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O'Davis has a say

roopy

Referee
Messages
27,980
O'Davis says drugs and culture change put fans offside
CHRIS BARRETT

March 6, 2010
NEWCASTLE legend Robbie O'Davis has bemoaned the decline of the Knights' ''home-grown culture'' and warned that the drugs crisis engulfing the club has the potential to further erode its support base.
With both Danny Wicks and Chris Houston facing charges of supplying drugs including ecstasy and cocaine, the Clive Churchill medallist and two-time premiership-winning fullback believes the lack of locally born or raised players in the first-grade squad was having a detrimental effect on the club's status in the city.
Wicks, from Grafton, and Houston, from Moruya, were both recruited from St George Illawarra.
O'Davis, who served a 22-match ban in 1998 for steroid use, said he felt no sympathy for anyone who was proven to have supplied drugs but could identify the fall they would take.
''As far as them going out and jeopardising their careers and their club, I know first-hand what it's all about,'' O'Davis said. ''But if you're indulging in drugs, trying to make money when they're on three times any person in the town's wages … it's just stupidity.''
The former Australian and Queensland State of Origin fullback said the profile of most Knights players was far removed from what it once was when stars such as Andrew and Matthew Johns, Paul Harragon, Adam Muir and Matt Gidley were at the club.
''No one in this town has got a really passionate love for the players like they used to. They'd call them family members,'' he said. ''You hear it in the street all the time. They say 'there isn't the personalities in that side that there used to be'. There's four or five from the town that play in the side now whereas it used to be 10 or 11 or more.''
O'Davis joined the chorus of former Newcastle players, and the Knights administration, in denying that a culture of drug use has existed at the club. Instead, he said the common theme in a play-hard, party-hard lifestyle during his 13 seasons at the club was alcohol. ''We got known as the team that won full of piss,'' he said, with a laugh.
While admitting that times had changed and there was no place for a culture of heavy alcohol use at the club, he said the latest allegations against former housemates Wicks and Houston, coupled with Andrew Johns's previous admission of drug use, were tainting the legacy of the Knights' great teams of the past.
O'Davis said: ''I walk into a coffee shop and we're the ones getting questions again: 'You were doing this sort of stuff when you were playing … Johnsey proved that'. You say back 'it's not like that at all'. The old boys are starting to get the questions if it was a culture that ran through our club.''
O'Davis, who works on commission as an insurance broker, said he offered to speak to the Knights playing group about his own fall from grace before Houston's arrest on Monday but was told Newcastle's ''alcohol and drug policies [are] in place'' and he would not be required.
''I think [it's time to get] someone in who's served the time for committing the crime, it's about time to get someone like that in front of them,'' he said. ''I signed two $1.2 million contracts in my career.
''I lost marriages, I lost massive amounts of income, sponsorships. Now I work for $600 a week.''
http://www.theage.com.au/rugby-leag...re-change-put-fans-offside-20100305-poru.html
 

Nuffy

Bench
Messages
4,075
Not sure this type of article does anyone any good, neither the club nor Robbie.

Better to keep his mouth shut I would have thought.
 

perverse

Referee
Messages
26,683
you actually have to have good local players before you can have them playing first grade...
 

Alex28

Coach
Messages
12,005
It is crazy that the club wouldn't want involvement from the old boys with such issues - particularly those who have been there and felt the consequences.
 

roopy

Referee
Messages
27,980
you actually have to have good local players before you can have them playing first grade...
I could easily name a side of Newcastle juniors who are better than our current lot.
The problem was that we were paying them too much - not that we don't breed them.
In the future I hope to see us get back to locally produced players - and if our retention guys do their job we should keep them for less than they would get elsewhere - because they wouldn't have to move.
That is how it worked for 15 years or more - till we went silly in the Hagan years.
 

perverse

Referee
Messages
26,683
I could easily name a side of Newcastle juniors who are better than our current lot.
The problem was that we were paying them too much - not that we don't breed them.
In the future I hope to see us get back to locally produced players - and if our retention guys do their job we should keep them for less than they would get elsewhere - because they wouldn't have to move.
That is how it worked for 15 years or more - till we went silly in the Hagan years.
how many of them were let go in the hagen era, though?

