What's new
The Front Row Forums

Register a free account today to become a member of the world's largest Rugby League discussion forum! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

NRLW to expand in 2023 and 24

10$ Ferret

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
733
To maximise the market and sponsorship you need to align with an NRL club.
Unfortunately its painfully obvious that companies are more willing to get involved with an NRL club than a non NRL club.
Sure clubs like Newtown and the Bears get sponsorship but there is generally a personal connection and the amounts are less than what you need to be able to sponsor an NRL related team.
 

The Great Dane

First Grade
Messages
5,579
How does NSW Cup/QLD cup rate?

I am presuming the games will stay in the afternoon timeslot?

It isn't like womens cricket that gets virtually no competition

you have RL fans that have supported their NRL side for years to potential clash in timeslots

AFL fans won't not watch their side play to watch a foreign code just because it is females

The market place is crammed

so aligning with an NRL side makes sense. As does doing the regional sides before all of Sydney
How about addressing the argument instead of throwing out a bunch of red herrings and strawmen.
 

Iamback

Bench
Messages
4,169
How about addressing the argument instead of throwing out a bunch of red herrings and strawmen.

It isn't strawmen.

NRLW and NRL will attract the same fans. you simply aren't going to put them on in competition to each other.

NRL games rate 500k-1m people. So the networks aren't going to move that on the hope that Coffs Harbour v Orange or someone in Womens League pulls the same numbers.

So when do you play these independent clubs games? Is the 1st question

2nd to that is what areas are big enough to make it viable?
 

KiamaSaint

Coach
Messages
15,917
Cowboys, Warriors and Raiders. The fourth should be Melbourne or Souths.

Has anyone seen the AFLW? The standard is rubbish. There is an argument to put it in the Melbourne market.
 

The Great Dane

First Grade
Messages
5,579
To maximise the market and sponsorship you need to align with an NRL club.
Unfortunately its painfully obvious that companies are more willing to get involved with an NRL club than a non NRL club.
Repeating the same assertion over and over doesn't make it true.

And how is it obvious that sponsors are more interested in NRL club teams than independent clubs? The NRL has never even attempted an independent side in the NRLW so how could they possibly know that there's no interest from sponsors in sides that have never existed?!

Evidence from the NRLW and other sports, and common sense, suggests it's nonsense anyway.

I see no evidence that Super Netball, Canberra Utd, etc, struggle to compete for interest from sponsors, meanwhile most of the NRLW sides major sponsors are just the men's teams sponsor and I'd bet that in most cases the women's team has just been bundled into the men's sponsorship deal.

Also there're a lot of potential sponsors out there whom simply aren't going to be interested in sponsoring a side unless they are local or have some connection to them. In other words there're definitely businesses in any given city/town/region that might be interested in sponsoring a team, but would only do it if that team was local.
Sure clubs like Newtown and the Bears get sponsorship but there is generally a personal connection and the amounts are less than what you need to be able to sponsor an NRL related team.
LOL. You're joking right?!

Of course the Bears and Jets don't pull similar numbers to the NRL sides, they're not in the NRL and/or NRLW and thus not selling the same product. However that doesn't mean that they'd be incapable of drawing similar sponsor interest if they did have NRL/NRLW sides.
 

Iamback

Bench
Messages
4,169
You'd have a point if RL was the only sport. Sponsorship dollars are hard to come by

You can combine things like Admin staff, Media person, Membership teams etc. So it limits the costs for the new sides
 

The Great Dane

First Grade
Messages
5,579
It isn't strawmen.
Yeah they are, well strawmen or non sequiturs. Look I'll show you-

Bringing up the NSW and Qld cup ratings is irrelevant because you aren't comparing like for like, and it doesn't follow from my argument that I was suggesting that the NRLW should be treated in the same way as either of those leagues. In other words it's a non sequitur.

Nobody ever suggested that the NRLW would be or should be like women's cricket, that the NRLW should schedule games in the same timeslots as the NRL, or that the NRLW would or should try to 'convert' AFL fans. They are all arguments that you have put in my mouth instead of addressing what was actually said, and as such strawmen.

