Old Man Ronald Had a farm

[Tiger Hawk]

So he`s an experienced 2 time premiership winninning international that should be exempt from critisizm for doing nothing but miss tackles all season, yet a young 19 year old local junior who is SIMILARLY having a forgetfull season deserves to be ripped apart ??? Makes sense to me ???:roll:

He's not exempt but again you're missing what I was saying.

You try to say that Whatuira is always owned by Cooper and when I address that your answer is "why can't we criticise him". You can, just try to actually make a valid point next time. Highlight where Cooper has owned him. I can't recall Cooper ever tearing us up. Gasnier yes, Cooper no.

If he chooses to go for more than $300k then so be it. As I said, that's the max I'd be prepared to pay. He's not the best around, but he's certainly not as bad as all that. Any centre who averages better than a try every 2 games is doing something right.

 

[Vicious]

How many centres make opportunities out of nothing. There are 2. Hodges and Gasnier. Perhaps Tahu once or twice a yr when he isn't injured. The likes of King, Bell, Cooper (who is ordinary and garbage as Origin has shown) all rely on their inside men to create chances for them. Phats can find the line and when he is being fed good ball by Benji and Hodgo as opposed to sh*t by Morris he is a great finisher.

McDonnell is beyond being defended. We have won 3/22 or thereabouts with him playing. The stat doesn't lie

You`ll be adding Chris Lawrence to that list very shortly.

 

[Vicious]

He's not exempt but again you're missing what I was saying.

You try to say that Whatuira is always owned by Cooper and when I address that your answer is "why can't we criticise him". You can, just try to actually make a valid point next time. Highlight where Cooper has owned him. I can't recall Cooper ever tearing us up. Gasnier yes, Cooper no.

If he chooses to go for more than $300k then so be it. As I said, that's the max I'd be prepared to pay. He's not the best around, but he's certainly not as bad as all that. Any centre who averages better than a try every 2 games is doing something right.

I have highlighted the fact that i`ve seen with my own two eyes, Matt Cooper who is no superstar, cause Paul Whatuira no end of trouble every time they have played. As i`ve also previously stated, luckily for us, the one time Cooper was really kept in check against us was the `2005 semi. But, was it not Fatz who missed Wes Naiquama one on one that led to a long range Dragons try in that very same game ???

Anyways, i`m not going to keep on about my opinion that Fatz is over rated, but i`m failing to understand how he`s getting all these wraps about being a great defender ???

 

[Tiger Hawk]

We'll just have to agree to disagree! I don't think Fats is brilliant, but sometimes it seems as though you think he's chopped liver or something. He is a quality player but yes, he has had a couple of shockers recently. And no, it was Fitzhenry if memory serves who fluffed up in defence in the semi.

 

[Vicious]

We'll just have to agree to disagree! I don't think Fats is brilliant, but sometimes it seems as though you think he's chopped liver or something. He is a quality player but yes, he has had a couple of shockers recently. And no, it was Fitzhenry if memory serves who fluffed up in defence in the semi.

Fair enough.
Put it this way, if i was in Wazza McDonnell`s shoes, there`s no way i`d be going over $300,000 per season for him and i`d instead sign the extremely hard running Josh Graham who for some reason can`t get a run on the Gold Coast despite playing very strongly off the bench in limited game time early in the season !!!

He`s also a very physical defender who was used mainly in the back row off the bench by the Titans this season. He`s a player that certainly has a bit of size and puts his body on the lline, something we could certainly do with.

 

[themanonthehill]

Old man ronald is too busy negotiating 3 year contracts for his son to worry about signing anyone from another club. Lawrence is class ... dunno if you meant i'd be adding him to the list of centres that can create something out of nothing or the list of dropkicks like mcdonnell and fitzhenry.

That try naqama scored in 05 was 2nd tackle off a scrum. Hodgo had made the tackle and as a result fitzy had shifted in one. If you recall Payten gave chase down the line and Elf meant naqama scored wide. The play was just smart play by st george off a scrum.

