NRL2 Second Division

[Canard]

How many clubs are FT? And again the comp hold no real interest as it is seriously comprised in its integrity by being a pseudo reserve grade comp. Stack you team with NRL reserve grade players and win the title, then next year no reserve graders and down the table you go. Its not legit. QRL is better than NSW cup but its still stacked when you've got NRL partnerships stacking the teams.

This comp would be semi-pro at best, as you yourself said the max salary would be $100k.

It beggars belief that you think that the presence of no NRL standard players would increase the interest in the sport.

 

[Canard]

Cant be arsed to look but pretty sure most of the main stream comps have a genuine second tier comp of some sort in the country. RL in England, AF and Baseball in USA, Basketball in Europe,

Its not a problem for a reserve grade comp, it is for a genuine comp you want to use to grow the game beyond just the 17 clubs in the NRL.

All these comps besides the NFL have lower tier competitions that act as a feeder system for the Comp above it.

Which for the life of me, I can't see why that's such a heinous crime.

 

[MugaB]

This comp would be semi-pro at best, as you yourself said the max salary would be $100k.

It beggars belief that you think that the presence of no NRL standard players would increase the interest in the sport.

Yes, without the likes of some marquee talent, it wont draw eyeballs, just as the current reserve grade comps are, but i do see value in including those regional country teams aswell as Perth, Adelaide, etc to the existing comps, as will strengthen those areas 5-10 years down the track...
Instead of an NRL2 comp though, maybe a return of the toyota cup U20s, with those teams added, i can see it working better, but its really just for breeding purposes for 1st grade, rather than a nrl2 style comp that has been floated, and make it so the current 17 teams are linked to each one, without fielding their own side,
example
*perth with rabbits,
*parra with darwin,
*adelaide with roosters,
*dogs with christchurch,
*dolphins with wide bay,
*sharks with fiji,
*cowboys with png,
*sea eagles with hamilton,
*penrith with dubbo,
*knights with tamworth,
*bronx with toowomba,
*raiders with southern tablelands,
* titans with northern rivers...etc

 

[Colk]

Are you Perth red's hype man or maybe even socket puppet?! Seem to defend everything he says including crazy stuff like his 2nd division..

Oh good a personal attack which again suggests you know that I am right i.e you’re a hypocrite.

I am actually disagreeing with him but seeing you don’t know how to read, analyse or understand anything with nuance, it’s understandable that you would be confused.

 

[Colk]

Yes, without the likes of some marquee talent, it wont draw eyeballs, just as the current reserve grade comps are, but i do see value in including those regional country teams aswell as Perth, Adelaide, etc to the existing comps, as will strengthen those areas 5-10 years down the track...
Instead of an NRL2 comp though, maybe a return of the toyota cup U20s, with those teams added, i can see it working better, but its really just for breeding purposes for 1st grade, rather than a nrl2 style comp that has been floated, and make it so the current 17 teams are linked to each one, without fielding their own side,
example
*perth with rabbits,
*parra with darwin,
*adelaide with roosters,
*dogs with christchurch,
*dolphins with wide bay,
*sharks with fiji,
*cowboys with png,
*sea eagles with hamilton,
*penrith with dubbo,
*knights with tamworth,
*bronx with toowomba,
*raiders with southern tablelands,
* titans with northern rivers...etc

That’s a good idea MugaB. That’s pretty much how a second division should work although I would give them different logos or identities but the idea is that those regions get a representative team. You can also feed that into their local comps etc

 

[TheGrifter]

Since NRL1 was born out of the NSWRL and caters to the history and traditions of the NSWRL clubs, NRL2 should be based on the BRL/Queensland Cup and its teams' history and traditions. That means Newtown Jets and Western Suburbs Magpies can enter, but only if they change their names. North Sydney can remain as the Bears as there's no need for Burleigh to be in this competition when the Titans are just a few KMs away. I don't see the need for Sydney Wests to be in it.

Adelaide Rams
Brisbane Firehawks
Cairns Cyclones
Central Coast RLFC
Central Queensland Capras
Fiji RLFC
Illawarra Steelers
Ipswich Jets
Logan Magpies
Mackay Cutters
New Caledonia XIII
Newtown RLFC
North Sydney Bears
PNG Hunters
Sunshine Coast Falcons
West Coast Pirates

I like this idea.

In reality you would have to start off with a smaller competition built on the existing sides plus one or two startups, probably Perth.

