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NRL Rd 19 2022 - General Non-Warriors Thread

Beavers Headgear

First Grade
Messages
7,783
I’m not into the religious stuff at all so no idea what the bible or whatever they follow actually says, and I loathe using social media comments as gospel, but I saw a reasonably good explanation on there yesterday about the difference between what the bible says about this issue compared to gambling and alcohol etc and it made sense, but I won’t try and repeat it because I’ll make a meal of it lol

hopefully clubs can get back to wearing 2 bloody jerseys a season after this without some bullshit jersey every couple of rounds
 
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14,472
Hardest part about social media and even these forums is the written word can often be read wrong, out of context or in the mood of the person reading it.
 

Beavers Headgear

First Grade
Messages
7,783
Onto other matters from the weekend, 5 weeks for Waddell and 3 for Finucane

can’t agree with either, Finucanes was a head clash, total accident, could argue careless, but that wasn’t the charge. Waddell looked nothing like an eye gouge to me even though his mit got in the wrong area
 

jaseg

Juniors
Messages
2,274
I find it rather ironic with the whole episode that the people blowing up about inclusiveness etc, are quite happy to vilify and want to exclude a group from the game based on their cultural or religious beliefs

Nah, f**k religious or cultural defense for people's worst impulses. If your religion says certain people are lesser, f**k your religion. That shit shouldn't have a place in society at all. I'm tired of pandering to f**kwits, and won't respect arseholes doing the wrong thing by someone else just because they're justifying it with a disjointed ~2000 year collection of stories collated into book they often haven't read.

As for the trans sports thing... it's a f**ker of a question. I'm ok with them competing so long as:
a) it's not at a high level (for olympic medals/that sort of prestige, or money - take away the incentive for some sort of potential fraud... hard for genuine trans people, but seems unfortunately necessary)
b) it's not a contact sport (for obvious physical/developmental/hormonal safety reasons - even then there could be a question about early use of blockers... but I don't know enough about it so just leave it at a general 'no')

I mean... if a trans woman wants to play some park cricket with cis women, why the f**k not? But to have someone competing in the NRLW is a totally different thing. Anyway I don't think there are actually many people advocating for trans women to be allowed to compete as professionals, or in contact sports... I suspect it's just a dogwhistle issue for the nutjobs in politics to play to, and the media will repeat it relentlessly because it gets outrage clicks. Hell, see the dumbf**k coalition thing in Warringah from the last Australian federal election. Exactly that - just used it as a gamble on a distraction from the shit job they had done in almost every respect... done in an electorate whose incumbent independent votes with them most of the time anyway.
 

Beavers Headgear

First Grade
Messages
7,783
Nah, f**k religious or cultural defense for people's worst impulses. If your religion says certain people are lesser, f**k your religion. That shit shouldn't have a place in society at all. I'm tired of pandering to f**kwits, and won't respect arseholes doing the wrong thing by someone else just because they're justifying it with a disjointed ~2000 year collection of stories collated into book they often haven't read.

As for the trans sports thing... it's a f**ker of a question. I'm ok with them competing so long as:
a) it's not at a high level (for olympic medals/that sort of prestige, or money - take away the incentive for some sort of potential fraud... hard for genuine trans people, but seems unfortunately necessary)
b) it's not a contact sport (for obvious physical/developmental/hormonal safety reasons - even then there could be a question about early use of blockers... but I don't know enough about it so just leave it at a general 'no')

I mean... if a trans woman wants to play some park cricket with cis women, why the f**k not? But to have someone competing in the NRLW is a totally different thing. Anyway I don't think there are actually many people advocating for trans women to be allowed to compete as professionals, or in contact sports... I suspect it's just a dogwhistle issue for the nutjobs in politics to play to, and the media will repeat it relentlessly because it gets outrage clicks. Hell, see the dumbf**k coalition thing in Warringah from the last Australian federal election. Exactly that - just used it as a gamble on a distraction from the shit job they had done in almost every respect... done in an electorate whose incumbent independent votes with them most of the time anyway.
I understand the viewpoint, but aside from not wanting to wear a shirt promoting the choice, is there any evidence of these guys treating people poorly based on that choice ?

The trans sport thing may pop its head up again soon, a transgender darts player won a big tournament last week to represent NZ at the end of the year in the women’s tournament
 

jaseg

Juniors
Messages
2,274
I understand the viewpoint, but aside from not wanting to wear a shirt promoting the choice, is there any evidence of these guys treating people poorly based on that choice ?

The trans sport thing may pop its head up again soon, a transgender darts player won a big tournament last week to represent NZ at the end of the year in the women’s tournament

Aside from hanging their teammates out to dry in a high stakes game in order to not wear the same jersey as them that quite simply promotes equality and respect of a marginalized group?

Do you really need more evidence than that?

It's not luring people into being gay ffs..

RE the trans thing; god, I wish it wouldn't
 

Benek

Juniors
Messages
1,825
I understand the viewpoint, but aside from not wanting to wear a shirt promoting the choice, is there any evidence of these guys treating people poorly based on that choice ?
Based on how many gay people have already come out and said how much they've been hurt and offended by these player's actions, yes it seems they are treating people poorly whether by direct intent or not. Certainly not setting a good example for the more open-minded youth who look up to these footy players.

Did you hear the rumour that a current Manly player who's gay has decided to stay in the closet after witnessing this? Don't know if it's true, but that's the opposite effect of what this inclusive jersey is supposed to promote. Players on their own team are afraid to be themselves now. All because a few guys are scared of wearing a jersey with a different coloured stripe on it.