Are you wanting a return to the days of NBQ, O'Halloran or Fitzy in the centres. Mate be grateful we have Phats and Collis

 

[super_coach]

Ronald and the recruitment team are after back rowers and small ones at that,we need more back rowers till we have a club of dummy half running back rowers his job will not be done

 

[themanonthehill]

Not to mention all those halves they have running round in 4 lower grade teams (making give or take 8 halves) .. none of whom is deemed adequate to play 1/2 or 5/8 when Benji is injured. You could not honestly make up some of the sh*t we are witnessing

 

[Gus22]

Vicious,

If you think Whatuira is poor defender then you are a very bad judge. He is merely solid in attack, although a very good finisher. As a defender though he is outstanding. He can have a poor game in defence, but it is rare. The game last Monday was an abberation. Overall he has consistently been one of the best defensive three-quarters in the NRL over the past 5 years.

 

[Vicious]

Vicious,

If you think Whatuira is poor defender then you are a very bad judge. He is merely solid in attack, although a very good finisher. As a defender though he is outstanding. He can have a poor game in defence, but it is rare. The game last Monday was an abberation. Overall he has consistently been one of the best defensive three-quarters in the NRL over the past 5 years.

One of the best defensive centres in the NRL over the past 5 years, you must be kidding ???
He`s super fit and is an in your face style defender, but he`s a classic arm grabber.
Like you said, he`s an average attacker except for the fact that given half a chance he`s a very good finisher.
The bottom line is that i`m not saying he`s hopeless, he`s definately a very solid first grader, but in my opinion he`s just not good enough to warrant massive money under the NRL Salary Cap and the basis of my attacks on him is the fact that he always seems to be excluded from criticism on these forums no matter how bad he plays. He was worse than Shannon McDonnell on Monday night and he`s done very little in any game he`s played this season, yet while he escaped criticism, McDonnell has been labelled the player who cost us any chance of victory. I`m merely stating that if the bloke on 3-4 times the money that McDonnell is on was doing his job, he wouldn`t and shouldn`t of ever been put in the situations he was put in, right or wrong ???
***Not denying McDonnell has been ordinary and needed to be dropped, just stating there were other players including Whatuira and Fitzhenry who were just as bad if not worse who have escaped criticism!!!

 

[Vicious]

Old man ronald is too busy negotiating 3 year contracts for his son to worry about signing anyone from another club. Lawrence is class ... dunno if you meant i'd be adding him to the list of centres that can create something out of nothing or the list of dropkicks like mcdonnell and fitzhenry.

That try naqama scored in 05 was 2nd tackle off a scrum. Hodgo had made the tackle and as a result fitzy had shifted in one. If you recall Payten gave chase down the line and Elf meant naqama scored wide. The play was just smart play by st george off a scrum.

Are you wanting a return to the days of NBQ, O'Halloran or Fitzy in the centres. Mate be grateful we have Phats and Collis

I have to agree on the NBQ and MOH sentiments, they dead set make Fitzy look like Steve Renouf at his best!!!
And i was most certainly adding Chris Lawrence to the list of quality centres who will be able to creat something out of nothing.

 

[Gus22]

Originally Posted by Vicious
One of the best defensive centres in the NRL over the past 5 years, you must be kidding ???
He`s super fit and is an in your face style defender, but he`s a classic arm grabber.
Like you said, he`s an average attacker except for the fact that given half a chance he`s a very good finisher.
The bottom line is that i`m not saying he`s hopeless, he`s definately a very solid first grader, but in my opinion he`s just not good enough to warrant massive money under the NRL Salary Cap and the basis of my attacks on him is the fact that he always seems to be excluded from criticism on these forums no matter how bad he plays. He was worse than Shannon McDonnell on Monday night and he`s done very little in any game he`s played this season, yet while he escaped criticism, McDonnell has been labelled the player who cost us any chance of victory. I`m merely stating that if the bloke on 3-4 times the money that McDonnell is on was doing his job, he wouldn`t and shouldn`t of ever been put in the situations he was put in, right or wrong ???
***Not denying McDonnell has been ordinary and needed to be dropped, just stating there were other players including Whatuira and Fitzhenry who were just as bad if not worse who have escaped criticism!!!

You seem perplexed that I rate Whatuira a top notch defender. I'm equally perplexed that you disagree. I'm betting most observers would agree with my assessment. I've certainly heard so called experts such as Gould & Sterling praise Whatuira's defensive capabilities.

I don't know what is a reasonable sum to pay for his services, but considering the lack of quality three-quarters available on the open market, I would suggest that 250-300K would be the mark.

