Oceania Cup 2019

[yakstorm]

If Australia suddenly has 3x Rep Weekends, expect them to no longer take part in the tournament.

The RLIF / APRLC will use the opportunity to play the event between the other six Test status Pacific Nations.

Anyway, whilst less than ideal, the reason why the Oceania Cup is so short is simply because the RLIF wanted the event to happen 3 out of every 4 years. If it was a once every 4 year event, adding a Final or having everyone play everyone else would have been achievable, but Australia don't want to play more than 2 Tests the year after a World Cup and NZ wanted the ability to host tours and go on tours.

Unfortunately for everyone it looks like in the short term that the maximum number of matches the Tier 1 nations may play (outside of World Cup years) in a year is 6.

1x Mid Year and 4-5x Post Season. England played 6x last year, NZ would have if France didn't cancel their Test.

NZ will go 4x this year plus the World 9s. Australia will claim their 4x via the PMXIII, World 9s and Oceania Cup, whilst next year they have as a minimum 1x Test v NZ and 3x against England.

 

[adamkungl]

If Australia suddenly has 3x Rep Weekends, expect them to no longer take part in the tournament.

The RLIF / APRLC will use the opportunity to play the event between the other six Test status Pacific Nations.

Anyway, whilst less than ideal, the reason why the Oceania Cup is so short is simply because the RLIF wanted the event to happen 3 out of every 4 years. If it was a once every 4 year event, adding a Final or having everyone play everyone else would have been achievable, but Australia don't want to play more than 2 Tests the year after a World Cup and NZ wanted the ability to host tours and go on tours.

Unfortunately for everyone it looks like in the short term that the maximum number of matches the Tier 1 nations may play (outside of World Cup years) in a year is 6.

1x Mid Year and 4-5x Post Season. England played 6x last year, NZ would have if France didn't cancel their Test.

NZ will go 4x this year plus the World 9s. Australia will claim their 4x via the PMXIII, World 9s and Oceania Cup, whilst next year they have as a minimum 1x Test v NZ and 3x against England.

So as everyone expected, Australia is dragging the chain for everyone else.
PMXIII and W9s aren't tests.
6 tests a year is fine, actually great.
The problem is Australia will only ever play 6 in a World Cup year.


Re: OC 3 of every 4 years, does that mean the Continental Cup mentioned from the RLIF meet is already dead in the water?

 

[Hello, I'm The Doctor]

So as everyone expected, Australia is dragging the chain for everyone else.
PMXIII and W9s aren't tests.
6 tests a year is fine, actually great.
The problem is Australia will only ever play 6 in a World Cup year.


Re: OC 3 of every 4 years, does that mean the Continental Cup mentioned from the RLIF meet is already dead in the water?

I reckon you have just misinterpreted what they meant by Continental Cup...

Maybe it is already forgotten, but i reckon it was never intended to include the Oceanic nations in the first place.

 

[roughyedspud]

I reckon you have just misinterpreted what they meant by Continental Cup...

Maybe it is already forgotten, but i reckon it was never intended to include the Oceanic nations in the first place.

Yeah this Oceania cup isn't the "2nd global RLIF event"

the 2nd event was supposed to be the 8 team continental cup that replaced the 4nations but the powers that be,the RLPA,dragged their feet about it cos the Aussie's couldn't commit to it...so the world 9s,which was supposed to be a "3rd RLIF event" but it's now become the 2nd...if that makes sense?

 

[adamkungl]

The "Continental Cup" concept is easy to build just by filling in the gaps.

In year 2 of the cycle we have somewhere between 8 and 12 teams that are qualified for the next World Cup.
Forget over-ambitious 6 or 8 team tournaments, they're too big too expensive and too much like a WC-rerun.
Simply split them into groups of 4 or 3 by ranking. You're effectively replacing the old 4-Nations, as was originally planned, but with a wider scope giving opportunities to all nations.

If it was played this year, as it should have :

The Championship
Australia hosting England, New Zealand and Tonga

The Cup:
Fiji hosting France, Samoa, and Lebanon

The Shield:
PNG hosting Wales and Jamaica

EASY. OBVIOUS.

 

[jim_57]

The "Continental Cup" concept is easy to build just by filling in the gaps.

In year 2 of the cycle we have somewhere between 8 and 12 teams that are qualified for the next World Cup.
Forget over-ambitious 6 or 8 team tournaments, they're too big too expensive and too much like a WC-rerun.
Simply split them into groups of 4 or 3 by ranking. You're effectively replacing the old 4-Nations, as was originally planned, but with a wider scope giving opportunities to all nations.

If it was played this year, as it should have :

The Championship
Australia hosting England, New Zealand and Tonga

The Cup:
Fiji hosting France, Samoa, and Lebanon

The Shield:
PNG hosting Wales and Jamaica

EASY. OBVIOUS.

I think this is a good idea, 6-8 takes away from the World Cup significantly.

I'd look at running Oceania (&Asia), Euro, Americas & MEA Cups every year in tiers excluding WC years. Include Australia, England & NZ all in these tournaments every year as well.