most of them i'd wager. it's not like we've had much come through since the cleanout. we let go of a couple that we shouldn't have (snowden immediately comes to mind), but all in all we haven't had much come through at all since smith first got here, really. it's all well and good to say we want a local team, and beat your chest about it, but without the local talent then we're doing about as good as we can in that respect.

it's not like we've been treating our local juniors that great once they hit grade anyway... look at how we're ruining mullen. i think he would really settle into the player we all know he can be if he was just given the same damn job for a solid year.

honestly, the real success stories in our team at the moment are the imports. Taia, De Gois, Hilder - all amongst our best last year. most of our "locals" like Gidley, Simpson, Mullen, Paterson, Taufua, Uate range from stagnate, inconsistent, disappointing, going backwards or just general plodders.
 
Last edited:

Spot On

Coach
Messages
13,902
Just on the old boys, some were very unimpressed with the way the juniors mingled with them, spoke to them and generally showed a lack of respect for them and the club traditions at last year's Old Boys Day. A lot of "wearing their hats backwards crap and all the sh*t that goes with that" and "carrying on like one of their first grade idols" may have pissed a few off I hear.
 

Alex28

Coach
Messages
12,005
I could easily name a side of Newcastle juniors who are better than our current lot.
The problem was that we were paying them too much - not that we don't breed them.
In the future I hope to see us get back to locally produced players - and if our retention guys do their job we should keep them for less than they would get elsewhere - because they wouldn't have to move.
That is how it worked for 15 years or more - till we went silly in the Hagan years.
Name the squad Roopy - a squad of 25 Knights juniors eligible for the 2010 season that would be better than what we have right now - not just listing the best ever 25 Knights locals. 25 players who would actually have a dig playing under us. I don't think you can do it.

I am all for more locals - but we need a mix of locals and quality imports. That's what got us premierships in 1997 and 2001. It was never an all locals affair.
 

Alex28

Coach
Messages
12,005
Just on the old boys, some were very unimpressed with the way the juniors mingled with them, spoke to them and generally showed a lack of respect for them and the club traditions at last year's Old Boys Day. A lot of "wearing their hats backwards crap and all the sh*t that goes with that" and "carrying on like one of their first grade idols" may have pissed a few off I hear.
It couldn't possibly be a generation gap could it? I mean I'm 35 and when I see the way guys half my age carry on at times it annoys me too. That isn't necessarily a lack of respect - it just the way young guys are these days.
 

Spot On

Coach
Messages
13,902
It couldn't possibly be a generation gap could it? I mean I'm 35 and when I see the way guys half my age carry on at times it annoys me too. That isn't necessarily a lack of respect - it just the way young guys are these days.

No Alex. A definite lack of respect for legends of the game mate. Immaturity and age difference aside - a number of juniors at the club couldn't have given a sh*t about who these blokes were and what they did for the club and that is sad.
 

roopy

Referee
Messages
27,980
Name the squad Roopy - a squad of 25 Knights juniors eligible for the 2010 season that would be better than what we have right now - not just listing the best ever 25 Knights locals. 25 players who would actually have a dig playing under us. I don't think you can do it.

I am all for more locals - but we need a mix of locals and quality imports. That's what got us premierships in 1997 and 2001. It was never an all locals affair.

Quinn
Matt Gidley
Ben Farrar
Josh Perry
Dane Tilse
Danny Buderus
Kade Snowden
Mick Ennis
Brett Kimmorley
Kurt Gidley
James McManus
Aku Uate
Scott Dureau
Luke Walsh
Brad Tighe
Todd Lowrie
Dan Tolar
Clint Newton
Cory Paterson
Daniel Abraham
Jarrod Mullen
Mark Tuafua
Steve Simpson
Matt White
Timana Tahu

Starting side

Kidley
Tahu
Midley
McManus
Uate
Mullen
Kimmorley
Snowden
Ennis
Perry
Newton
Simmo
Paterson