It is however true that the market place is crammed, but it always has been and always will be, and there's no getting around that. In fact one of the reasons why the NRL should have had independent clubs is so they could target less saturated markets.

So that's 1 non sequitur, 3 strawmen, and a legitimate point that nobody has ever contested.
NRLW and NRL will attract the same fans. you simply aren't going to put them on in competition to each other.

NRL games rate 500k-1m people. So the networks aren't going to move that on the hope that Coffs Harbour v Orange or someone in Womens League pulls the same numbers.
Banking on the NRL fanbase to support the NRLW en masse is an error.
If it was as simple as giving a pre-existing club a NRLW side and that club's fans would follow it en masse then the NRLW's ratings and attendance would already be similar to the NRL's, which simply isn't the case.

They aren't the same product, related but not the same, and as such they appeal to slightly different audiences and trying to force it onto the NRL audience instead of allowing it to fill it's own niche is a mistake.
It's like the music industry; pop, metal, rock and roll, jazz, etc, etc, are all genres of music, but they all appeal to different groups of people (with some overlap obviously).

We should conceptualised the NRL, NRLW, even representative, state leagues, etc, as different genres of RL that will appeal to different types of people for different reasons, and accept that that's okay.
So when do you play these independent clubs games? Is the 1st question
You could use the same schedule that the NRLW is currently using... Honestly WTF is so difficult about this for you.

The only difference would be where the game is held. Instead of the game being held before the men's game on NRL matchday it would be held at the venue of the home team wherever that may be.
2nd to that is what areas are big enough to make it viable?
That's a hard question to answer without doing market research and figuring out what each club's break-even point would be, however I would have targeted markets and fan-bases that are large enough to support a team but that will/should never have a presence in the NRL, or won't for a long time.

So imagine that we are starting the NRLW from scratch, I would have targeted clubs like North Sydney, Newtown, old BRL clubs, strong country clubs, and small-medium size cities/regions like the Central Coast, Sunshine Coast, etc. I also would have looked into the potential of teams in Melbourne, Perth, and Adelaide, but those would admittedly be bigger projects.
 
Last edited:

The Great Dane

First Grade
Messages
5,579
You'd have a point if RL was the only sport. Sponsorship dollars are hard to come by
Whether or not there's competition is totally irrelevant to my argument. Bringing it up is simply an excuse to not even try.

All the arguments you are making could be made against any and all expansion, new sports leagues, or entrepreneurialism in general, yet new businesses pop up and find their niche, or fail trying, everyday. It just is what it is, and if we refused to move for fear of the risk of failure then we'd never move at all.
You can combine things like Admin staff, Media person, Membership teams etc. So it limits the costs for the new sides
Just because something is cheaper and easier doesn't mean that it's better, or even the best option.

It's one of the major problems with all women's sport ATM. Everybody wants to cut all the corners and jump straight to the end product of a successful fully professional league, but things simply don't work that way and trying to cut those corners does more harm than good.
 

Iamback

Bench
Messages
4,169
Yeah they are, well strawmen or non sequiturs. Look I'll show you-

Bringing up the NSW and Qld cup rating is irrelevant because you aren't comparing like for like, and it doesn't follow from my argument that I was suggesting that the NRLW should be treated in the same way as either of those leagues. In other words it's a non sequitur.

Nobody ever suggested that the NRLW would be or should be like women's cricket, that the NRLW should schedule games in the same timeslots as the NRL, or that the NRLW would or should try to 'convert' AFL fans. They are all arguments that you have put in my mouth instead of addressing what was actually said, and as such strawmen.

It is however true that the market place is crammed, but it always has been and always will be, and there's no getting around that. In fact one of the reasons why the NRL should have had independent clubs is so they could target less saturated markets.

So that's 1 non sequitur, 3 strawmen, and a legitimate point that nobody has ever contested.