In the 23/27/31 play a tiered Continental system similar to what you've suggested with qualification routes available via all of the regional tournaments.

 

[adamkungl]

I think this is a good idea, 6-8 takes away from the World Cup significantly.

I'd look at running Oceania (&Asia), Euro, Americas & MEA Cups every year in tiers excluding WC years. Include Australia, England & NZ all in these tournaments every year as well.

In the 23/27/31 play a tiered Continental system similar to what you've suggested with qualification routes available via all of the regional tournaments.

Basically.
"even" years 2020, 22, 24.. have the regional tournaments.
"odd" non WC years 2023, 27 have the cross-regional 4Ns

Every nation gets opportunities every year.

 

[Springs09]

The "Continental Cup" concept is easy to build just by filling in the gaps.

In year 2 of the cycle we have somewhere between 8 and 12 teams that are qualified for the next World Cup.
Forget over-ambitious 6 or 8 team tournaments, they're too big too expensive and too much like a WC-rerun.
Simply split them into groups of 4 or 3 by ranking. You're effectively replacing the old 4-Nations, as was originally planned, but with a wider scope giving opportunities to all nations.

If it was played this year, as it should have :

The Championship
Australia hosting England, New Zealand and Tonga

The Cup:
Fiji hosting France, Samoa, and Lebanon

The Shield:
PNG hosting Wales and Jamaica

EASY. OBVIOUS.

Okay, but for argument's sake, what's so much bigger or more expensive about say England hosting a group of Australia, Ireland and Fiji and France hosting a group of NZ, Tonga and Lebanon and then a final?

 

[adamkungl]

Okay, but for argument's sake, what's so much bigger or more expensive about say England hosting a group of Australia, Ireland and Fiji and France hosting a group of NZ, Tonga and Lebanon and then a final?

The $ outlay is basically the same, but in that option you have less big ticket matchups making good money.
Also i've gone back and forth on different format ideas, but at the moment I like the competitive intensity of a ranked 4-Nations, rather than a half-WC pools format.

What I'd realllllly like is the 4N format but 2 rounds home-and-away instead of hosted. But I'm at least semi-realistic about what this sport is capable of...

 

[Hello, I'm The Doctor]

If it was played this year, as it should have :

The Championship
Australia hosting England, New Zealand and Tonga

The Cup:
Fiji hosting France, Samoa, and Lebanon

The Shield:
PNG hosting Wales and Jamaica

EASY. OBVIOUS.

There are a few problems with this that separate Oceanic Cup and Atlantic Cups would solve...

- The immediate cost of flying teams to the others side of the planet is huge. These more local comps limit the travel massively.

- These comps dont offer much in building rivalries. Why is anyone likely to care about FranceVSamoa or EnglandVTonga? I would say it is better to invest time in making the local rivalries huge and building the rest of the WC from there.

- Your Championship format just reenforces the old Tier 1, Tier 2 segregation. It is of course obvious who will win an Oceanic or Atlantic Cup, but the only way we will ever take the training wheels off International RL is by mixing these teams together and let them improve

 

[Hello, I'm The Doctor]

The $ outlay is basically the same, but in that option you have less big ticket matchups making good money.
Also i've gone back and forth on different format ideas, but at the moment I like the competitive intensity of a ranked 4-Nations, rather than a half-WC pools format.

What I'd realllllly like is the 4N format but 2 rounds home-and-away instead of hosted. But I'm at least semi-realistic about what this sport is capable of...

Those big ticket matches only exist in the top pool...

If you combine all of the top teams, you declare that the second level is just made up of the teams not good enough for Group 1. You condemn their comp to obscurity before they have even begun.

 

[adamkungl]

There are a few problems with this that separate Oceanic Cup and Atlantic Cups would solve...

- The immediate cost of flying teams to the others side of the planet is huge. These more local comps limit the travel massively.

- These comps dont offer much in building rivalries. Why is anyone likely to care about FranceVSamoa or EnglandVTonga? I would say it is better to invest time in making the local rivalries huge and building the rest of the WC from there.

- Your Championship format just reenforces the old Tier 1, Tier 2 segregation. It is of course obvious who will win an Oceanic or Atlantic Cup, but the only way we will ever take the training wheels off International RL is by mixing these teams together and let them improve

In my format the Regional cups would be played 2 years (2022, 2024) to every one of the Championship (2023) ...

While all your points are true, I'm not arguing that regional tournaments shouldn't be played more often. I'm very in favour of it.

But we need the big 3 playing each other between World Cups, and we need a varied calendar, which playing Oceania Cup every year doesn't give.

 

[adamkungl]

Those big ticket matches only exist in the top pool...

If you combine all of the top teams, you declare that the second level is just made up of the teams not good enough for Group 1. You condemn their comp to obscurity before they have even begun.

This is exactly the same as the Oceania Cup format with a different ranking method..
The top pool has big ticket matchups. The second pool is made up of teams not good enough for Group 1. They can earn their way to Group 1 through performance, giving every one of their games meaning.

Teams ranked 5-8 in the world aren't obscure but they are currently not going to sell 30,000 tickets either.