Buderus
Tilse
Tuafua
Lowrie
 
Last edited:

Frederick

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
27,633
Kidley = Kidley
Tahu > Vuna - Tahu was probably the best winger we've had.
Midley < Sau - Sau doesn't have the passing game, but is a stronger defender and better runner.
Farrar < MacDougall - Even as an old man Doogs is better than a lot of other centres out there.
Uate = Uate
Finch = Mullen - Both have the ability, but are far too inconsistant. If Mullen finds consistancy he will be better.
Kimmorley > Dureau - Yeah, no contest here
Snowden = Cross - Snowy had all the talent and promise but never kicked on.
Ennis > De Gois - Only just.
Perry < Tuimavave - Not much in this one either
Newton < Taia - No contest
Simmo = Simmo
Paterson = Paterson

Buderus < Hilder - Bedsy just doesn't have it anymore
Tilse = Tolar
Tuafua = Taufua
Lowrie < Fa'aoso - Fa'aoso more explosive, better impact forward.

I'm happy with the team we've got
 

nqcowboy87

Bench
Messages
4,181
Quote:
O'Davis says drugs and culture change put fans offside
CHRIS BARRETT

March 6, 2010
NEWCASTLE legend Robbie O'Davis has bemoaned the decline of the Knights' ''home-grown culture'' and warned that the drugs crisis engulfing the club has the potential to further erode its support base.
With both Danny Wicks and Chris Houston facing charges of supplying drugs including ecstasy and cocaine, the Clive Churchill medallist and two-time premiership-winning fullback believes the lack of locally born or raised players in the first-grade squad was having a detrimental effect on the club's status in the city.
Wicks, from Grafton, and Houston, from Moruya, were both recruited from St George Illawarra.
O'Davis, who served a 22-match ban in 1998 for steroid use, said he felt no sympathy for anyone who was proven to have supplied drugs but could identify the fall they would take.
''As far as them going out and jeopardising their careers and their club, I know first-hand what it's all about,'' O'Davis said. ''But if you're indulging in drugs, trying to make money when they're on three times any person in the town's wages … it's just stupidity.''
The former Australian and Queensland State of Origin fullback said the profile of most Knights players was far removed from what it once was when stars such as Andrew and Matthew Johns, Paul Harragon, Adam Muir and Matt Gidley were at the club.
''No one in this town has got a really passionate love for the players like they used to. They'd call them family members,'' he said. ''You hear it in the street all the time. They say 'there isn't the personalities in that side that there used to be'. There's four or five from the town that play in the side now whereas it used to be 10 or 11 or more.''
O'Davis joined the chorus of former Newcastle players, and the Knights administration, in denying that a culture of drug use has existed at the club. Instead, he said the common theme in a play-hard, party-hard lifestyle during his 13 seasons at the club was alcohol. ''We got known as the team that won full of piss,'' he said, with a laugh.
While admitting that times had changed and there was no place for a culture of heavy alcohol use at the club, he said the latest allegations against former housemates Wicks and Houston, coupled with Andrew Johns's previous admission of drug use, were tainting the legacy of the Knights' great teams of the past.
O'Davis said: ''I walk into a coffee shop and we're the ones getting questions again: 'You were doing this sort of stuff when you were playing … Johnsey proved that'. You say back 'it's not like that at all'. The old boys are starting to get the questions if it was a culture that ran through our club.''
O'Davis, who works on commission as an insurance broker, said he offered to speak to the Knights playing group about his own fall from grace before Houston's arrest on Monday but was told Newcastle's ''alcohol and drug policies [are] in place'' and he would not be required.
''I think [it's time to get] someone in who's served the time for committing the crime, it's about time to get someone like that in front of them,'' he said. ''I signed two $1.2 million contracts in my career.
''I lost marriages, I lost massive amounts of income, sponsorships. Now I work for $600 a week.''

http://www.theage.com.au/rugby-leagu...0305-poru.html

i remember back in 2004 big league article that hagan blasted the recruitment policy of the club and said the days of the knights relying on local juniors had to stop and they had to go out and actively recruit stars instead of buying one player each year and relying on the lower graders coming through
 