As the competition establishes itself then add in Adelaide, New Caledonia etc

 

[MugaB]

That’s a good idea MugaB. That’s pretty much how a second division should work although I would give them different logos or identities but the idea is that those regions get a representative team. You can also feed that into their local comps etc

Oh yes of course, it wouldnt be the Perth rabbitohs of red and green, itll be perth pirates in their own red, black, gold, logos everything is just used as a tool of expansion, it would be a mandate by the Arlc to state that you will have an unlitimited license beholden upon growing an area of expansion, you have to manage and help guide that area, and also take on 3 development players from that area into your 30 +6 man squad, these three have to be from that club, and will return there at seasons end, basically training living with the nrl squad, can even play 1st grade if coach wants to, they also play in reserve grade, that type of work experience, is invaluable, its kinda what happens with the origin squads.. just want to be doing it for 25 rounds, and seeing 3 development players times by 17 clubs, your basically creating talent in areas that wouldnt see that type of exposure to 1st grade

 

[Colk]

Oh yes of course, it wouldnt be the Perth rabbitohs of red and green, itll be perth pirates in their own red, black, gold, logos everything is just used as a tool of expansion, it would be a mandate by the Arlc to state that you will have an unlitimited license beholden upon growing an area of expansion, you have to manage and help guide that area, and also take on 3 development players from that area into your 30 +6 man squad, these three have to be from that club, and will return there at seasons end, basically training living with the nrl squad, can even play 1st grade if coach wants to, they also play in reserve grade, that type of work experience, is invaluable, its kinda what happens with the origin squads.. just want to be doing it for 25 rounds, and seeing 3 development players times by 17 clubs, your basically creating talent in areas that wouldnt see that type of exposure to 1st grade

Exactly mate

 

[flippikat]

So the QRL with a few extra teams?

If the top tier can be built on the foundation of the NSWRL competition, then surely the 2nd tier can be built on the foundation of the QRL competition.

 

[siv]

Exactly my point. FTA isn’t going to show a second grade competition. It will be streaming services

Unless they can strike a deal with ABC or NITV

 

[siv]

In my model there would be no QRL and NSW cup
Basically it'd be:
NRL FT + NRL reserve grade sides (FT + best U21's) $11mill cap
NRL2 FT $3mill cap
amateur third tier state based comps, you could include a end of season Challenge cup interstate or maybe interstate playoffs for these teams as well.

I like the model but if you start with a $1 maybe 2 mil cap

You can run two leagues and let Qld Cup stay as is with a newly structured statewide NSW Cup

With 18 teams you could offer top 3 in each comp entry into Round 1 of a knock out comp playing bottom 10 NRL clubs in Round 1 of a midweek cup in Round 1 of pre season trials

 

[TheGrifter]

Taking into account financial realities as well as the politics of the various rugby league bodies, this structure would be the most realistic chance to get a second division going:

NRL2 Second Division
Fulltime professional
Salary Cap / Grant = $2m
8 clubs

PNG Hunters
Sunshine Coast Falcons
Brisbane Firehawks
Ipswich Jets
North Sydney Bears
Newtown Jets
Perth Reds
Central Coast or Illawarra

*Gradually expand to 12 clubs by adding 2 clubs every few years (Central Qld, NZ, Adelaide, Cairns etc).

Qld Cup
Semi-professional
Salary Cap / Grant $500k (same as current)
10 clubs

Wynnum Manly Seagulls
Norths Devils
Souths Logan Magpies
Northern Pride
Townsville Blackhawks
Mackay Cutters
CQ Capras
Toowoomba Clydesdales
Burleigh Bears
Tweed Heads Seagulls

NSW Cup
Reserve grade teams of Sydney NRL clubs that want to have them
Salary Cap / Grant $500k (same as current)
6-8 clubs

Total clubs in the above structure would be 24-26. There are 26 clubs currently competing in the Qld/NSW Cups, so the additional cost for the ARLC would be pretty minimal, maybe $12m per year given the larger grant for NRL2. This would be much more achievable than something costing $60-80m per year.

 

[Canard]

Taking into account financial realities as well as the politics of the various rugby league bodies, this structure would be the most realistic chance to get a second division going:

NRL2 Second Division
Fulltime professional
Salary Cap / Grant = $2m
8 clubs

PNG Hunters
Sunshine Coast Falcons
Brisbane Firehawks
Ipswich Jets
North Sydney Bears
Newtown Jets
Perth Reds
Central Coast or Illawarra

*Gradually expand to 12 clubs by adding 2 clubs every few years (Central Qld, NZ, Adelaide, Cairns etc).

