NRL2 Second Division

[xe_kilroy]

About finding a way for the P/R idea to work in terms of a structure.

Entails rationalizing the existing nsw and qld cup comps, so there are clubs serving new other regions, no duplicate clubs (no reserves).

Also means you don't have to keep expanding the NRL to 18 or 20, and trying to merge or relocate current clubs. You could even go back to 16 in the NRL. Instead, all those oft-cited future NRL expansion regions are now included in the NRL-2 comp. So they're already there and can grow over time, especially with ARL etc funding to support that structure long-term.

Obviously it needs money, backing, ideas for player transfers, etc. But thats how you could do it as a structure. Work with whats already in place (nsw/qld cups) as the expansion tunnel.

 

[Perth Red]

So where is the NRL clubs reserve grade side playing?

 

[Colk]

So where is the NRL clubs reserve grade side playing?

Based on a minor league model or the NSW/QLD Cup conference model, wherever the affiliate is based.

 

[Perth Red]

Based on a minor league model or the NSW/QLD Cup conference model, wherever the affiliate is based.

So we are expecting a team to potentially move its reserve grade interstate/international? Can you really see NSW clubs willing to do that?

 

[MugaB]

About finding a way for the P/R idea to work in terms of a structure.

Entails rationalizing the existing nsw and qld cup comps, so there are clubs serving new other regions, no duplicate clubs (no reserves).

Also means you don't have to keep expanding the NRL to 18 or 20, and trying to merge or relocate current clubs. You could even go back to 16 in the NRL. Instead, all those oft-cited future NRL expansion regions are now included in the NRL-2 comp. So they're already there and can grow over time, especially with ARL etc funding to support that structure long-term.

Obviously it needs money, backing, ideas for player transfers, etc. But thats how you could do it as a structure. Work with whats already in place (nsw/qld cups) as the expansion tunnel.

This idea would reverse the quantity of the player pool and only serve the areas far away from qld and nsw, not that it would make them more competitive as theyd get belted by the 1-2 teams that represented brisbane or sydney, if you shorten the amount of teams in those two cities the player pool or catchment areas shrinks, the players arent moving to Far away areas on the minimal salary they are on, this becomes no benefit for the NRL.

You need more clubs in all areas, not less to suit some 8 v 8 conference comp

 

[Colk]

So we are expecting a team to potentially move its reserve grade interstate/international? Can you really see NSW clubs willing to do that?

It is not that fanciful. Melbourne and the Warriors already do, players from Queensland NRL sides are spread across multiple sides, Newcastle, Canberra and Manly I believe previously had players based in the Queensland Cup (before being made to field reserve grade sides in NSW Cup)

If you want to compare the competitions, the Queensland Cup has been miles more successful mainly because the clubs below have their own identity.

Also, it is the only way your idea of a second division would have any chance of working. There would be no funding or interest for a national third grade.

 

[MugaB]

It is not that fanciful. Melbourne and the Warriors already do, players from Queensland NRL sides are spread across multiple sides, Newcastle, Canberra and Manly I believe previously had players based in the Queensland Cup (before being made to field reserve grade sides in NSW Cup)

If you want to compare the competitions, the Queensland Cup has been miles more successful mainly because the clubs below have their own identity.

Also, it is the only way your idea of a second division would have any chance of working. There would be no funding or interest for a national third grade.

Their own identity is mainly due to most of the SEQ teams stemmed from the BRL, which was qlds version of the nswrl, where they have a long history, which is why the NRL is also so successful for that same reason

 

[Perth Red]

It is not that fanciful. Melbourne and the Warriors already do, players from Queensland NRL sides are spread across multiple sides, Newcastle, Canberra and Manly I believe previously had players based in the Queensland Cup (before being made to field reserve grade sides in NSW Cup)

If you want to compare the competitions, the Queensland Cup has been miles more successful mainly because the clubs below have their own identity.

