O.T. Question for the Old Timers - ones that can still think.

[Quigs]

I just finished watching the show "Coast" on S-B-arhhh S. Good show and I like it. new series next friday by the way.

Tonights repeat was on the Channel Island between Dover and France. Okay enough of the lead in.

When I was a pup playing league in the distant past we often used the terms jerseys and guernseys.

So here am I watching Coast and I had an idea that the Isle of Jersey was in the Channel Islands, but bugger me not far away from the Island of Jersey is the island of Guernsey.

Question from the floor without notice, did these two islands have anything to do with where our jerseys and guernseys originated from or is my curiosity just being caused by my twodickitis.

Seems a strange thing for me. Are there any distant Poms amongst us who are game enough to bring up their old roots, and might have an idea of where jerseys and guernseys came from.

 

[Quigs]

Here you go you old fart hippys

Some background thinking music

 

[BatteredFlake]

hmmmm!?? Have you been smoking banana peels tonight Quigs ?

 

[Quigs]

No my friend, I have always lived by the mantra that you should learn something new everyday.

That is why I am such a learned character. But even with my wealth of knowledge I do not know where the terms jersey and guernsey originate from in the terms of our rugby league game.

Curious mind Flake, one should always be prepared to ask questions and if one has the answers - one should be prepared to share such knowledge.

 

[BatteredFlake]

Afraid I cannot enlighten you .I beleive theres also some cows by the name of Jersey and Guernsey ,If thats of any help .

 

[Go Nulla]

Farked if I know Quigs ...

 

[Quigs]

Farked if I know Quigs ...

Scratched Nulla from Eddies' Hot Seat

 

[gUt]

My guess would be that jersey is the original term and that as a joke, almost by way of rhyming slang, a jersey could be colloquially called a guernsey. But then again it could have happened the other way around for all I know.

 

[carcharias]

I think it all does indeed go back to the cows theory.
I am also thinking the term "jumper" may have been another word for sheep.
jumper = wool
Maybe when they used to get around in cow skins it started.

 

[Lurkingshark]

And I quote from Wiki:
"In Australia, the word "guernsey" is used to describe the usually sleeveless shirt worn by AFL players, although the word “jumper” is also commonly used. The top worn by NRL and ARU players is more commonly called a jersey, though it is still frequently called a guernsey, often interchangeably. As an extension of this tradition, the expression "to get a guernsey" is a metaphor for being selected for something or to gain recognition for an achievement."

So you see, clear as mud. I have a genuine guernsey from Guernsey...though it has nothing to do with football.
The Channel Islands are a funny thing, called balliwicks which are self governing but come under the British Crown. Apart from Jersey & Guernsey, there is also Alderney & Sark. My late father-in-law lived on Sark, it can only be reached by boat, and cars & aircraft are banned.
The island is governed by the Signor, a hereditary position, who owns all the property, is the only person permitted to keep chooks, and retains the right to sleep with any new bride on the island on her wedding night.

 

[gunnamatta bay]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guernsey_(clothing)
The guernsey came into being as a garment for fishermen who required a warm, hard wearing, yet comfortable item of clothing that would resist the sea spray. The hard twist given to the tightly packed wool fibres in the spinning process and the tightly knitted stitches, produced a finish that would "turn water" and is capable of repelling rain and spray.[2]
The guernsey was traditionally knitted by the fishermen's wives and the pattern passed down from mother to daughter through the generations.

So those skin tight things the NRL players wear these days are distantly related to fishermen's apparel?

 

[Vin Fizz]

Got this from a internet discussion (which is an iron clad guarantee of accuracy

" in England, a jersey is often used just for a football shirt, especially rugby.
Whereas in Australia, they call a football jersey a guernsey. Strange that both names are also channel islands."

That might infer that the good ole tyranny of distance is at work here, and some poor cove got confooozed about which island's name is used to decribe a "jumper". The error has perpetuated. So Ill take B thanks Eddie "" its a f**k Up".

 

[Megalodon]

guernsey

Guernsey is the second largest of the Channel Islands. The name is used attributively to designate things found in or associated with Guernsey. Thus the term Guernsey cow for an animal of a breed of usually brown and white dairy cattle that originated in Guernsey.