Qld Cup
Semi-professional
Salary Cap / Grant $500k (same as current)
10 clubs

Wynnum Manly Seagulls
Norths Devils
Souths Logan Magpies
Northern Pride
Townsville Blackhawks
Mackay Cutters
CQ Capras
Toowoomba Clydesdales
Burleigh Bears
Tweed Heads Seagulls

NSW Cup
Reserve grade teams of Sydney NRL clubs that want to have them
Salary Cap / Grant $500k (same as current)
6-8 clubs

Total clubs in the above structure would be 24-26. There are 26 clubs currently competing in the Qld/NSW Cups, so the additional cost for the ARLC would be pretty minimal, maybe $12m per year given the larger grant for NRL2. This would be much more achievable than something costing $60-80m per year.

All that just so Perth can have a team in a semi-pro/lower tier comp though? All those other clubs exist now and are playing in competitions.

Why don't Perth just join the QLD state league now? It would be much cheaper.

 

[TheGrifter]

All that just so Perth can have a team in a semi-pro/lower tier comp though? All those other clubs exist now and are playing in competitions.

Why don't Perth just join the QLD state league now? It would be much cheaper.

Not just Perth. Most of those clubs have stated ambitions of playing at a higher level than they are currently.

You're right though that in the absence of a second division Perth should apply to join the Qld Cup. But there are a couple of reasons why it's not ideal.

Qld Cup is semi-professional and there is a limits to how much players can be paid (30k per year I think). It would be hard for Perth to maintain a competitive side when you don't have a large junior base there to draw on and you can't pay players a decent wage to come and play there. But you won't develop a decent junior base until there are opportunities and pathways.

A national second division would be a step up in profile and quality from what the state league are currently.

 

[Canard]

Not just Perth. Most of those clubs have stated ambitions of playing at a higher level than they are currently.

You're right though that in the absence of a second division Perth should apply to join the Qld Cup. But there are a couple of reasons why it's not ideal.

Qld Cup is semi-professional and there is a limits to how much players can be paid (30k per year I think). It would be hard for Perth to maintain a competitive side when you don't have a large junior base there to draw on and you can't pay players a decent wage to come and play there. But you won't develop a decent junior base until there are opportunities and pathways.

A national second division would be a step up in profile and quality from what the state league are currently.

Millions of dollars for a lower tier expansion team just isn't feasible.

Why not just spend those millions on them entering the NRL?

 

[Pippen94]

Millions of dollars for a lower tier expansion team just isn't feasible.

Why not just spend those millions on them entering the NRL?

the ufc bought a rival mma promotion called strike force & tried to run it as a separate company. They quickly realized holding events under ufc banner meant drawing an extra 10k fans & many times more ppv buys.
Why would NRL waste time & resources establishing a new comp when they could simply expand the far more lucrative one they have now?!

 

[TheGrifter]

Millions of dollars for a lower tier expansion team just isn't feasible.

Why not just spend those millions on them entering the NRL?

It's a totally different scale. An NRL team costs up to $25m per year to run, and costs the ARLC $11m through the club grant.

 

[Perth Red]

because it’s taken two decades to get two teams in. How long before we have the potentially 7 or 8 more teams in it?

not to mention some places will never be big enough to host an nrl club, at the moment there really isn’t a viable second option. the state comps are not set up as genuine comps so many new clubs coming in won’t be able to compete Unless directly linked to an nrl club.

 

[Perth Red]

It's a totally different scale. An NRL team costs up to $25m per year to run, and costs the ARLC $11m through the club grant.

Yep,for what it costs nrl to have two new teams they could fund 8-10 nrl2 clubs

 

[Pippen94]

because it’s taken two decades to get two teams in. How long before we have the potentially 7 or 8 more teams in it?

not to mention some places will never be big enough to host an nrl club, at the moment there really isn’t a viable second option. the state comps are not set up as genuine comps so many new clubs coming in won’t be able to compete Unless directly linked to an nrl club.

..only Adelaide & Perth don't have teams in NSW/qld cup or nz nation comps. Feeder system already exists. Adelaide & Perth should go straight to NRL & be far bigger in everyway