Alex28

Coach
Messages
12,005
Quinn - agreed
Matt Gidley - past it
Ben Farrar - no better than what we have
Josh Perry - was lazy here, was never going to achieve what he did at Manly here
Dane Tilse - blew his chances here being a dickhead
Danny Buderus - completely past it
Kade Snowden - no better than anyone we have here
Mick Ennis - is good, but really that much better than De Gois? For mine De Gois is smarter, calmer, more mature and less of a dickhead.
Brett Kimmorley - agreed
Kurt Gidley
James McManus
Aku Uate - just wont make it in the NRL roopy.
Scott Dureau - dead weight
Luke Walsh - too small to make it
Brad Tighe - overrated here, continues to prove that at Penrith
Todd Lowrie - no better than what we have here
Dan Tolar
Clint Newton - really wasn't prepared to put in 100% all the time. Better off without him
Cory Paterson
Daniel Abraham - really hope he kicks on this year. He deserves better than what he ended up getting
Jarrod Mullen
Mark Tuafua
Steve Simpson
Matt White - no better than what we have
Timana Tahu - agreed

So...including players we already have and players that would actually improve the club we have a grand total of 13. The remainder you have picked are either past it, lazy bums who wouldn't put in for the club, dickheads or no better than what we already have.
 

Alex28

Coach
Messages
12,005
I could easily name a side of Newcastle juniors who are better than our current lot.
The problem was that we were paying them too much - not that we don't breed them.
In the future I hope to see us get back to locally produced players - and if our retention guys do their job we should keep them for less than they would get elsewhere - because they wouldn't have to move.
That is how it worked for 15 years or more - till we went silly in the Hagan years.
You have really got me thinking about this...your theory is flawed because we have always had to pay overs to keep the cream of our local talent because we created a bunch of players that were so good that other clubs wanted to poach them. The days of players staying at the club they grew up with for three-quarters of the pay died with Super League. It's just not feasible.

We have always needed outsiders in the club. Always. Take the team of the era:

1. O'Davis - import
2. Tahu - local junior (but was recruited from outside of the Hunter)
3. Midley - local
4. Hughes - local
5. MacDougall - import
6. Johns - local
7. Johns - local
8. Sargant - import
9. Buderus - local junior (but was recruited from outside of the Hunter)
10. Harragon - local
11. Simpson - local
12. Kennedy - import
13. Glanville - import
14. Hagan - import
15. Kidley - local
16. Butterfield - import
17. Muir - local

So that makes:

Pure Hunter Locals - 8
Knights Juniors from outside of region - 2
Imports - 7

See...always relied on imports in some shape or form. Even some guys who are considered to be Knights royalty came from outside of the region. Seems to get forgotten sometimes...
 

Serc

First Grade
Messages
6,902
I had to laugh when Robbie O pointed out where Wicks and Houston came from as part of the 'non-locals' thing, when he's a Queenslander...:lol:
 

aqua_duck

Coach
Messages
18,629
Imagine a side with
Kidley
McManus
Sau
Tahu
Vuna
Mullen
Kimmorley
Snowden
Ennis
Simmo
Tupou
Taia
Bird

Tilse
Paterson
Fa'aoso
Hilder

Unfortunately you can't keep them all. Guys like Kimmorley and Ennis were born in the wrong era from a knights perspective, if both were born 5-10 years later they'd be career clubman. Tupou was an overweight bench player with us, Tahu left for 300k a year, and Tilse got the sack for being a dick.
Only guys we should've kept were Bird and Snowden. Really I blame the Hagan era for losing both the players. Bird should've been locked up long term instead we spent big $ on nuffies like Reynoldson. Snowden's development came to a standstill under Hagan, and his attitude wasn't up to scratch, still think Smith should've kept him
 

roopy

Referee
Messages
27,980
forgot Bird and Tupou.
I also see Jason Schirnack has made the Wests top 25.
It'll be interesting to see if he turns out better than the ones we kept.
 

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