In the early nineteenth century the term Guernsey shirt arose for `a close-fitting woollen sweater, especially one worn by sailors'. During the gold rushes in Australia in the mid nineteenth century, in a specialisation of this sense, the term guernsey was used to describe a kind of shirt worn by gold-miners:

1852 F. Lancelot, Australia as it Is: The usual male attire is a pair of common slop trowsers, a blue guernsey... a broad-brimmed cabbage-tree hat.

In a further specialisation in Australian English, the term guernsey was used to refer to a football jumper, especially as worn by a player of Australian Rules football:

1925 Bulletin: The majority was with an urchin who 'wasn't takin' any chance with a snake in a football guernsey.

1945 Australian Week-end Book: His football guernsey isn't striped so darkly.

1969 A. Hopgood, And the Big Men Fly: Drop-kick your way to fame and fortune in number 10 guernsey.

1973 K. Dunstan, Sports: On this cushion was the most cherished article in all Collingwood - the No. 1 black and white Collingwood guernsey.

From the football meaning there arose the phrase to get a guernsey or be given a guernsey, meaning to win selection for a sporting team. In a widening of this sense, the phrase came to mean 'to win selection, recognition, approbation', and is commonly used in non-sporting contexts:

1957 D. Whitington, Treasure upon Earth: The executive won't give me a guernsey for the Senate.

1975 Bulletin: Doug was the next man on the NSW Liberal Country Party ticket... and if everything goes according to the rules... then he should be the one to get the guernsey for Canberra.

1979 The Age: `To get a guernsey'... Originally it was a great honour to be selected for a Victorian Football League team. Now it means to be invited, selected or included in just about anything.

Source: http://andc.anu.edu.au/australian-words/meanings-origins?field_alphabet_value=121

jersey (n.)
1580s as a type of knitted cloth; 1842 as a breed of cattle; both from Jersey, one of the Channel Islands. Its name is said to be a corruption of L. Caesarea, the Roman name for the island (or another near it), influenced by O.E. ey "island;" but perhaps rather a Viking name (perhaps meaning "Geirr's island"). The meaning "woolen knitted close-fitting tunic," especially one worn during sporting events, is from 1836.

Guernsey
breed of cattle, 1834, from the Channel Island where it was bred; the island name is Viking. Like neighboring Jersey, it was also taken as the name for a coarse, close-fitting vest of wool (1839), and in Australia the word supplies many of the usages of jersey in U.S. The second element of the name is O.N. ey "island;" the first element uncertain, traditionally meaning "green," but perhaps rather representing a Viking personal name, e.g. Grani.

Source: http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?search=jersey

 

[coolumsharkie]

Bingo Mega.. Was a good question too, I was googling away myself.

 

[Quigs]

Okay ............. hmmmmmmmmmm...... so we know they are called both, and still can be called both.

But, how the f**k did the bloody things get called that anyway.

I know those poofy lycra sh!t that the yawnion play in should be called mardigras but I can assume some of the crap we have had to play in could be put in the same category.

Anyhow thanks so far, keep up the good work

 

[coolumsharkie]

It would be one of those words that get handed down I would imagine Quigs,

n the early nineteenth century the term Guernsey shirt arose for `a close-fitting woollen sweater, especially one worn by sailors'. During the gold rushes in Australia in the mid nineteenth century, in a specialisation of this sense, the term guernsey was used to describe a kind of shirt worn by gold-miners:

Maybe a cold climate quip that stuck around.

 

[Lurkingshark]

Okay ............. hmmmmmmmmmm...... so we know they are called both, and still can be called both.

But, how the f**k did the bloody things get called that anyway.

Jersey was famous for its knitting trade in medieval times, and because of that original fame, the name jersey is still applied to many forms of knitted fabric, round or flat. Ditto guernsey.

Another definition: A jersey is an item of knitted clothing traditionally in wool or cotton with sleeves, worn as a pullover as it does not open at the front, unlike a cardigan. It is usually close-fitting and machine knitted in contrast to a guernsey that is more often hand knit with a thicker yarn.

 

[Quigs]

Thank you Lurking and Cools.

 

[BatteredFlake]

Re: O.T. Question for the Old Timers - ones that can still think.
Quigs "Thank you Lurking and Cools."

Well I've got NO thanks for Lurking. I had been perfectly content with my lot in life till I read about the Signor of Sark . Now Im consumed by envy .How good would it be to be the only one on the Island allowed to keep Chooks ?:crazy: In fact as its post 19- f**k you Lurking!!!f**k this Knowledge Shyte,and f**k, Sark and run amark!

 

[carcharias]

But cows are not made from wool.