Banking on the NRL fanbase to support the NRLW en masse is an error.
If it was as simple as giving a pre-existing club a NRLW side and that club's fans would follow it en masse then the NRLW's ratings and attendance would already be similar to the NRL's, which simply isn't the case.

They aren't the same product, related but not the same, and as such they appeal to slightly different audiences and trying to force it onto the NRL audience instead of allowing it to fill it's own niche is a mistake.
It's like the music industry; pop, metal, rock and roll, jazz, etc, etc, are all genres of music, but they all appeal to different groups of people (with some overlap obviously).

We should conceptualised the NRL, NRLW, even representative, state leagues, etc, as different genres of RL that will appeal to different types of people for different reasons, and accept that that's okay.

You could use the same schedule that the NRLW is currently using... Honestly WTF is so difficult about this for you.

The only difference would be where the game is held. Instead of the game being held before the men's game on NRL matchday it would be held at the venue of the home team wherever that may be.

That's a hard question to answer without doing market research and figuring out how much each club would need to make to break even, however I would have targeted markets and fan-bases that are large enough to support a team but that will/should never have a presence in the NRL, or won't for a long time.

So imagine that we are starting the NRLW from scratch, I would have targeted clubs like North Sydney, Newtown, old BRL clubs, strong country clubs, and small-medium size cities/regions like the Central Coast, Sunshine Coast, etc. I also would have looked into the potential of teams in Melbourne, Perth, and Adelaide, but those would admittedly be bigger projects.

So much here. Where to start

The current NRLW is on in the day so you need to compare sports ratings for competitions played in the day. as opposed to the night time

So you would have less money to work with

How many of those have womens teams in the relevant State comps now? If they had the means why don't they run teams in that

Then you take the ratings into it. Matches maybe the A League get. Though how many people watch because it is their team?

A new competition doesn't have that yet
 

The Great Dane

First Grade
Messages
5,579
So much here. Where to start

The current NRLW is on in the day so you need to compare sports ratings for competitions played in the day. as opposed to the night time
Mate why would I compare ratings at all?! I wouldn't be comparing like for like.

You're doing it again, making something up and attacking that instead of what was actually said...
So you would have less money to work with
Maybe, but you don't know that.

It's also irrelevant. Whether or not there's more or less money to begin with is meaningless, what matters is whether or not there's enough in it to get the league off the ground, and what will provide the better results long term.
How many of those have womens teams in the relevant State comps now? If they had the means why don't they run teams in that
Ahh the "why doesn't Perth run a NSW/Qld Cup side if they want an NRL side so much" argument. Because there'd be no way to monetise it, so they'd just pissing millions of dollars down the drain... Same thing for those hypothetical women's teams.

The NRLW with it's higher exposure, could, given good administration and time to develop, support profitable ventures, those state leagues never will.
Then you take the ratings into it. Matches maybe the A League get. Though how many people watch because it is their team?

A new competition doesn't have that yet
Again you are just making shit up.

It's impossible to know what my hypothetical NRLW would rate like, it doesn't exist and market research hasn't been done to ascertain general interest in the product.

However there's one thing we do know; on average fans of the male sides couldn't give two shits about the female equivalent (in all sports globally). If they did there wouldn't be the massive differences in attendance and ratings.
Attendance is particularly striking, just look at the games last weekend. The NRLW games were lucky to have a few hundred in the stands at the start of their games compared to the roughly 15K (give or take per game) the men were getting, and I have to wonder what percentage of those people would have gone to watch the girls if the price of admission wasn't bundled into the cost of an NRL game. I'd bet that it's not many...

So knowing that here's my question; why are you so dead set on trying to appeal to a market that doesn't, and never will, care about the NRLW instead of trying to build a new one that though smaller, will care enough about the NRLW that it'll pay for the privilege to support it?

BTW, if there was so much there why didn't you address any of it?
 
Last edited:

siv

First Grade
Messages
5,535
Lets just look at whats happening in the first 3 rounds

Ch9 and Fox have chosen to broadcast NRLW and not show any NSW Cup games
 

10$ Ferret

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
733
Repeating the same assertion over and over doesn't make it true.