Also Whatuira was not worse than McDonnell against the Broncos. Whatuira was ineffective in attack & missed a few tackles, as was but McD with glaring blunders on top of that. For the record I would persist with McD. He needs a fair spell in PL though. Hopefully, next year we might see him play to his potential on a consistent basis.

 

[HOT028]

You seem perplexed that I rate Whatuira a top notch defender. I'm equally perplexed that you disagree. I'm betting most observers would agree with my assessment. I've certainly heard so called experts such as Gould & Sterling praise Whatuira's defensive capabilities.

I don't know what is a reasonable sum to pay for his services, but considering the lack of quality three-quarters available on the open market, I would suggest that 250-300K would be the mark.

Also Whatuira was not worse than McDonnell against the Broncos. Whatuira was ineffective in attack & missed a few tackles, as was but McD with glaring blunders on top of that. For the record I would persist with McD. He needs a fair spell in PL though. Hopefully, next year we might see him play to his potential on a consistent basis.

what about first before we get to see mcdonnell play to his potential on a consistent basis, we at least get ot see him play to his potential once.

 

[Eddie.]

One of the best defensive centres in the NRL over the past 5 years, you must be kidding ???
He`s super fit and is an in your face style defender, but he`s a classic arm grabber.
Like you said, he`s an average attacker except for the fact that given half a chance he`s a very good finisher.
The bottom line is that i`m not saying he`s hopeless, he`s definately a very solid first grader, but in my opinion he`s just not good enough to warrant massive money under the NRL Salary Cap and the basis of my attacks on him is the fact that he always seems to be excluded from criticism on these forums no matter how bad he plays. He was worse than Shannon McDonnell on Monday night and he`s done very little in any game he`s played this season, yet while he escaped criticism, McDonnell has been labelled the player who cost us any chance of victory. I`m merely stating that if the bloke on 3-4 times the money that McDonnell is on was doing his job, he wouldn`t and shouldn`t of ever been put in the situations he was put in, right or wrong ???
***Not denying McDonnell has been ordinary and needed to be dropped, just stating there were other players including Whatuira and Fitzhenry who were just as bad if not worse who have escaped criticism!!!

Maybe Whaturia escapes criticism to the same extent because he does not put in performances like that on a weekly basis.

The Tigers have won 3 of 20 odd games with Mcdonnell at fullback. Thats a damning stat. Of course im not saying he is responsibile for all those losses, however you can consider the frustration in Tigers fans when they see stats like that and the shocking performances of Mcdonnell.


As for your harping on about Matt Cooper, i can barely remember him doing anything of note against the Tigers. I do remember Paul Whaturia grabbing a hat trick against him though in Round 1 2006. I also remember Whaturia claiming the points in the Semi Final of 2005. I think your getting mass confusion between the Whaturia/Cooper duels and the one sided Elford, Gasnier duels.

 

[themanonthehill]

Hahahha. He did it against penriff in PL .. well for a half anyways.
And last yr at penriff park in first grade in a beaten side
And umm umm umm umm umm
Nothing further Your Honour

 

[themanonthehill]

Or the even more one sided Gasnier and Fitzhenry duals like at kogarah last yr when supercoach decided to shift the spastic in one and he played centre

 

[Marshall_magic]

Or the even more one sided Gasnier and Fitzhenry duals like at kogarah last yr when supercoach decided to shift the spastic in one and he played centre

I remember that game, it was Elford not Fitzhenry, one of the biggest baths in history, right up there with Tonga vs Hodges in 2004.

 

[bjm8]

Or the even more one sided Gasnier and Fitzhenry duals like at kogarah last yr when supercoach decided to shift the spastic in one and he played centre

That my freind was the day every wests tigers supporter regretted the fact that we bought Elford back from Souths for one more year. Definetly wasn't Fitzy.

 

[themanonthehill]

Have a look at the try in the second half where fitzy looked scared to touch gasnier.
Embarrassing.
Either way Phats is usually a very solid and capable defender

 

[Marshall_magic]

Have a look at the try in the second half where fitzy looked scared to touch gasnier.
Embarrassing.
Either way Phats is usually a very solid and capable defender

he was walking though Elfords tackle, it was barely Fitz's fault.