Also, it is the only way your idea of a second division would have any chance of working. There would be no funding or interest for a national third grade.

those two are very different scenarios than existing NSW clubs. I fidn it hard to believe they would ever accept such a model, and tbh why would they? It would cost a lot more, they would have less control over the players development and it would be hard to convince players to move to other parts of country, or overseas, to play reserve grade.
There is no easy answer and tbh I cant see any change to the status quo which means little hope of using a second tier for geographical development of the game.

 

[Perth Red]

Maybe the reverse way is the only way ie the ARLC pumping a lot more into all state comps to lift them. NRLWA get around $750k a year funding. Up that $7mill a year and maybe we could get the NRLWA clubs up to semi professional level and increase the talent and interest in the State comp here, likewise in Vic and NZ.

 

[Colk]

Their own identity is mainly due to most of the SEQ teams stemmed from the BRL, which was qlds version of the nswrl, where they have a long history, which is why the NRL is also so successful for that same reason

I agree. Compared to the NSWRL where you just have reserve grade sides of the existing sides. Newtown and North Sydney at least bring a different set of supporters

The only way to feed the idea of generating support in other areas or even foster more indirect/direct investment into regional areas would be use the QLD Cup model

For the NSW Conference have the Magpies, Jets, Bears and Steelers. Maybe the Silktails. Then 5 other sides (maybe a Victorian side, a couple of NSW regions and whoever else)

 

[Colk]

those two are very different scenarios than existing NSW clubs. I fidn it hard to believe they would ever accept such a model, and tbh why would they? It would cost a lot more, they would have less control over the players development and it would be hard to convince players to move to other parts of country, or overseas, to play reserve grade.
There is no easy answer and tbh I cant see any change to the status quo which means little hope of using a second tier for geographical development of the game.

Depends on how you finance it I guess. I think the minor league model is the closest comparison to the idea that you are proposing. The only reason that works is because there is no ‘reserve grade’ in the same way that NSW Cup conceives it. They are essentially affiliated to Major League clubs much in the same way as the QRL does

Like the QRL, it works perfectly because the regions are represented and people remain there until they are actually signed by NRL clubs. If NSW followed that idea, they would have probably had more success.

 

[Perth Red]

Maybe NSW cup would look like this with each team acting as reserve grade for a NSW NRL club and a bit of rebranding.

Newtown Jets (Sharks)
NS Bears (Roosters)
CC Crusade (Newcastle)
Campbelltown Magpies (Wests Tigers)
MT Pritchard Mounties (Bulldogs)
Balmain Tigers (Wests Tigers)
Kogorah St's (Dragons)
Illawarra Steelers (St's)
Blacktown Hawks (Manly)
Wentworthville Magpies (Eels)
Penrith Emus (Penrith at playing Emu plains)

 

[siv]

The best structure for an NRL-2 imo is what I originally posted. It still has many logistical, financial, player signings flaws, but....

The QLD and NSW Cups are the NRL-2, a new umbrella name for them, but they retain their format. They are classed as "conferences". A North Conference (QLD Cup). A South Conference (NSW Cup).

QLD cup already has a great mix of regions -- PNG, CQ, SC. Rationalize the NSW Cup, get rid of duplicate existing NRL teams, add CC Bears, Perth Pirates, add a NZ team or two, add Campbelltown (if the Tigers won't relocate there fulltime), add a country team, add Adelaide maybe in the future.

The South Conference would have Perth, NZ, CC, regions often cited for possible expansion. The North Conference would have SC, CQ, Cairns and/or PNG, all also often cited as possible long in the future expansion areas. Both would also have 1-2 Brisbane and Sydney clubs.

Anyway, you have like 8 or 10 clubs in each conference with all the usual suspects for expansion in it.

They either play only within their own conference home and away, or a mix of games against both, but then the top four from each play knockouts, then winner of each conference plays off in the NRL-2 grand final. The winner of THAT game promotes to the NRL The wooden spoon of the NRL demotes to the NRL-2.

If say a NSW team promotes and a QLD team demotes, you'd have to have some kind of idea for that.

That NRL-2 grand final would also be an epic contest for TV broadcast (as well as the playoffs). The NRL-2 GF could be played as the curtain raiser to the NRL GF.