And how is it obvious that sponsors are more interested in NRL club teams than independent clubs? The NRL has never even attempted an independent side in the NRLW so how could they possibly know that there's no interest from sponsors in sides that have never existed?!

Evidence from the NRLW and other sports, and common sense, suggests it's nonsense anyway.

I see no evidence that Super Netball, Canberra Utd, etc, struggle to compete for interest from sponsors, meanwhile most of the NRLW sides major sponsors are just the men's teams sponsor and I'd bet that in most cases the women's team has just been bundled into the men's sponsorship deal.

Also there're a lot of potential sponsors out there whom simply aren't going to be interested in sponsoring a side unless they are local or have some connection to them. In other words there're definitely businesses in any given city/town/region that might be interested in sponsoring a team, but would only do it if that team was local.

LOL. You're joking right?!

Of course the Bears and Jets don't pull similar numbers to the NRL sides, they're not in the NRL and/or NRLW and thus not selling the same product. However that doesn't mean that they'd be incapable of drawing similar sponsor interest if they did have NRL/NRLW sides.
I am not joking at all. If a team has an NRLW side but not an NRL side they will have a harder time getting sponsors.
Hell initially sponsors were going to run when all the NRLW games were going to be stand alone and not at NRL games. They wanted exposure.
Basically all I am saying is it would be too hard for a club to run an NRLW team that doesn't have an NRL side.
Try not to dig too deep a hole as you are starting to contradict yourself
 
Messages
3,688
Obviously the plan will be that all NRL Clubs have a NRLW side.

What the NSWRL/NRL need to do

Invest in local Women's Comp footy in Cities and regions and the Junior Rep/Pathways.

Currently they have the Lisa Fiaola Cup Under 17's and Tarsha Gale Cup under 19's equivalent to the Harold Matthews Cup under 17's and SG Ball under 19.

They will need to also add an equivalent under 21's comp like Jersey Flegg for Females and beef up the NSW Cup Women's Premiership

Plus add equivalent Andrew Johns under 16's and Laurie Daley Cup under 18 comps regional rep comps for Females.

Clubs will also need to have under 13 and 15 Development squads for the Girls as well to compliment Female age based comps since Females finish playing in mixed gender comps after 12 years old.

After 12 years old even Males leave the game so to keep the Females playing you need these development squads and local comps.

2.0. MIXED GENDER PARTICIPATION Males and Females can participate in Mixed Gender Rugby League Competitions (tackle) up to and including the calendar year (1 January to 31 December) in which they attain the age of 12 years.
 
Messages
3,688
Mate why would I compare ratings at all?! I wouldn't be comparing like for like.

You're doing it again, making something up and attacking that instead of what was actually said...

Maybe, but you don't know that.

It's also irrelevant. Whether or not there's more or less money to begin with is meaningless, what matters is whether or not there's enough in it to get the league off the ground, and what will provide the better results long term.

Ahh the "why doesn't Perth run a NSW/Qld Cup side if they want an NRL side so much" argument. Because there'd be no way to monetise it, so they'd just pissing millions of dollars down the drain... Same thing for those hypothetical women's teams.

The NRLW with it's higher exposure, could, given good administration and time to develop, support profitable ventures, those state leagues never will.

Again you are just making shit up.

It's impossible to know what my hypothetical NRLW would rate like, it doesn't exist and market research hasn't been done to ascertain general interest in the product.

However there's one thing we do know; on average fans of the male sides couldn't give two shits about the female equivalent (in all sports globally). If they did there wouldn't be the massive differences in attendance and ratings.
Attendance is particularly striking, just look at the games last weekend. The NRLW games were lucky to have a few hundred in the stands at the start of their games compared to the roughly 15K (give or take per game) the men were getting, and I have to wonder what percentage of those people would have gone to watch the girls if the price of admission wasn't bundled into the cost of an NRL game. I'd bet that it's not many...

