 or an Asian version of Toronto Wolfpack (or West Coast USA/Canada at an absolute stretch).

Slight variation

Perth Sharks
Adelaide Roosters
CC Bears
Redcliffe
Ipswich
Orcas

 

[titoelcolombiano]

You forgot Perth 2 in the 2nd batch of clubs.

Why? Well, with two Perth teams you can get a late game EVERY weekend instead of every 2nd weekend.

That's a huge selling point for the networks.

It's a good point. Once we have established a good spread of teams across the major Australian capital cities, a second NZ side and then teir two teams that provide a pathway for Fiji & PNG, the next phase of expansion (30 - 40 years from now) would be to start laying the groundwork for Melbourne, Perth and Adelaide 2 to fully establish the game on the local scene and provide local derbies that draw more interest and hopefully an instant, highly attended event game to each of those cities each year.