There'd have to be some kind of rules/system for player transfers when a team promotes. A way for those clubs to add pro players.

It's not perfect and easy, but the structure itself can work, as long as the ARL can control it, get added funding, sponsorship, devise systems to help prop up NRL-2 clubs and player transfers etc

Yes this

But only after NRL Reserve Grade is setup

Then everything works perfectly

 

[xe_kilroy]

You don't need a reserves comp, you don't need to affiliate NRL clubs to second tier clubs either.

You can treat all those second tier players as "free agents" who are free to be signed up by the NRL clubs whenever they need players due to injuries/suspensions.

Or you can have a waivers system each week, NRL teams ordered from worst to best, can elect a player to sign from the second tier comp whenever they need a body. When NRL teams no longer need them, they "waive" them, who return back to their original club in the second tier.

It works like this in the US with American football. There are many little pro and semi-pro leagues there, not just the NFL. Each club has scouting depts who look for talent year round.

So this could be something NRL clubs could adopt, a scouting dept.

 

[xe_kilroy]

To pull it all off you need money and systems and rules. The ARL as controlling body to help prop up the standard of the second tier, fund it, theyre like employers. So football players can train, play, and earn money while playing in the second tier comps. If they get called up week to week, the rich NRL clubs sign them to some agreed standard contract/pay structure, above that of the second tier wages.

 

[Colk]

You don't need a reserves comp, you don't need to affiliate NRL clubs to second tier clubs either.

You can treat all those second tier players as "free agents" who are free to be signed up by the NRL clubs whenever they need players due to injuries/suspensions.

Or you can have a waivers system each week, NRL teams ordered from worst to best, can elect a player to sign from the second tier comp whenever they need a body. When NRL teams no longer need them, they "waive" them, who return back to their original club in the second tier.

It works like this in the US with American football. There are many little pro and semi-pro leagues there, not just the NFL. Each club has scouting depts who look for talent year round.

So this could be something NRL clubs could adopt, a scouting dept.

I don’t follow American football but it is still how baseball works as well. They are affiliated yes but major league sides can pick out whoever they want from the minor leagues.

I think this model is perfect to be frank. Have a top 25 instead of a top 30. They would mean actually less players to be filled in a 20 team competition.

Players outside of the top 17 play in the second division amongst those contracted by second division clubs and can be loaned to clubs that have injuries or whatever like the waiver system. The only thing I would do is make it up to a certain date (June 30) that you can loan from clubs/players who are not affiliated with.

 

[xe_kilroy]

I don’t follow American football but it is still how baseball works as well. They are affiliated yes but major league sides can pick out whoever they want from the minor leagues.

I think this model is perfect to be frank. Have a top 25 instead of a top 30. They would mean actually less players to be filled in a 20 team competition.

Players outside of the top 17 play in the second division amongst those contracted by second division clubs and can be loaned to clubs that have injuries or whatever like the waiver system. The only thing I would do is make it up to a certain date (June 30) that you can loan from clubs/players who are not affiliated with.

Yep no need for NRL rosters to be 30. 26 (double the starting team) is a good balance. And allows 4 or 5 players x 17 teams to boost the quality of the NRL-2. When they need players, they can sign them up, pay them a certain higher wages for the time spent there, and release them back to NRL-2 when no longer needed. End of a football season, standout NRL-2 players can be recruited and signed to NRL clubs, but during a season they're on loan. And you can add that June 30 stipulation you mentioned and other ideas to help bolster the integrity of it all

 

[Dark Corner]

So where is the NRL clubs reserve grade side playing?

They can go back to the 2nd grade teams like how Phil Could wants to go back.

 

[Dark Corner]

I'm sure Ice Hockey in Canada and USA has a good few leagues who can not be promoted to the NHL but still have great support unlike NFL and NBA.

 

[titoelcolombiano]

Do the conferences have to be the same every year? The NRL could make an offseason event out of the draw. Clubs get drawn out of a bucket (i.e. world cup pools) and the fans, clubs and media find out who you are in a conference with that season live, before a draw is then made. Good offseason publicity.