So knowing that here's my question; why are you so dead set on trying to appeal to a market that doesn't, and never will, care about the NRLW instead of trying to build a new one that though smaller, will care enough about the NRLW that it'll pay for the privilege to support it?

BTW, if there was so much there why didn't you address any of it?
Why would you have standalone sides playing in an NRLW comp for though that makes no sense at all - The plan is for all NRL Clubs to have a NRLW side.

Like anything new it's popularity will grow and the standard will continually improve as the players become more and more professional.

The Women's game has real growth potential as long as they have the right structures in place for the game- the local comps/ development squads/junior reps and pathways similar to the Men's game.

It will take investment by the NRL/Various State Bodies( NSWRL/QLDRL) and NRL Clubs.

Build it and they will come - supporters , interest and sponsors
 

10$ Ferret

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
733
Marshall you are on the money with what the state leagues need to do. One of the first steps is to change the LF cup from a one weekend deal to a longer comp.
They also need to be helping clubs instead of telling them their team wasn't good enough so they are not allowed to play next year. (Glebe in the HNWP) Mind you NSW have been great at making dumbass decisions in the men's game too.
QLD also need to stop the talk and acts of tokenism and make their women's comps much more effective
 

Iamback

Bench
Messages
4,169
Obviously the plan will be that all NRL Clubs have a NRLW side.

What the NSWRL/NRL need to do

Invest in local Women's Comp footy in Cities and regions and the Junior Rep/Pathways.

Currently they have the Lisa Fiaola Cup Under 17's and Tarsha Gale Cup under 19's equivalent to the Harold Matthews Cup under 17's and SG Ball under 19.

They will need to also add an equivalent under 21's comp like Jersey Flegg for Females and beef up the NSW Cup Women's Premiership

Plus add equivalent Andrew Johns under 16's and Laurie Daley Cup under 18 comps regional rep comps for Females.

Clubs will also need to have under 13 and 15 Development squads for the Girls as well to compliment Female age based comps since Females finish playing in mixed gender comps after 12 years old.

After 12 years old even Males leave the game so to keep the Females playing you need these development squads and local comps.

2.0. MIXED GENDER PARTICIPATION Males and Females can participate in Mixed Gender Rugby League Competitions (tackle) up to and including the calendar year (1 January to 31 December) in which they attain the age of 12 years.

The Harvey Norman comp now that is running in NSW.
I believe QRL has one too is the good in between.
Remembering A Grade comps have women comps running also
 

Perth Red

Immortal
Messages
48,560
Its not that long ago that girls had to stop playing when they hit 12. To think we are heading to a semi professional league acorss the NRL clubs is pretty amazing in a short space of time. Most of the % growth in grassroots participation has been in females nationally. Not sure how the NRL gets a financial ROI in it all but from a social ROI and fan engagement perspective its got to be worthwhile.

Its probably heading up towards $750k-$1million to run a womens NRLW team so independent income will be important for the clubs unless the NRL is going to foot the total bill like the AFL does.
 

Perth Red

Immortal
Messages
48,560
The Harvey Norman comp now that is running in NSW.
I believe QRL has one too is the good in between.
Remembering A Grade comps have women comps running also
In WA we will have a 16 round 7 team premiership comp this year and running alongside it a 10 team 15 round tag womens comp. In the Jnrs we will have a girls U13's comp and a U15's comp though numbers are small in these jnrs still. last year female participation went up 26%
 

Brick Tamland

Juniors
Messages
61
https://www.smh.com.au/sport/nrl/a-...leaving-the-wests-tigers-20220329-p5a906.html

Panthers aim for 2024 NRLW bow​

The Panthers won’t be applying to enter a team in the 2023 NRLW competition. Instead, they will focus on having a team up and running the following year in time for the 2024 season.
The reason is Penrith want to make sure they are ready to go. Plans are in place to construct a purpose-built womens facility, with a field, gym and dressing sheds, next to the NRL academy behind Panthers Leagues Club.

Expect the Panthers to follow their NRL blueprint and target female players from western NSW towns like Bathurst, Orange and Mudgee.
 

Latest posts

Top