I get the point that we shouldn't vilify these players because of their religion just like they shouldn't vilify anyone over their sexual preferences or identity. But I feel the religious excuse can only go so far, and when it clashes with cultural norms, something has to change. (Hint, culture isn't going backwards - it's the religion that needs to change with the times). Discrimination just isn't tolerated in 2022, even if an old book tells you to hate gays.

Freedom of religion is fine until that religion promotes behaviour that people won't put up with anymore.
 

JJ

Immortal
Messages
30,433
Interesting though, surely big Israel should be welcomed back now, wasn't he just asserting his religious beliefs too?
 

Beavers Headgear

First Grade
Messages
7,783
Based on how many gay people have already come out and said how much they've been hurt and offended by these player's actions, yes it seems they are treating people poorly whether by direct intent or not. Certainly not setting a good example for the more open-minded youth who look up to these footy players.

Did you hear the rumour that a current Manly player who's gay has decided to stay in the closet after witnessing this? Don't know if it's true, but that's the opposite effect of what this inclusive jersey is supposed to promote. Players on their own team are afraid to be themselves now. All because a few guys are scared of wearing a jersey with a different coloured stripe on it.

I get the point that we shouldn't vilify these players because of their religion just like they shouldn't vilify anyone over their sexual preferences or identity. But I feel the religious excuse can only go so far, and when it clashes with cultural norms, something has to change. (Hint, culture isn't going backwards - it's the religion that needs to change with the times). Discrimination just isn't tolerated in 2022, even if an old book tells you to hate gays.

Freedom of religion is fine until that religion promotes behaviour that people won't put up with anymore.
Yeah I read that thing about the current player, absolutely disgraceful from the journalist imo to publish that and start all sorts of speculation, hasn’t done the kid any favours at all

I get the discrimination angle and all that, I just don’t think that choosing not to promote a certain cause is different to if they treated someone shit face to face

Aside from hanging their teammates out to dry in a high stakes game in order to not wear the same jersey as them that quite simply promotes equality and respect of a marginalized group?

Do you really need more evidence than that?

It's not luring people into being gay ffs..

RE the trans thing; god, I wish it wouldn't

to put it simply, I believe you can be tolerant and accepting of people face to face, without promoting the issue. Happy to label them homophobes etc if they are bagging people to their face etc but for me it isn’t at that level

I guess for me as well it’s easy to dump on these guys, but we all know how Polynesian culture operates in regards to respect for your elders etc and it’s an ingrained generational thing, are these young fellas the guys to stand up and break that cycle ?
Interesting though, surely big Israel should be welcomed back now, wasn't he just asserting his religious beliefs too?

I’d never have him banned while the likes of Lodge are suiting up

They happily promote women in league round every year while running out the likes of Lodge, Walker, Blake, Inglis, Bird etc etc which I’m sure has offended some women in the past
 
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TheDMC

Bench
Messages
3,203
It would be awesome if the roosters went the whole hog tonight and wore full rainbow coloured outfits with no other branding/identifiers on them.
 

Meth

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
32,607
Lot of white-people-words here. Not sure you understand what it's like to be PI.

If you don't like the culture, blame your colonising grandfathers.
 

Meth

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
32,607

Yeah, maybe a bit harsh and not totally directed solely as comments on here. I just think a lot of the commentary around this issue has been a bit ignorant and racist.

Manly messed up by not consulting the wider player group and just assuming that they would all be on board with the jerseys. They put their players in a terrible position, where they either have to go along with something that is problematic for them and their culture or be shunned in the name of tolerance.

'f**k your culture if it xyz' just sounds like something a culture-less white person says. It's not as simple as just throwing on a jersey for everyone.
 

Meth

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
32,607
In saying that, I don't personally have an issue with the message that Manly were trying to send. It's a good one. Gay people should be welcomed to play Rugby League.
 

Blair

First Grade
Messages
8,779
In saying that, I don't personally have an issue with the message that Manly were trying to send. It's a good one. Gay people should be welcomed to play Rugby League.
We've come a long way as a society. Forty years ago anyone seriously suggesting Manly do what they did last night definitely gets ostracised. It's highly likely he gets a bit of the biff as an add-on. You know, just in case the 'offender' didn't get why no one's talking to him in the first place.

I'd go thirty years ago for that too. Twenty? 2002? I dunno, things had changed with the majority, the metropolitan majority, by then.

Mt Isa, Bourke, Gore, Ashburton, Dargaville, et al, it may be 2012.
 
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Meth

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
32,607
We've come a long way as a society. Forty years ago anyone seriously suggesting Manly do what they did last night definitely gets ostracised. It's highly likely he gets a bit of the biff as an add-on. You know, just in case the 'offender' didn't get why no one's talking to him in the first place.

I'd go thirty years ago for that too. Twenty? 2002? I dunno, things had changed with the majority, the metropolitan majority, by then.

Mt Isa, Gore, Ashburton, Dargaville, et al, it may be 2012.

Yeah, amazing how people are willing to shame young Pacific Island boys for attitudes that they themselves held about 5 minutes ago...
 

jaseg

Juniors
Messages
2,274
Yeah, maybe a bit harsh and not totally directed solely as comments on here. I just think a lot of the commentary around this issue has been a bit ignorant and racist.

Manly messed up by not consulting the wider player group and just assuming that they would all be on board with the jerseys. They put their players in a terrible position, where they either have to go along with something that is problematic for them and their culture or be shunned in the name of tolerance.

'f**k your culture if it xyz' just sounds like something a culture-less white person says. It's not as simple as just throwing on a jersey for everyone.

Highlights offered without further comment.
 

Meth

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
32,607
Highlights offered without further comment.

it might seem offensive because I said ‘white people’ but the reality is that most white people (in nz and australia at least) are not encumbered by cultural expectations in the same way. So, they can say things like “f**k your culture if they xyz” because they don’t carry the same weight.
 

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